Announcing FTB Infinity Evolved, FTB Tweaks, and FTB Utilities.

Discussion in 'Feed the Beast News' started by Feed the Beast, Oct 17, 2015.

  1. Watchful11

    Watchful11 Forum Addict Team Member Third Party Pack Admin

    You have to make a controller or energy acceptor before you can do any AE. Another one is a decent cost for wireless. Just look at the quantum ring, you need 16 of those to get the two rings necessary for quantum, that's 16 energy acceptors.
     
  2. Madriker

    Madriker New Member

    It's not another one, it's another 8 for Wireless. The standard recipe for the wireless remote has not been changed. It requires a Dense Energy Cell, which requires 8 energy cells, which EACH require an Acceptor. A solution could be to change the energy cell recipe to accept a resonant energy cell frame instead of the Acceptor.
     
  3. Furigar

    Furigar New Member

    Can we get Immersive Engineering upgraded to 0.6 on the pack, it fixes a problem with the wiring not rendering on restart. Really a pain to see all your setup rendered inert :(
     
  4. DrummerBoyNo

    DrummerBoyNo New Member

    is this a low pc friendly pack. If it isnt could you allow the ability to chosse between a low pc friendly version and the regular version?
     
  5. Hambeau

    Hambeau Over-Achiever

    Which mods would you like them to remove to make it "low PC friendly"? Many recipes rely on multiple mods in "Expert" mode... Removing even one mod might collapse the entire concept of the pack.
     
  6. DrummerBoyNo

    DrummerBoyNo New Member

    true i just want to know if they can add mods that will let me play it at over 3FPS.
     
  7. Hambeau

    Hambeau Over-Achiever

    It's already got Fastcraft installed... You might try going through the thread to see if anyone's had luck with Optifine, although that apparently is a 50/50 proposition if it helps or makes things worse...
     
  8. Bril

    Bril New Member

    Been working my way thru the magic side of the pack. I really like how all four packs are blended together but you really need to look at the time length of some of the Runic Altar recipes. I am trying to make my Runic Matrix for a Thaumcraft Infusion Altar and this thing is going to take 30 minutes or more to finish...

    Still enjoying it but waiting around for something like this to finish isn't a challenge, it is just boring.
     
  9. Someone Else 37

    Someone Else 37 Forum Addict

    Do note that the rate at which the Runic Altar (and the Botanical Brewery, etc.) runs is directly tied to the rate at which you pump mana into it. With one basic spreader at a long distance from the Altar, yeah, some recipes might take a while. But if you upgrade your spreader, attach a Potency lens, situate it closer to to the Altar (directly adjacent or with a 1-block gap provides the best transfer rate), and/or just aim more spreaders at it, you'll see the time required decrease quite a lot. If you double the rate you're pumping mana in, the time it'll take to perform any operation will be halved.

    It's worth noting that any given spreader can only have one mana burst in the air at once. So, before the spreader can fire again, that burst has to either dissipate or hit something and be absorbed by it. Because of this, simply moving your altar closer to your mana pools may, if your altar is currently more than 10 blocks (or 15?) from the spreader(s) feeding it, increase the rate at which your altar can run by over an order of magnitude. That alone would reduce your 30-minute cook time to three minutes (unless, of course, your altar is already fairly close to the spreaders. In which case, upgrade them, add lenses, or just add more spreaders).
     
    DeathOfTime likes this.
  10. DeathOfTime

    DeathOfTime New Member

    I think it is worth noting that the keywords I saw were "waiting around for something like this to finish isn't a challenge, it is just boring". This is extremely true for me in real life. I don't like to wait on anything. I have been trying solutions to the issue for awhile now. The latest and most successful is "don't wait". I do something else while the time is ticking by. At home I find a task that is easily dropped, or I am able to complete in the given time frame. When going someplace where waiting is probable I take a book or game set with me.

    I have seen a lot of references to "things taking to much time" in posts dealing with infinity. I don't think the issue is the time it takes. I think the issue is the waiting. After all if you need 1,000,000,000 steel and have the iron, fuel, and automation all that is left is the time it takes to process. If it still seems like to much time there are plenty of alternatives to waiting. They usually involve more of something to speed it up. More blast funaces. More Runic alters. More automation. While you wait for that billion steel to finish why not add on one blast furnace after another. Instead of waiting for the only blast furnace you have to finish the job.

