[1.7.10] Shattered

[Nezraddin]

Hrm... if the ratios of "Yellorite'Usage" and how much rf/t you get out of it are not pushed down alot. I would say pushing the big reactor pretty much into endgame (so at least reaching the moon with advanced rocketry) isn't a bad idea.
After all, usually - with not too heavy changed configs - big reactor is pretty much the last powersource you build and then ignore everything else (if you get enough yellorite of course).
So pushing the players to use first other means of power, e.g. the complexer systems like mekanism's fusion reactor, isn't a bad thing I think.

Though at the same time I have to say, that my opinion concerning this topic might not be the best. I used Big Reactors exactly one time (back in 1.6.4) and then never again cause I was always focusing on energy system which were more fun for me to set up (usually cause they're more complex in supplying them with everything they need) .
So well... my opinion is that big reactor is pretty much endgame. But at the same time... if I'm not forced to use it (like when too many things have power-cost like the laser-drill of MFR with it'S 80'000RF/t) I probably will never build one, unless I already have used every other way to make power and build one for fun. ^^"

 

[Golrith]

What I don't like about the arc furnace in a regular pack is that it doesn't add anything significant. It doesn't add any sort of speed/efficiency increase that you really need at the point in time you can build it. That makes it a "one-off", a machine you build, use once or twice to build another machine and then never touch it again.

Yeah. That's pretty true with all of IE though too.
In this pack, I have made more recipes requiring the arc furnace, mainly for the different alloys from EnderIO (due to removing EIO's alloy smelter)

The issue still exists a little in this pack, as once you have platinum, you can get an induction smelter which supersedes the arc furnace.

 

[Golrith]

Hrm... if the ratios of "Yellorite'Usage" and how much rf/t you get out of it are not pushed down alot. I would say pushing the big reactor pretty much into endgame (so at least reaching the moon with advanced rocketry) isn't a bad idea.
After all, usually - with not too heavy changed configs - big reactor is pretty much the last powersource you build and then ignore everything else (if you get enough yellorite of course).
So pushing the players to use first other means of power, e.g. the complexer systems like mekanism's fusion reactor, isn't a bad thing I think.

Though at the same time I have to say, that my opinion concerning this topic might not be the best. I used Big Reactors exactly one time (back in 1.6.4) and then never again cause I was always focusing on energy system which were more fun for me to set up (usually cause they're more complex in supplying them with everything they need) .
So well... my opinion is that big reactor is pretty much endgame. But at the same time... if I'm not forced to use it (like when too many things have power-cost like the laser-drill of MFR with it'S 80'000RF/t) I probably will never build one, unless I already have used every other way to make power and build one for fun. ^^"

I believe the mekanism reactor out produces the BR one, it's just a lot more involved to setup. So it's more endgame then BR.

Disclaimer: I don't always know what I'm talking about

 

[egor66]

Potions of strength & fire resist I forget for what atm lol, its something I wanted to make but got distracted by portal gun.

Just checked its need for the heatproof brick.

 

[Golrith]

Potions of strength & fire resist I forget for what atm lol, its something I wanted to make but got distracted by portal gun.

That sounds like the AR arc furnace, which you don't need. I thought I disabled all those recipes. All AR arc furnace functionality has been moved to the IE arc furnace.

 

[twisto51]

If that was due to the villager spawn, that was not intended and the blueprint has it's default recipe now. If it's another aspect, can you clarify?

It was due to having to make the arc furnace in the first place. Then make 96 coke for the electrodes, then pulverize the coke, then squeeze it, then craft it into electrodes(in a mod crafting bench I'll most likely never use again), electrodes that wear out. Think I lost ~5% durability simply making the ingots for the rolling machine. It feels like terraforming an entire planet simply because I want to grow a tree.

I liked the optional villager part because that provided some design challenges instead of just a patience challenge.

And yeah, the AR arc furnace main block doesn't show up in NEI so I assumed it was disabled even though you can call it up in the holoprojector.

 

[egor66]

Hmm (TM).

Would have been nice to know this before hand but hey I don't read every post.

 

[Nezraddin]

I believe the mekanism reactor out produces the BR one, it's just a lot more involved to setup. So it's more endgame then BR.

Disclaimer: I don't always know what I'm talking about

Well then let's say that Mekanism's Fusion reactor and big reactor are on the same level crafting wise. (so the player can choose which way they want )

When it comes to "endgame" I pretty much mean, that it's a very "easy to handle" generator.
So in my eyes it's pretty much like "Arc Furnace -> Alloy smelter". The arc furnace needs alot more taking care than the one-block'magic of the alloy smelter.
The same way I see the fusion reactor and big reactor. The fusion reactor needs alot more to take care of (alone to make it's fuel) and take alot of tweaking after you already build it. The big reactor needs a little attention of how to build it (and later it's turbine) but then it's pretty much "Just throw all your yellorite on it and it will run forever".

Though... at the same time I know that many peopel prefer the big reactor over the fusion reactor. So probably really make them the same tier and let players decide which they want to use.

