I am very conflicted about the mods that are making it onto forgecraft1. On the one hand they are the mods I moved to 1.8.9 to avoid. On the other, they seem to have all been rewritten to be less objectionable.
1.8: what is holding you back?
- Thread starter ShneekeyTheLost
- Start date
I am very conflicted about the mods that are making it onto forgecraft1. On the one hand they are the mods I moved to 1.8.9 to avoid. On the other, they seem to have all been rewritten to be less objectionable.
What is holding me back, personally, is that I don't like vanilla 1.8. And as such, modding it is adding lipstick to a pig. From what I've seen of 1.9, it's even worse for me in that regard.
Or rather: it is not that it is worse, period. It's that Minecraft did not go in the direction that I was hoping it would go in.
I saw Minecraft as a sandbox game. A fledgling one, true, but one which had potential. Effectively: here are your tools and a set of basic interactions, now go to town. Over time we'll add new tools and interactions, and rarely modify old ones.
It has become apparent that that is not the direction MC went. Instead it's "here are your tools and the proscribed ways to use them, do not try to deviate lest they be taken from you". Some people enjoy that sort of gameplay. I am not one of them.
So: my view of 1.8.
There are a bunch of minor tweaks that 1.8 adds, most of which I don't use (command block things, etc.). As such, I appreciate them, but they are not must-haves.
The additional blocks without additional inventory space exasperates the problem that modded already has. And, for modded players, the blocks I wanted were mostly backported to 1.7 anyways.
The reducedDebugInfo gamerule is not well thought through. (Sending game information to clients and then asking them nicely to not display it?)
Endermites are "yet another half-baked feature". They could be a neat addition, if someone had actually put a few more minutes thought into them. I've been on the lookout for a mod that does, but haven't seen any as of yet.
Ditto Alex? - especially given the whole "random and unchangable in offline mode" thing. A minor tweak(allowing clients to choose between Alex or Steve for offline mode) would have sufficed.
Guardians causing mining fatigue to "force" you to play a certain way is a) ineffective (milk, tnt, etc), and b) cheesy.
Barrier blocks, command blocks, action bar messages, adventure mode, repairing limitations, and book copying restrictions, are other examples of this. Adding tools to force players to play certain ways. The difference between seeing that people do not take the route you intended them to take because other alternatives are better and tweaking things to make the intended route viable, and using a sledgehammer to block all routes but the one you want them to take. For some people that can be fun. I am not one of those people.
Banners are neat in some ways; banners are neat additions to a game, but are not well-suited for the game I was hoping Minecraft was going to turn out to be. Ditto rabbits (and horses, although that was a while back now).
Armor stands... Most of what you can do with armor stands you can only do via command blocks. Yay?
The food situation in 1.8 makes absolutely no sense, "balance"-wise. Among other things: aside from villager trading pork is worse than beef (same # dropped, less food value, and cows also drop leather.)
Slime blocks are neat, but I don't understand why Minecraft alternates between trying to nerf any semblance of automation and adding more tools to enable people to do so. They also have weird mechanics / things that I can't even tell were originally bugs or features.
Speaking of trying to nerf any semblance of automation, the villager revamp is frustrating. People wonder why people lose interest in the game when every time someone shows off something absurdly complex and cool it gets nerfed into the ground. This is also applicable to modded, by the way.
The anvil exponential increase for repair is frustrating, while not adding much of anything in the way of actual gameplay. Especially given it creates really unintuitive results (different numbers of times an item can be repaired based on the ordering of combining the enchanted books used to create it, for instance.)
I could do a similar breakdown of MC 1.9.
Oh, and MC 1.9 is substantially worse performance-wise for me than 1.7. MC 1.8 is even worse.
In MC 1.9, if I load up a new world in creative, look straight down in creative, hover, and go straight forward (not sprinting), it can't even keep up loading the chunk directly below me.
In 1.7.10 I have no such issues. And 1.6 is better yet.