    Then there are the million little projects I forget to do while trying to not get sidetracked again while doing this one major project. While I am waiting on the next step of the major project to become available I can concentrate on one of the million other project I put to the side to get that one done.
     
  11. Mikhaila666

    Mikhaila666 New Member

    Time, or waiting, is a resource just like materials or the correct machine to process items. Adding time to a process is a bit different than just making something take more materials, or more steps. And then options to speed things up with either upgrades or with more machines also gives more options.

    So while i can understand people who don't like to wait for processing, it's equivalent to not wanting to mine, or not wanting to have multiple crafting steps. To make a modpack harder, there has to be something that well, makes it harder :)
     
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  12. NunoAgapito

    NunoAgapito New Member

    Time sinks are not a difficult setting. Making something require more resources or making resources scarce does not increase difficulty. Difficulty depends on external factors that are not controlled by the player. Since the player has no full control of a situation, it might become harder. Like fighting monsters with a non-well equipped character or execution a process that has a lot of random variables that can be attenuated but never fully mitigated. That is difficulty.

    Resources scarcity,time consuming tasks or extra steps on a task, by itself is not difficulty since the player is still in control of the situation. He will just need more time to complete them but he is still in control. Unless these resources or tasks have random parameters not controlled by the player.

    The wrong mix of the two concepts might be the biggest reason of all the protests with this pack.

    While the magic path might actually be harder, since magic involves some factors that the player cannot fully control the tech path has no difficulty at all. And a good chunk of players usually do not care about magic. They only do the essential to get the OP trinkets, which is not possible on this pack since they are gated very deep. So, not doing magic and only having grindy tech, yes the pack becomes a grind festival and they complain.

    Honestly, its no one fault and everyone. I blame the 'immediate and easy delivery of results' culture that we got used the last couple years where people got used to press button and get bacon. I also blame the popular culture of 'being the best if you are the first' where players want to rush games just to brag they finished it first. Some players expected a hard pack to play for a couple days, conquer all the challenges, brag about it and move on to the next thing. But, they found a pack that takes weeks or even months to finish and 'no one has time for that'.

    In the end, its the usual 'internet thing'. Couple players complain and make a lot of noise making it look like everyone is not happy but they are just a minority. The majority is happy and usually doesnt say anything, so the noise of the unsatisfied might seem bigger. On this pack this might be even more true, since the majority of the happy players are not wasting time on forums when there is so much to do on the pack :p
     
    RedBoss and Hambeau like this.
  13. Mikhaila666

    Mikhaila666 New Member

    Well, until it's time to go to work on Monday and you decide reading forums and sucking down coffee is needed. :) Maybe due to playing Evolved until 3am.

    I'll argue some of your thoughts on difficulty, but not much. As with many things, we have multiple definitions for a word, and shades of gray with each definition. (I love Geometry, an exact definition of terms. Made things simpler than language.)

    I think that having to grind things out is definitely a form of difficulty, even if the player controls it all. I was totally in control of my game last night, and then decided i'd rather start bees, go mining, and run around the world, rather than bang my head against botania some more. (A mod i haven't done until now.) My choice in some ways. I play to have fun. Wasn't having fun, did something else. Found it 'difficult' to keep working with flowers.

    The things not in a players control, even as small as zombies attacking while mining, as you mentioned, a more fun route. They can also mix nicely with other non-random factors. Personally, i'd have made the mobs much harder, and lowered ore rates significantly, and upped power needs on many things. For the player that sits and watches a battery charge, yes, this is boring. But i think the pack has an advantage in you need to do 12 things at once. So while doing some other things, your ores process, power charges up batteries, bees mutate, etc.

    And yes, magic is much harder than tech. Kudos and Curses to whoever put those recipes together.

    We've had a few people on the server rushing things, putting in a large number of hours and working any exploit they can figure out. That's the game they seem to love. Others. myself included, want to take it a bit slower, and build huge things, put in railroads, etc. This can be frustrating at times on a server. One group is "look at fast we are going" while building their crappy bases. They get frustrated when not all of us care. Meanwhile, slower builders have to listen to the race going on, and 12 year olds bragging about who has the most million ingots of gold in their ME system. Evolved is a bit nicer than regular infinity since it has some frustration for everyone at all levels.

