[1.7.10] The Ferret Business [WIP][BQ + HQM, 500+ Quests][v 0.2.6]

[bremmon]

The rationale behind using this specific chunkloader is, at the time, I wanted a chunkloader that costed fuel (which negates chicken chunks, which I prefer not to use anyways), but was reasonable in its fuel requirements or was customizable (which means the MFR chunkloader is out).

Some of the responses I've seen to the survey, though, I may or may not change this.

That's fine. My main concern was PAYING to use a chunk loader. I understand the reason for them, but paying to keep one going? I don't see the rationale behind that. I am guessing there are debates elsewhere. Now that I know how to configure need for fuel off, I am fine with what is in here currently. They seem to work just as well as others. Though I detest MFR loaders!

Awesome job on the modpack. So far the most stable one my son and I have played

 

[Caigan]

THE FERRET BUSINESS SUPPLEMENTARY SURVEY 1
Okay, I would like opinions on specific mods from the survey. These concern ones with little to no FAVORITE votes, but a bigger number of DISLIKE, DON'T PLAY, and GET RID OF votes.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/193NfFobXFHfXZ8opDJfkCpFj7B3rWUHN7-e4lzKe4OA/viewform

Whether I remove the mods or not is still up to me, but I just want a general idea of what folks think.

 

[bremmon]

Ok. . . other question. . . Deco craft:

EDIT: Just deleted all my text here intentionally as I have discovered the DECO BENCH for crafting these items. Didn't know about the deco bench.

 

[Nettehlol]

Chunkloader (can't recall the mod it comes from) that Infinity has is pretty nice.

Btw isn't Poppet Shelf working like one for no cost?

 

[DoYouMined]

Just wondering, is there any way I can re-enable squid spawning (Just for my personal use)? I think my computer can handle it, and I'm sick of crafting screen mdules (RFTools) without ink sacs available.

EDIT: To elaborate, ink sacs are specifically required for every module. For some reason, Ore Dictionary isn't working for it, the Oredictinificator from Mekanism won't accept "dyeBlack", and the storage drawer conversions don't work. This means I have to use the recipe added to the pack (other black dye + rotten flesh + water bottle), which consumes the bottle every time. If it gave me the bottle back, I would be fine with it.

 

[Nettehlol]

On the subject of Big Reactors, I don't think that it requires much nerfing, if any. The issue seems to be that old case of people digging down and mining diamonds on day 1 in vanilla. If you know the mods, sure you can get unlimited RF/tick and resources.

This pack doesn't seem to be based on making resources/food/inventory scarce, and the options we have fit well with that balance. I mean, we can make an Enderium sword within minutes of spawning, you can get an almost unlimited inventory space by killing one mob and making a Spectre Key, there are 25+ gold gravel mounds everywhere. If you want resources, there's a ton of them right there. If you make the effort to build the crazy reactors Nettehlol did, you deserve the rewards imo.

The problem with Big Reactors is how crazy efficient they are.. ore veins are quite common and relatively large, it is too easy to build them of bigger sizes and here the problem comes - the bigger they are the more imbalanced they go in terms of resources spent vs rf/t gain.

For example: 3x3x3 to 3x3x4 is 260~rf/t to 560 rf/t (DOUBLE rf/t for just adding 1 layer in height). 3x3x3 is around ~40 iron, ~40 coal, 1 Diamond and some Yellorium, which is 260rf/t. 4x4x4 (with 4 control rods) is ~120 iron~, ~100 coal and ~30 yellorium and it produces nearly 2,000 rf/t, 9x the energy produced for just adding a stack of iron and coal.
You don't need to bother with making farms, getting lava, making mob farms to power your gens.. just put in some yellorium, which is plenty to be found. You don't need to bother with how wasteful your reactor is going to be, as we have RFTools to solve this "issue".

I can maybe suggest adding in roster of choice "Solar Expansion", which adds Solar Panels. Ultimate Panel costs quite a fortune to make.

 

[DoYouMined]

I can maybe suggest adding in roster of choice "Solar Expansion", which adds Solar Panels.

The pack already has several solar panels available, why add this one? Not attacking you, I've legitimately never heard of Solar Expansion.

 

[Nettehlol]

The pack already has several solar panels available, why add this one? Not attacking you, I've legitimately never heard of Solar Expansion.

These Solar panels can be removed imo, they offer low rf/t. Solar Expansion Ultimate Panel offers 32k rf/t, but it costs 32k tier 1 panels.

 

[RealKC]

The pack already has several solar panels available, why add this one? Not attacking you, I've legitimately never heard of Solar Expansion.

It also adds Solar Helemets

 

[Desman]

The problem with Big Reactors is how crazy efficient they are.. ore veins are quite common and relatively large, it is too easy to build them of bigger sizes and here the problem comes - the bigger they are the more imbalanced they go in terms of resources spent vs rf/t gain.