If there was a legal way to port / backport between MC versions, I would have done so long ago. Pick a version before they bought into the whole "GC is free" mindset, or potentially after and "just" remove the worst of it, and pull together the parts that I enjoyed. Minecarts being their current speed on wooden rails, and (much) faster on iron rails. Furnace minecarts that actually work, and can actually be interacted with. Consistency across animals - either horse breeding made to not be a waste of time, or each breed of horse just have a specific set of stats. Revert lava to decay slowly, although perhaps not quite as slowly as it used to. Etc. Would everyone enjoy it? No. But I would.
But the legal hoops to jump through for something like this are too much for me alone. (Read: you would have to dump every jar in a folder and combine them at runtime only, not modifying anything directly. And even then things could get hairy.)
Or rather: it is not that it is worse, period. It's that Minecraft did not go in the direction that I was hoping it would go in.
I saw Minecraft as a sandbox game. A fledgling one, true, but one which had potential. Effectively: here are your tools and a set of basic interactions, now go to town. Over time we'll add new tools and interactions, and rarely modify old ones.
It has become apparent that that is not the direction MC went. Instead it's "here are your tools and the proscribed ways to use them, do not try to deviate lest they be taken from you". Some people enjoy that sort of gameplay. I am not one of them.
So: my view of 1.8.
There are a bunch of minor tweaks that 1.8 adds, most of which I don't use (command block things, etc.). As such, I appreciate them, but they are not must-haves.
The additional blocks without additional inventory space exasperates the problem that modded already has. And, for modded players, the blocks I wanted were mostly backported to 1.7 anyways.
The reducedDebugInfo gamerule is not well thought through. (Sending game information to clients and then asking them nicely to not display it?)
Endermites are "yet another half-baked feature". They could be a neat addition, if someone had actually put a few more minutes thought into them. I've been on the lookout for a mod that does, but haven't seen any as of yet.
Ditto Alex? - especially given the whole "random and unchangable in offline mode" thing. A minor tweak(allowing clients to choose between Alex or Steve for offline mode) would have sufficed.
Guardians causing mining fatigue to "force" you to play a certain way is a) ineffective (milk, tnt, etc), and b) cheesy.
Barrier blocks, command blocks, action bar messages, adventure mode, repairing limitations, and book copying restrictions, are other examples of this. Adding tools to force players to play certain ways. The difference between seeing that people do not take the route you intended them to take because other alternatives are better and tweaking things to make the intended route viable, and using a sledgehammer to block all routes but the one you want them to take. For some people that can be fun. I am not one of those people.
Banners are neat in some ways; banners are neat additions to a game, but are not well-suited for the game I was hoping Minecraft was going to turn out to be. Ditto rabbits (and horses, although that was a while back now).
Armor stands... Most of what you can do with armor stands you can only do via command blocks. Yay?
The food situation in 1.8 makes absolutely no sense, "balance"-wise. Among other things: aside from villager trading pork is worse than beef (same # dropped, less food value, and cows also drop leather.)
Slime blocks are neat, but I don't understand why Minecraft alternates between trying to nerf any semblance of automation and adding more tools to enable people to do so. They also have weird mechanics / things that I can't even tell were originally bugs or features.
Speaking of trying to nerf any semblance of automation, the villager revamp is frustrating. People wonder why people lose interest in the game when every time someone shows off something absurdly complex and cool it gets nerfed into the ground. This is also applicable to modded, by the way.
The anvil exponential increase for repair is frustrating, while not adding much of anything in the way of actual gameplay. Especially given it creates really unintuitive results (different numbers of times an item can be repaired based on the ordering of combining the enchanted books used to create it, for instance.)
I could do a similar breakdown of MC 1.9.
Oh, and MC 1.9 is substantially worse performance-wise for me than 1.7. MC 1.8 is even worse.
In MC 1.9, if I load up a new world in creative, look straight down in creative, hover, and go straight forward (not sprinting), it can't even keep up loading the chunk directly below me.