    The concept of one modpack with different settings to be brilliant. I just want another flavor with more agressive fauna, and less resources so you have to deal with the critters more.

    The most fun i ever had in minecraft was the old MiningDead server. Try doing IC2 when the only way to get rubber was hunt creepers, who only spawn in caves below level 30. :)

    I'm debating working on project for a more frustrating version of evolved with a custom map. I love the idea of a player just loading infinity to play, but it's tough to ramp things up just with recipes and configs. What I'm thinking of is using a few plugins for building a world with the the old Cityworld map, surrounded by a wasteland, and a plugin to ramp up the mobs. Ideally would like to use lycanites mod, since the mobs and events are so fun, but not possible with the restriction of keeping things to normal infinity download for players. I think a world less rich in resources and a few tweaks to recipes could make for a much more challenging version of Infinity.

    I'd love to see infinity add a few more mods to the pack, used in different flavors of the pack, and turned off entirely in others.
     
    Hambeau likes this.
  14. Hambeau

    Hambeau Over-Achiever

    I like this definition... "Infinity Evolved: Spreading frustration equally to all" :D
     
  15. Krhymez

    Krhymez New Member

    I kinda wish Iguana Tweaks with in Evolved.
    Not the Tool leveling part of it... But the Repair on the go and ability to swap out tool parts.
     
  16. Krhymez

    Krhymez New Member

    If you do make a server like this... let me know.
    The idea of having a City the surrounded by wasteland (hope desert and oil fields)
     
  17. keybounce

    keybounce New Member

    Moving a comment from the "18 hours into the pack, we gave up" thread where it does not belong.

    In response to my complaint about the changes and lack of documentation, Watchful said,
    So lets look back, at this official thread, and the other one for a moment:

    So right now, we have the official statements: Make you use mods you don't know, with different recipes so that the normal guides are broken.

    Note: *need* to build.

    So there is no choices. To get X, you are railroaded into A, B, and C, and everything that comes before them.

    And here we find that the pack was released before the documentation is finished and ready. "Currently working on the getting started guide that *will be* ..."

    I do not have the time to play, or even test, or even look at, every single pack. I honestly have no idea how Jaded manages to test/play with every single mod that is published. I don't even know if she keeps up with that anymore.

    I have to go by what is published in the descriptions of the mods. When I see something that looks like it might be interesting, and the only thing I'm told is "Download it, and play with it, and try it for yourself", the answer is simple: No. There isn't enough time in my life for that. I have other things to do that are more important to me.

    In this case, I see a pack that says "We are changing everything, and working on a guide". I see posts from people saying "We can't figure out X". I see posts from people saying "Y is super-expensive". And the responses are sometimes as simple as "You're supposed to use Z instead of Y".

    All of which indicate that any guide presented with this pack is inadequate.

    ---

    Next, I commented about realism in builds, and not making mob farms or abusing game mechanics that make no sense.

    Because it's a game.
    Because it's a game about building and reshaping the world.
    Because a realistic "build a giant building" would take a year to do, and this was supposed to be faster -- that's part of what makes it a game, the scale changing.
    And because the player is a demi-god. Not a full god (unless you're in creative).

    ---

    Pick-axe/Dolly/etc:
    People complained about the pick-axe being used to pick things up. People complained about the pick-axe breaking things instead of picking them up. Etc.

    The dolly gets a major cost increase here (apparently because it can freely move Ic2 machines with no risks), and there are other things that can be used to move chests if you know of them.

    Folks, it's a game where the base game said "You use a pick-axe to pick up stuff in the world". Whether it's a furnace, a jute-box, stairs, iron doors, etc -- pick-axes are used to pick up stuff that is placed in the world, as well as mining raw resources.

    Does it make sense? Should you have special wrenches? Should you have special dollies to pick up machines? Should you need A, or B, to pick up machine X, or Y?

    Vanilla gave us the strange rule: Picks both break raw blocks (Stone, non-metal resources blocks), and pick up most non-wood player-made blocks. Metal resources -- iron and gold -- are the oddballs.

