What is that a 75% nerf?
If that is the biomass value then the reactor is more efficient with just a single type.
Best way to use Biofuel?
- Thread starter wakafanykai123
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If that is the biomass value then the reactor is more efficient with just a single type.
Wot? It's 800mb now.
The reactor is 80mb for a single type...so...no. 180mb for two. You need 3 items just generate 300mb.
The biomass value for saplings in a fermenter will be 250 mB in 1.5
Translates to... 75 mB of biofuel per sapling in a still.
Ahh good point, but it translates to 125mB of biofuel since this whole discussion is about not limiting oneself to forestry. So, two items in the reactor.
Not as far as I know, but the phrase "since this whole discussion is about not limiting oneself to forestry" should have been a hint.
Ok accepting that though i would not call 125mb = 2 items in the reactor. The two item types would make 90mb each, so to get a per item average >= 125 you would want 6 item types to get 130mb biofuel per item.
What's the point in setting up engines when you can't burn anything yet?
I'm sorry but I am getting the feeling that you're just being very stubborn and refuse to admit that a lot of other people here have a point about the warm up of boilers not being a factor for most people. No one is saying you're wrong in that combustion engines have the benefit of not needing any warmup. I personally have a 'backup' system with biomass because of this: this system is self-contained and can be used to 'reboot' my system if somehow my boilers ever die.
The point people are making is that most people who go the biofuel route simply don't care about the warmup phase and only care about how many farms they need for a certain amount of boilers. You keep hammering on about the warmup part of efficiency while most people could not care less since most fuel sources for boilers are infinite.
I can burn things. The moment my fuel chain is done. That is why I set them up at the same time as the fuel chain. Your question is so nonsensical that I am not sure how to answer it. I could counter by saying "What is the point of setting up farms if you have nothing to burn the products yet?" It is silly on its face. You set things up when you need and can use them. You need your farms up 5 hours before your boiler. I need my farms up at the same time as my combustion engines.
Sure, you can alter your playstyle to reduce the actual impact of waiting 5 hours to start the boiler (by under-producing in your boiler so you do not need to wait 5 hours, going to do other things, etc). But that does not actually remove the disadvantage. Never once thus far have you presented a counter to the hard math that says for SSP more of a smaller solution is better. You just dance around the issue and keep saying you do not care about it. I am done responding to this argument. If you do not care about it, great, if you want to try to work around it, great. The math is still there though, Boilers are an inferior option until 15 hours of actual play time after the fuel chain is set up. If you wish to counter the actual math, feel free, I will respond to that. I have yet to see any argument that actually argues the math though.
You're funny
Have a cookie The math isn't wrong. The point is that that math, the calculations with the heat up time integrated, simply isn't relevant to most players. All people care about is how many heated-up boilers their fuel supply can sustain because by the time their boiler is ready they'll have a stock of fuel.
Funny how you keep writing about stuff that's completely irrelevant to the question the topic started posted.
You're funny
The math isn't wrong. The point is that that math, the calculations with the heat up time integrated, simply isn't relevant to most players. All people care about is how many heated-up boilers their fuel supply can sustain because by the time their boiler is ready they'll have a stock of fuel.
Funny how you keep writing about stuff that's completely irrelevant to the question the topic started posted.
Again my response is that if it takes you 5 hours to get a boiler ready... I do not know how that is even possible. EDIT: Also your statement is akin to "People have already decided they must use boilers, have adapted their playstyle already, and so your argument is not relevant"
Wanna math? OK, I have some. According to this calculator when 36HP is heated up it produces ~290K Mj per bucket of biofuel.
It says that the calculations are incorrect, so I did it by myself, using this data:
Let's calculate fuel usage for 36HP at 1000 Celsius:
Base Fuel Usage Per Tick (base) = ( (6.4 - numTanks * 0.08) / ( 16 LP or 8 HP ) ) * numTanks
Fuel/tick = (6.4 - 36*0.08)/8 * 36 = 15.84
One bucket of biofuel gives 32000 fuel units. So, it will last for 32000/15.84 ~ 2020 ticks
We know that it produces 144 MJ/tick (18 Industrial Steam engines), so, one bucket of fuel equals 144*2020 = 290880 MJ.
So, yeah. ~290K MJ/bucket.
According to this page, combustion engines produce 200K Mj per bucket of biofuel. You know what does it mean? That's the thing that called efficiency. It's not that kind of efficiency like HP boiler vs. LP boiler. That difference becomes less noticeable as the time goes by. This is different. To have the same MJ output you have to produce more fuel if you are using combustion engines.
And don't tell me about heatup stage. If I'm setting up a boiler, I want it to run forever. If extra fuel is the price I have to pay for long-term efficiency I'm on it. Even in SSP.