In 1.7.10 I have no such issues. And 1.6 is better yet.
If there was a legal way to port / backport between MC versions, I would have done so long ago. Pick a version before they bought into the whole "GC is free" mindset, or potentially after and "just" remove the worst of it, and pull together the parts that I enjoyed. Minecarts being their current speed on wooden rails, and (much) faster on iron rails. Furnace minecarts that actually work, and can actually be interacted with. Consistency across animals - either horse breeding made to not be a waste of time, or each breed of horse just have a specific set of stats. Revert lava to decay slowly, although perhaps not quite as slowly as it used to. Etc. Would everyone enjoy it? No. But I would.
But the legal hoops to jump through for something like this are too much for me alone. (Read: you would have to dump every jar in a folder and combine them at runtime only, not modifying anything directly. And even then things could get hairy.)
To top it all, they still havn't added the most logical gamemode at all: A kid friendly "quasi" survival.
I have kids below 10 - I *know* they desperately want to partake in the "keeping house" part of survival minecraft. They want to craft. They want to collect. They want to ride horses and use tools and farm.
They don't want to burn to death, starve to death, fall to death, get murdered to death or drown to death. They don't want creepers to blow their stuff up. They are not ready for that at that age. They ARE ready for something thats more of a game than creative mode. Where an inadvertent left click destroys their fledgling build.
So I must agree. Mojang are being twits. Elder Guardians are the gateway to getting a frikkin piece of sponge? We need to finish the end to get a wing that lets us glide? Have they not looked at the stuff going on in modded minecraft at all? All the cool things "a bit" more imagination could bring the world?
Twilight Forest represents the efforts of essentially one individual, and it far outreaches the scope of anything Mojang has delivered over that timeframe.
Notch, swimming in his pool of money, despairing how lonely he is, the remaining Mojan Employees who are driving the development of Minecraft, should all be embarassed at how savagely they have been eclipsed by mods like Twilight Forest, or Thaumcraft. How little they have added to the builders palette for an ostensibly building game, in the face of mods like Chisel 2. The default minecraft blocks are still only good for a medieval look.
I have kids below 10 - I *know* they desperately want to partake in the "keeping house" part of survival minecraft. They want to craft. They want to collect. They want to ride horses and use tools and farm.
They don't want to burn to death, starve to death, fall to death, get murdered to death or drown to death. They don't want creepers to blow their stuff up. They are not ready for that at that age. They ARE ready for something thats more of a game than creative mode. Where an inadvertent left click destroys their fledgling build.
So I must agree. Mojang are being twits. Elder Guardians are the gateway to getting a frikkin piece of sponge? We need to finish the end to get a wing that lets us glide? Have they not looked at the stuff going on in modded minecraft at all? All the cool things "a bit" more imagination could bring the world?
Twilight Forest represents the efforts of essentially one individual, and it far outreaches the scope of anything Mojang has delivered over that timeframe.
Notch, swimming in his pool of money, despairing how lonely he is, the remaining Mojan Employees who are driving the development of Minecraft, should all be embarassed at how savagely they have been eclipsed by mods like Twilight Forest, or Thaumcraft. How little they have added to the builders palette for an ostensibly building game, in the face of mods like Chisel 2. The default minecraft blocks are still only good for a medieval look.
Well I think the nail in the coffin for 1.8 just arrived. There is a download for forge 1.9 now.
I'm kinda bummed out; I keep hearing conflicting stories about the performance of 1.8 and 1.9 vs 1.7.
I have no experience with 1.9 yet (just started porting to it) but for me 1.8 performance is way better then 1.7 performance (even with CoFHTweaks or FastCraft on 1.7)
MC 1.8 and 1.9 add performance increases in some areas, but performance decreases in other areas. In particular, stutters due to GC / etc (and even the pauseless GCs have performance decreases while they run - and G1 takes long enough to pause to do new gen collections to often cause a stutter!) matter when they add enough overhead to cause you to miss a frame deadline. If you have enough headroom that that doesn't happen, MC 1.9 is generally better. If you don't, have "fun".