For example: 3x3x3 to 3x3x4 is 260~rf/t to 560 rf/t (DOUBLE rf/t for just adding 1 layer in height). 3x3x3 is around ~40 iron, ~40 coal, 1 Diamond and some Yellorium, which is 260rf/t. 4x4x4 (with 4 control rods) is ~120 iron~, ~100 coal and ~30 yellorium and it produces nearly 2,000 rf/t, 9x the energy produced for just adding a stack of iron and coal.
You don't need to bother with making farms, getting lava, making mob farms to power your gens.. just put in some yellorium, which is plenty to be found. You don't need to bother with how wasteful your reactor is going to be, as we have RFTools to solve this "issue".

I can maybe suggest adding in roster of choice "Solar Expansion", which adds Solar Panels. Ultimate Panel costs quite a fortune to make.

Despite their efficiency, not many players are going to build a reactor above certain size. They'll watch a tutorial, which will probably use a small 5x5 design, and do that. It's too bothersome to go beyond that, which means 2000-3000RF/t tops. These reactors were made for players that do need insane amounts of RF with minimal lag, that efficiency is just them working as intended.

Setting up a fullscale RFTools/quarry system is also not a small task for most players. The recipes for the machines alone are approaching Gregtech craziness. That's tutorials for at least 3 mods one needs to watch, and then build it all. Most will not even get to an RFTools world.

 

[DoYouMined]

Despite their efficiency, not many players are going to build a reactor above certain size. They'll watch a tutorial, which will probably use a small 5x5 design, and do that. It's too bothersome to go beyond that, which means 2000-3000RF/t tops. These reactors were made for players that do need insane amounts of RF with minimal lag, that efficiency is just them working as intended.

Setting up a fullscale RFTools/quarry system is also not a small task for most players. The recipes for the machines alone are approaching Gregtech craziness. That's tutorials for at least 3 mods one needs to watch, and then build it all. Most will not even get to an RFTools world.

I've always said that a lot of effort doesn't make something truly overpowered balanced. Sure, it can take effort to make a fast pickaxe or good armor, but it's a whole nother story when armor that makes you invincible (cough cough Draconic cough cough) or systems that generator the power of a big reactor with that much efficiency can only be defended by saying "Oh, it's balanced because they're hard to get". That kind of system doesn't need to exist, it's simply so broken that the game has no challenge. In an MC world where I have Draconic gear alone, I might as well be in creative.

 

[Caigan]

Btw isn't Poppet Shelf working like one for no cost?

Poppet shelves keep the chunk they are in loaded, I think that's about it.

Just wondering, is there any way I can re-enable squid spawning (Just for my personal use)? I think my computer can handle it, and I'm sick of crafting screen mdules (RFTools) without ink sacs available.

EDIT: To elaborate, ink sacs are specifically required for every module. For some reason, Ore Dictionary isn't working for it, the Oredictinificator from Mekanism won't accept "dyeBlack", and the storage drawer conversions don't work. This means I have to use the recipe added to the pack (other black dye + rotten flesh + water bottle), which consumes the bottle every time. If it gave me the bottle back, I would be fine with it.

EnderIO configs, look for squid spawning config, I forgot what it was named exactly.

But I need to do three things as well in the next update :

1. Add Squid Spawn Egg to the shop
2. Change the recipe for the RFTools Screens to use the ore dictionary version of black ink
3. Update the custom Ink Sac recipe to give the bottle back.

These Solar panels can be removed imo, they offer low rf/t. Solar Expansion Ultimate Panel offers 32k rf/t, but it costs 32k tier 1 panels.

The top panel for Solar Flux is 4,096 RF/t I believe, which is the 2nd top panel for Solar Expansion.

But looking into it, its an interesting mod that has a highly Editable version, and that is intriguing to me.

I've always said that a lot of effort doesn't make something truly overpowered balanced.

The problem with Big Reactors is how crazy efficient they are

Despite their efficiency, not many players are going to build a reactor above certain size.

I believe one of the core issues at hand here is I cannot balance things to the far ends of the player spectrum. What I mean is, I cannot balance the pack for the most generic player, the one who plays occasionally and in a relaxed manner, making things a bit easier for them, without leaving the heavier player getting bored fast. Likewise, I cannot balance just for the heaviest hitters, the ones who shoot for the best of the best as fast and efficiently as possible, without making things difficult and unplayable for the first player type.

I want to reiterate that, the goal of this pack is to teach players these mods start to finish, while wrapping it in a light, silly story, and giving incentives, secondary objectives, and a sense of progression to the pack as a whole.

There is a middle road I can achieve in balancing some mods. But the fact of the matter? Some things are still going to be overpowered, and other things underpowered.

 

[Rethala]

There... that's one problem fixed, anyway. I finally got Java 64-bit to download and install, and that solved the problem with FTB, it simply didn't want to open without it apparently. That must be something new with the latest installer version. Instead, I'm getting a modified version of the original error I posted, that now lists the new version of Java instead of the old one =P After work I'm gonna try forcing an update of the pack, I'd set it to download now but honestly I don't want to accidentally set it to run after it downloads and have it sitting there playing Minecraft for the next several hours without me =P

 

[Caigan]

There... that's one problem fixed, anyway. I finally got Java 64-bit to download and install, and that solved the problem with FTB, it simply didn't want to open without it apparently.