 

[Golrith]

It was due to having to make the arc furnace in the first place. Then make 96 coke for the electrodes, then pulverize the coke, then squeeze it, then craft it into electrodes(in a mod crafting bench I'll most likely never use again), electrodes that wear out. Think I lost ~5% durability simply making the ingots for the rolling machine. It feels like terraforming an entire planet simply because I want to grow a tree.

I liked the optional villager part because that provided some design challenges instead of just a patience challenge.

And yeah, the AR arc furnace main block doesn't show up in NEI so I assumed it was disabled even though you can call it up in the holoprojector.

Hmm.

Yeah, the whole blueprint and special workbench caught me offguard in my design ideas. So, I think best option is to make the electrodes cheaper and easier to make, as there's no advantage to the Arc Furnace. I honestly thought the electrodes where an optional extra that increased speed/efficiency. Plus (if possible) make the Arc Furnace easier/cheaper to build as it's supposed to be a Tier 1 Alloy Smelter (in effect). I'll dig around and try out a few things.

 

[twisto51]

Yeah. That's pretty true with all of IE though too.
In this pack, I have made more recipes requiring the arc furnace, mainly for the different alloys from EnderIO (due to removing EIO's alloy smelter)

The issue still exists a little in this pack, as once you have platinum, you can get an induction smelter which supersedes the arc furnace.

Yeah, I made an induction smelter before I made the arc furnace and I don't make an arc furnace at all in a regular pack because it doesn't offer anything.

I think there are plenty of things in IE that are worth building. I like the power gen, the powered lights also work as mini-magnum torches, the crusher has a gigantic buffer so you can throw everything in it at once, the excavator can be the key to producing a large quantity of an otherwise scarce resource(like uranium). The metal press works fine and looks great, etc., and you need plates/gears/rods in a many tech mods. The arc furnace? It provides an expensive way to recycle resources that are cheaper/easier to simply obtain more of. Not worth.

 

[Golrith]

Yeah, I made an induction smelter before I made the arc furnace and I don't make an arc furnace at all in a regular pack because it doesn't offer anything.

I think there are plenty of things in IE that are worth building. I like the power gen, the powered lights also work as mini-magnum torches, the crusher has a gigantic buffer so you can throw everything in it at once, the excavator can be the key to producing a large quantity of an otherwise scarce resource(like uranium). The metal press works fine and looks great, etc., and you need plates/gears/rods in a many tech mods. The arc furnace? It provides an expensive way to recycle resources that are cheaper/easier to simply obtain more of. Not worth.

Right, I'll see what can be done. My idea was that was your first RF powered furnace then you move on to TE, not the other way round. If it's no better then a cobblestone furnace (excluding the alloy side of things) there is a serious design flaw there. Seems IE needs a furnace tier before the Arc.

 

[twisto51]

Right, I'll see what can be done. My idea was that was your first RF powered furnace then you move on to TE, not the other way round. If it's no better then a cobblestone furnace (excluding the alloy side of things) there is a serious design flaw there. Seems IE needs a furnace tier before the Arc.

Well, yeah, it is definitely an IE-specific thing. And I'm not saying that you should do something about it, just pointing out that the Arc Furnace itself is a bit of an albatross that doesn't make for a fun or interesting gate mechanic.

 

[Nezraddin]

The first IE powered furnace might be the external heater on a vanilla furnace, even gives a speed bonus once it's all heated up

I still like the arc furnace for it's design, but yeah mechanic wise it's as weird balance for pretty much only adding direct alloying and recycling.

One idea about the electrodes: While there is no config for making them a "One time crafting only", there is a config for telling it how long it will hold. "The default value of 96000 makes them last for 8 consecutive ingame days", it doesn't say if there is a maximum you can choose.
Tested if setting it to 0 would give it infinite durability, sadly not. So maybe just increase the number alot (like really 'alot') so the electrode would hold for a very very very long time before you need a new one would help in this matter. So like adding three 0, that would mean it would last for 8'000 minecraft days.

[edit]
Just read up about it a bit again. Another big advantage of the arc furnace seems the ability to smelt 12 items at the same time.
So it's not thaaat bad, just when you only smelt a few little things with it, it's not showing it's true potential. That is, if I understand this part about the twelve items right... really need to make one again. So long since the last one x.x

[edit 2]
Yep smelting 12 Items at the same time, just tested it. Downside... the RF/t costs you see in NEI are for each item, so with smelting 12 ore at the same time it's like over 6'000RF/t it consumes.
More than a Diesel-generator produces. This arc furnace really has a weird place seen on balance inside the IE mod.

 

[Golrith]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Thinking about it, the Tinkers Smeltry has become the furnace in progression. Made of steel, multiblock, doesn't ore double by default (so grindstone/grinder required). Only downside is it's lava powered, not RF. Unless there is a small lava generator block that can very very slowly create lava somehow and is less efficient then the magma crucible to stop early power loops.

What I'll do is change the eletrode recipe, change their durability and change the AR rolling machine recipe to use a normal material lathed rod. Arc Furnace becomes a specialised structure for various alloys needed later on. By the time you need it you'll have plenty of resources to not worry about it's high base cost.


Didn't know about the external heater myself. I'm going to use those ASAP in my world.