Unfortunately, what it means in practice is that, generally speaking, lower-end computers get worse, and higher-end computers get better.
Let's see. In addition to most of what I said about 1.8:
More options for mapmakers. Somewhere between irrelevant and potentially-detrimental for me (should servers decide to use them, for instance.)
More tweaks which are interesting, but not exactly essential (subtitles, world selection screen, etc).
Combat mechanics. Oh dear, combat mechanics. We've gone from beta, where you bashed at each other and juggled inventory until you ran out of health regens due to unstackable items to... 1.9 where you bash at each other and juggle inventory until you run out of health regens due to unstackable items.
And given the choice, I prefer beta's implementation. Or rather, what I wish it was would be as follows: you can swing as fast as you like, but each swing damages your sword slightly (Just enough so that spam clicking rapidly degrades a sword) (a hit degrades it more than a miss), and there is a short invincibility that affects damage only (so you can still knock players back), and only acts as a reduction (so if you get hit for a 1/2 a heart and then 10 hearts you still take 10 hearts of damage - 1/2 from the first hit and 10 - 1/2 = 9 1/2 hearts from the second). Ideally, I would want a short slight reduction to range after a swing as well. Not much, just enough to prevent "knockback auras" from being the be-all and end-all.
Dual-wielding isn't entirely thought through, although it's a relatively minor matter.
Shields are annoying, especially when watching video. Takes up too much of the screen. And people will complain about resource packs to fix it being hacks.
Treasure enchantments... I can't figure out why you'd do that. If it's to force players to do other things, it doesn't work well due to the inclusion of fishing.
Mending... Why would you have mending and yet still block repairs on anvils?
The end stuff... I feel neutral about. I liked the end being an island alone in a void. If you're going to introduce multiple dragon fights, do so by adding new islands a million blocks away or something. Like the inverse of the nether - one block in the overworld is 1000 in the end or something.
I enjoy the water splash potion, although using gunpowder to craft something to put out fires seems silly. (Although I am aware that it is actually semi-realistic)
The arrow stuff... why would you gate that behind lingering potions? Especially for servers...
I really dislike the alternate block toggle being removed.
The elytra... among other things the crawling stuff is silly.
Health regen just brings us further toward the bad parts of beta combat.
Mob spawning changes are a plus.
The nether portal invulnerability is a hack.
The brewing stand change feels like a demand to return to the nether. I would prefer a request. Again: inconsistency, considering that nether wart used to only grow in the nether but now can grow in the overworld.
I enjoy being able to fill buckets from cauldrons. Especially useful for skyblock / puzzle maps.
I don't like the new sounds, generally speaking, although I am well aware that is because I am used to the old sounds. As this can be changed, it's not too much of an issue - although it has made watching videos somewhat painful.
Cobwebs... I liked the silk touch-only thing. Although I can understand why they changed it.
I enjoy the tripwire change.
I dislike the cooldown on ender pearls. Makes them much less useful for panicmode "I've fallen and will die" situations, while not actually fixing the problem it was intended to solve.
I don't like the heart particles on hitting mobs.
The boat changes... Better than before in most ways, but the "unable to ride upriver" bit is absurd. I don't mind too much not being able to ride up a waterfall. But having a boat sink to the bottom of the ocean because of an 1/8th slope is absurd. Especially given it's entirely made out of oak/birch/etc wood (which all float).
And that's not getting into the actual bugs.
@Chris Becke: I totally feel you. I have cousins who don't enjoy getting defeated by mobs, or dying when it means losing hard earned goodies. I don't like that for that matter. My suggestion has always been a custom peaceful server with a protected spawn and a peaceful table. Or mob griefing turned off and easy mod. But something that adds graves.
gamerule keepInventory certainly helps, but, kids being kids they appreciate the macabre - they love the Von Doom Craft resource pack which makes Zombies look terrifying frankly. To a six year old Terrifying Zombies are hilarious if they aren't actually attacking.