    Yes, in the real world, you use straps, dollies, wheeled carriers, etc.
    In Minecraft, you don't.

    Now, freely moving things with big inventories (like chests) lets you bypass all inventory restrictions. Dollies and chest transporters give you a debuff for your trouble, as a tradeoff. Putting them inside another inventory such as a bag bypasses that. These are abuse points.

    ---

    Yep.

    I "live" in a world where the undead roam the world, where strange mobile plants will attempt to get close and explode.

    I live in a world where death could be cheap, but I try very, very hard to avoid dying. I tend to stay in the low single-digit life counts on servers even when the other players are aiming for 100.

    I live in a world with magic portals that take me to strange worlds where the laws of physics just differ. Heck, the volcanic atmosphere in the sealed nether should be instantly fatal. Instead, it's like a vacation on Mustafar.

    And I live in a world where (or, at least, if I had kept any part of a world from 1.1) mountains can float in the air just like Pandora.

    I live in a world where monsters exist. But the simulation of the world has some assumptions and "game play" rules to avoid over-taxing the computer. Monsters only stay around when they are near me. Monsters have rules for where they can spawn, rules that are meant to simulate "They spawn in unclaimed, dark caves and wild areas; they spawn at night; etc."

    There is no good reason to say "They will spawn in a closed room you have made". But the game says "I will try to find something that might be a cave near you", and you are saying " I'm going to make something that isn't a cave, but looks close enough to a cave to spawn, but is 100% booby-trapped and under my control".

    That is just abusing the game rules; abusing the approximations to the simulation of a consistent world.
     
    Henry Link and dragon_fang101 like this.
  18. McJty

    McJty Over-Achiever Mod Developer

    Minecraft is a sandbox game. Mods make it even more of a sandbox game. There are no set rules. We are free to change the rules how we want. That's what mod developers do. Players are then free to pick and chose the mods that fit their play style. Modpack developers are free to group and reconfigure mods so that it fits the theme of the modpack.

    There is no abuse here because the rules are meant to be changed. It is, after all, a sandbox game.
     
    DeathOfTime, Watchful11 and BMB78 like this.
  19. NunoAgapito

    NunoAgapito New Member

    Yes, you 'live' in a world with your own set of rules and your own simulation of your 'vision of reality'. Good for you. No one is criticizing it. After all, its a sandbox game and everyone plays their own style.

    Now, respect the other players, that 'live' on their own world with their own set of rules that you do not agree with. And if that is not enough, you also not have the right to criticize others views of reality simulation when you dont even tried them. You have no kind of authority to speak about something when you dont have knowledge or experience about. You are not obligated to learn and try everything, after all, the day only has 24 hours and there is this thing called real life. But that is not an excuse that allows you give your opinions on matters you have no knowledge. Want to give an opinion, first learn about it. If you dont want or cant do it, than its better to just not comment.

    Respect the right of others having a different view of what this 'world' should be. Just because you do not agree with this set of rules does not mean they are wrong. I also think your world view is boring and un-interesting but I am not criticizing it and forcing you to change it!

    Some people criticizing that a dolly recipe might be a little hard, is an acceptable critic. If they are right or wrong its another question. It was explained the multiple reasons to be that way. And I think, it was accepted and understood the why, except for you. You transformed this little critic on a recipe in a full bash about how the pack is just so out of context of your 'reality' of a MC world and that is just plain stupid and totally disrespectful for the other players and their right to play the game the way the see it.

    I keep seeing the argument 'MC is a sandbox where we can make our own set of rules and no one should force on us a set of rules' being used against mod and pack makers when they restrict something on a pack or on a mod. But these people fail to realize they are criticizing themselves since they are trying to force a set of rules on the world the mod/pack maker envisions. You player, have the liberty to accept use this set of rules. Do not agree, move on to something different. You are free to just choose what you want. You are not forced to accept them. And you have no right to force the maker to change them the same way he does not force to play with only his set of rules.

    So... let just move on. I will keep happily playing on my Infinity: Expert mode that already has a couple hundreds hours invested and you go back to your.... 1.2.3 unmodded world?
     
    DeathOfTime likes this.
  20. dragon_fang101

    dragon_fang101 New Member

    I think i soon may witness my first flame war.
     
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