 

[Nezraddin]

According to lava-production:
Might be a weird suggestion as recipe but maybe a vanilla furnace recipe which turns a bucket of creosote-oil into a lava bucket?
Of course it would need a very long smelting-time (I don't know, like the time you usually need for smelting half a stack or even longer) so that it's unattractive compared to the magma-crucible.
Disadvantage would be of course that it would be only RF-consuming to make lava when people use the external heater and not just charcoal or so. And of course patient people might still ignore the magma-crucible and just set up like 20 furnaces to make lava-buckets. (at some point you hardly know what to do with all the creosote oil after all ^^")

Similar idea would be instead of furnace using the blast-furnace to make the same. Limited the recipe to the Railcraft one (so you cannot speed it up with the advanced blast furnace).
Downside here: People would need to build two blast furnaces since in the beginning you most like will make steel all around the clock in one. (and of course you would need extra charcoal/coalcoke to fire the blast furnace, which means more coke oven needed)

Just throwing in this idea. Really hard to find a recipe for lava which really favours the magma-crucible on the long term and not just make people mass-build other structures to make the lava instead (or are just patient). But once people are in the nether lava isn't a big problem anyways... unless the lava in the Nether is missing (havn't visited it yet), so the lava-recipes would be for early game anyways, I guess.

 

[egor66]

Found a really bad exploit Salyx saplings from Ancient Trees give one basic loot bag per sapling in a Loot recycler, seeing as this tree is huge & gives around a stack of sapling per tree for the cost of one sapling its way way to easy to exploit.

Lets hope its fixed in next update, its that bad I was not going to post it here but instead PM the dev, but hey some of you may have found it already.

 

[twisto51]

MFR tip: Build a fisher with your first plastic sheets. It'll fish up more sheets and shopping bags that often contain lots of sheets.

 

[Golrith]

According to lava-production:
Might be a weird suggestion as recipe but maybe a vanilla furnace recipe which turns a bucket of creosote-oil into a lava bucket?
Of course it would need a very long smelting-time (I don't know, like the time you usually need for smelting half a stack or even longer) so that it's unattractive compared to the magma-crucible.
Disadvantage would be of course that it would be only RF-consuming to make lava when people use the external heater and not just charcoal or so. And of course patient people might still ignore the magma-crucible and just set up like 20 furnaces to make lava-buckets. (at some point you hardly know what to do with all the creosote oil after all ^^")

Similar idea would be instead of furnace using the blast-furnace to make the same. Limited the recipe to the Railcraft one (so you cannot speed it up with the advanced blast furnace).
Downside here: People would need to build two blast furnaces since in the beginning you most like will make steel all around the clock in one. (and of course you would need extra charcoal/coalcoke to fire the blast furnace, which means more coke oven needed)

Just throwing in this idea. Really hard to find a recipe for lava which really favours the magma-crucible on the long term and not just make people mass-build other structures to make the lava instead (or are just patient). But once people are in the nether lava isn't a big problem anyways... unless the lava in the Nether is missing (havn't visited it yet), so the lava-recipes would be for early game anyways, I guess.

Hmm. One reason why I made chests and crop sticks out of creosote wood was to give more use for creosote.
I was thinking of adapting the MFR lava fabricator. It's currently disabled. I can adjust config and recipe to make it feel like a smeltry/IE cross over, and adjust config so that it's quite slow. Plug that to your smeltry, along with a water wheel, and you have a RF powered smeltry.

I don't mind if slow systems are spammed/abused. They require a larger footprint, and piping to automate, so can be a big build. Part of what MC is all about really.

Found a really bad exploit Salyx saplings from Ancient Trees give one basic loot bag per sapling in a Loot recycler, seeing as this tree is huge & gives around a stack of sapling per tree for the cost of one sapling its way way to easy to exploit.

Lets hope its fixed in next update, its that bad I was not going to post it here but instead PM the dev, but hey some of you may have found it already.

Interesting. I think that's possible to fix either in the config or via MT. Congrats on getting a Ancient Tree sapling!

MFR tip: Build a fisher with your first plastic sheets. It'll fish up more sheets and shopping bags that often contain lots of sheets.

Nice find! I'll have to test that and the above, just to see how it fits with my progression idea. Don't think that fisher is really an issue, and is certainly a creative way of getting plastic.

 

[twisto51]

PSA: Do not build a manual blaze farm in a base made out of wood and berry bushes. Everything was going fine until a blue, teleporting, lightning-throwing blaze showed up. I didn't know water wheels could burn.

 

[twisto51]

[edit 2]
Yep smelting 12 Items at the same time, just tested it. Downside... the RF/t costs you see in NEI are for each item, so with smelting 12 ore at the same time it's like over 6'000RF/t it consumes.

I'm not getting 12 pulsating iron to smelt at the same time, maybe it is only 12x for the recipes that come with IE.

Golrith, would it be possible to get IE's nether quartz dust added as an option in the binder composite recipe? Anybody who throws their quartz into the crusher to make dust for binder composite is in for a rude awakening. Be nice if natura sulfur worked for making plastic as well.