Excellent! =)

 

[Rethala]

Ooooh, multiquote...

Ok. . . other question. . . Deco craft:

EDIT: Just deleted all my text here intentionally as I have discovered the DECO BENCH for crafting these items. Didn't know about the deco bench.

Yeah, they just added that not too long ago, I probably would have mentioned it if you hadn't found it sooner =P

Chunkloader (can't recall the mod it comes from) that Infinity has is pretty nice.

Btw isn't Poppet Shelf working like one for no cost?

As @Caigan said, yes, it will keep the chunk it's in loaded for free, and they're not too expensive if I remember correctly, so they can be used as an add-on to an existing chunkloader or you could make several and just place them around everywhere. As an interesting side-note, though I can't remember for sure, that might just give you lots of extra poppet storage =P

 

[Nettehlol]

Despite their efficiency, not many players are going to build a reactor above certain size. They'll watch a tutorial, which will probably use a small 5x5 design, and do that. It's too bothersome to go beyond that, which means 2000-3000RF/t tops.

With a 5x5x5 you can do 5.7k rf/t on 8 rods. You don't care if mb/t is wasteful, resources are not a problem.

These reactors were made for players that do need insane amounts of RF with minimal lag, that efficiency is just them working as intended.

There should be efficiency-cost balance, which is not present in Big Reactors. They are too cheap for the gain they offer, which is my point. As Blizzard would say "Big Reactors do not offer fun and interactive gameplay"

Lets say culinary generators - you'll make a system behind them to feed the fuel, also you need other resources to make x8, x64 gens, going up in gens/tiers you'll need to upgrade systems behind. Most generators require some effort for them to pull out high rf/t (anything with Lava is pretty no-brainer though). Extra Utils generators rewards players with good systems behind the generators.

In my opinion Ultimate Solar Panel is decently balanced high-tier passive generator - it offers 32k rf/t, costs a lot, produces no lag. You'll want automated crafting systems behind it. It engages the player to think of ways how to make it, how to automate creating it.
Passive gens produce less and cost more, that is how they are balanced.

With Big Reactor you spend 10000x less resources, you don't need any system behind it and it will outperform any generator. It's like passive+active togetherx10, but with no downsides and no engaging systems behind it.

Setting up a fullscale RFTools/quarry system is also not a small task for most players. The recipes for the machines alone are approaching Gregtech craziness. That's tutorials for at least 3 mods one needs to watch, and then build it all. Most will not even get to an RFTools world.

You are over-complicating things. Recipes are no where near Gregtech-tier. All of the machines are cheap to make and do not require other mods.

Infinity Expert-mode machines are different story.

 

[arrrrik]

Thoughts on the supplementary survey:

AW: Not my cup of tea, but it doesn't really drag the pack down. Maybe just tone down the reward frequency? I do like taking the mannequin and putting it behind someone who's crafting so they freak out.

Malisis Doors: WHO WOULD EVER WANT THIS TAKEN AWAY? YOU MONSTERS. Seriously, no base is complete without nice looking doors. In fact I was going to suggest adding in Big Doors and Evolved Controls which both use Malisis Core for light function+decor mods.

Mine Menu: I didn't actually realize this was a thing. Also I'm not entirely sure how to use it for things other than equipment.

Project Zulu: the one thing PZ adds that I like, is the themed dungeons. Roguelike Dungeons tend to be a bit samey, but PZ, while it has issues, has some great biome themed dungeons. It'd be a shame to see pyramids go to the wayside.

Traveller's Gear: Keep if only because it has the best looking armor stand of any mod. Seriously, it's great. Looks way better than...Bibliocraft's? I can't remember what the other armor stand is.

Toolbox: I've used this once. It broke the machine I had just built despite having both a pickaxe and a wrench inside it. Not a huge fan.

 

[Captainrbaker]

Hi Caigan,

Sorry if this has been mentioned already but I looked through about 50 pages and I couldn't find a Reference to this issue.

I just downloaded this pack and started the first few quests. But in each quest I complete at least one of the rewards shows up as an "invalid item" .
Is there an easy fix for this I can do at my end?

I have played a ton of hqm packs and I haven't come across this before. I also googled it and the only reference I found there was for AS2 and there was no mention of a fix.

Anyway I love the idea behind the pack and can't wait to get into it. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Caigan]

I just downloaded this pack and started the first few quests. But in each quest I complete at least one of the rewards shows up as an "invalid item" .

This was my fault. I had to remove a new mod at the last moment, and the first four or five quests give a reward from that mod (some really weak, leather level armor). Either ignore the invalid items or admin spawn yourself some leather or chainmail.

 

[Captainrbaker]

This was my fault. I had to remove a new mod at the last moment, and the first four or five quests give a reward from that mod (some really weak, leather level armor). Either ignore the invalid items or admin spawn yourself some leather or chainmail.

Ok thanks heaps for the quick reply, glad to hear it's nothing at my end. I'll get back to enjoying the pack.