It says that the calculations are incorrect, so I did it by myself, using this data:
Let's calculate fuel usage for 36HP at 1000 Celsius:
Base Fuel Usage Per Tick (base) = ( (6.4 - numTanks * 0.08) / ( 16 LP or 8 HP ) ) * numTanks
Fuel/tick = (6.4 - 36*0.08)/8 * 36 = 15.84
One bucket of biofuel gives 32000 fuel units. So, it will last for 32000/15.84 ~ 2020 ticks
We know that it produces 144 MJ/tick (18 Industrial Steam engines), so, one bucket of fuel equals 144*2020 = 290880 MJ.
So, yeah. ~290K MJ/bucket.
According to this page, combustion engines produce 200K Mj per bucket of biofuel. You know what does it mean? That's the thing that called efficiency. It's not that kind of efficiency like HP boiler vs. LP boiler. That difference becomes less noticeable as the time goes by. This is different. To have the same MJ output you have to produce more fuel if you are using combustion engines.
And don't tell me about heatup stage. If I'm setting up a boiler, I want it to run forever. If extra fuel is the price I have to pay for long-term efficiency I'm on it. Even in SSP.
... And those 15 hours you are talking about is about 2-3 weeks of playing. If you play less, maybe you don't want boilers.
[EDIT]
Derp, it seems that calculations already were there in some form. So, the only question is that:
"Do you want to produce power for more than 15 in-game hours?"
Yes -> Boiler
No -> Combustion engines.
That's it. Nothing to argue about.
[EDIT]
Derp, it seems that calculations already were there in some form. So, the only question is that:
"Do you want to produce power for more than 15 in-game hours?"
Yes -> Boiler
No -> Combustion engines.
That's it. Nothing to argue about.
I think you just don't really understand the sort of playstyle that we're talking about.
When I say "I build the farms before I build the boilers", I mean I'm building a 2x2 chunk steve's carts farm with a full RP2 or BC pipe system feeding barrels that feed a fermenter that feeds stills, e.t.c. And when I'm talking about a power system, I don't just mean 5 or so combustion engines. I mean the kind of infrastructure required to produce 300 to 400MJs, including fuel input, on-off switches, power storage, e.t.c. If it doesn't take you 5 hours to design, plan out, gather materials, craft, and build that system, well you just click buttons faster than I do.
That playstyle wasn't decided by any decision to use boilers. That's just how I play the game normally. I like to build large systems and I like to automate stuff.
Look, here's the real reason why I'm still here arguing. In my SSP world I used to use engines for power. They had a large footprint and I was constantly running out of fuel to produce the power I needed. I already had a pretty large tree farm, and didn't really want to build another one. Then I switched to a boiler, ripped out the engines and got more power out of the same fuel production setup. Plus I had more room to put machines and didn't have a cramped basement any more. That's efficiency to me. I just don't want someone else to take your words at their face value, think boilers suck and have to build that extra farm for no good reason.
I get that different playstyles have different needs. The problem is that you seem to keep implying that only a very specialized playstyle would benefit from boilers and everyone else should go for engines. And that's just not true. Not even close.
*stepping over the thoroughly beaten dead horse of short-term efficiency*
what do you all DO with all those MJs & EUs you're generating? I have a really small biomass setup that produces vastly more biofuel than me and a partner consume. I regularly turn the system off because it seems silly just to fill tank after tank. I setup a mass fab last night just to watch the fuel burn, even though I don't really have a need for UUM.
So are you actually using the power you're generating? Is it just feeding the endless "how big can I make this?" cycle? Or is is going toward something useful?
what do you all DO with all those MJs & EUs you're generating? I have a really small biomass setup that produces vastly more biofuel than me and a partner consume. I regularly turn the system off because it seems silly just to fill tank after tank. I setup a mass fab last night just to watch the fuel burn, even though I don't really have a need for UUM.
So are you actually using the power you're generating? Is it just feeding the endless "how big can I make this?" cycle? Or is is going toward something useful?
I have uses for it.
Currently in my SMP build, I have 11 36HP boilers running off fuel. I use that to power:
1) a direwolf20 style mining well frame machine with 48 mining wells (I use 6 energy tesseracts to feed it power)
2) a full suite of advanced bee machines with 3 inoculators
3) matter fabricator
4) A full line of IC2 machines (including Gregtech Industrial Blast Furnace and Electrolyzer)
5) Another line of Forestry machines (I have about 7 centrifuges for my bee combs for example)
6) 10 MFR tree farms
7) Forestry multiblock farm
I'm planning more Matter Fabricators, and I'll need more boilers to power those. Although I might just give in and make a bunch of Ultimate Hybrid solar panels.