Hmm, from what I'm hearing here, and what I've seen on Forgecraft, I'm sticking to 1.7.10. None of the new mods or the changes to existing mods grab my interest, and NOTHING in MC 1.8 or 1.9 is interesting to me. I'll just stick to making my 1.7.10 into the game I want to play.
Celestialphoenix
Too Much Free Time
The Elytra looks pretty interesting- not so much for the gliding, but rather the dynamic flight.
If you tell me you've never flown down a ravine at breakneck speed pretending to the Dambusters I know you're lying
Hopefully this mean actually flying around with jetpacks, rather than walking through the air.
If you tell me you've never flown down a ravine at breakneck speed pretending to the Dambusters I know you're lying
As bad as that sounds, it's what Forge does now. It was only 1.6 that it stopped shipping base classes and did everything at runtime, but it's perfectly possible to copy the way it does it for older versions. As for backporting the content, you'd have to re-write it yourself for what ever version you picked but it too would be possible. If you look at it really, what Better than Wolves does is most of what you said, it's still on 1.5 and things are added to it which FlowerChild likes, and it's not been sued by Mojang. The only real issue with your idea is that it needs someone to invest the time to do it.
Celestialphoenix
Too Much Free Time
Also worth noting a lot of 1.8 and 1.9 blocks were backported by 1.7 era mods.
As far as I know the only things you cant do involve Mojang capes, selling Mojang's content, and /or creating a stand-alone versions of MC.
The capes end up feeling kind of MEH after Jetpack + Hang Glider has been a thing since 1.4.7. (MPS glider wings.)
You might not need all of them. The original Tekkit pack had only 25 mods.I started 1.8.9 modded world with only 17 mods. I would be pleased if Forestry,Growthcraft,ExUtils,Immersive Engineering get updated now,
but sadly its only a dream,who knows how long it will take them to transfer to 1.8...
And on 1.7, if I don't want some of the 1.8 content (like the extra stone types that help clog your inventory when mining) I can remove that mod.
The original Tekkit pack was also massively more stable and the 25 mods were much more content filled than what 25 mods would get you now. Comparing the size of RedPower and IndustrialCraft to that of EnderIO and CoFH Core-Lib-TF-TE-TD at the very least. (And CoFH Co aren't even updated).
Celestialphoenix
Too Much Free Time
Thats not a fair count as the colloquial meaning of "mod" has changed significantly between then and now.
The original mod list doesn't mention the various library and API files needed to run the mods. (apart from Immibis core)
Where as the mod counter in our modern packs counts the above as "mods".
If you define 'mod' by the same criteria for then and now- you'll get a similar mileage out of your 'content per number of mods'
I will certainly agree with the stability issues.
The original mod list doesn't mention the various library and API files needed to run the mods. (apart from Immibis core)
Where as the mod counter in our modern packs counts the above as "mods".
Running with just the default Forge package installed counts as 3 "mods".
It also seems to count the various mod modules as individual mods- where as that 25 counts it as one.Adding just Buildcraft to the pack brings the count up to 10 "mods" even though you're only playing 1 "mod".
If you define 'mod' by the same criteria for then and now- you'll get a similar mileage out of your 'content per number of mods'
I will certainly agree with the stability issues.
Far, far few crashes back then.
Epic performance with TPS and FPS.
And the pack booted in under a minute.
Epic performance with TPS and FPS.
And the pack booted in under a minute.
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I just booted it up (which it is refreshing quick), and the main menu says 41. That's remembering both RedPower and Buildcraft add about 15 together to that.
It hasn't changed, a mod is still in effect just a jar (or zip if they're old) that modifies the game in some way when it's loaded.
I disagree, the mod density has been reduced as more mods have core mods and become fragmented. CoFH is a prime example of this. Once it was just 1 mod, now to get the equivalent you need 5.