Can someone remind me if there are useful entry-level witching gadget thingies I should check out?
[1.7.10][LISTED] InfiTech 2 Modpack v3.2.21 [HQM][GregTech balanced hard-mode modpack]
- Thread starter Jason McRay
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Sven "flamestrider"
Guest
the extruder is nice, and the calculator that's used to analyse the infusion altar.
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targetingyou78
Guest
So I've been working on oil distillation for a few days, and it's becoming a little bit clearer to me, but I still have a few questions... the main one is, would you consider it a wise decision to make Nitro Diesel with all of my Light Fuel? Certainly it's the most energy-dense fluid I can make, so why not make as much as I can?
The consequence of that decision is that I'd never run Light Fuel thru my Oil Cracker, only the Heavy Fuel fraction, which simplifies my Cracker setup since it's only one fluid in and one fluid out. I'm curious to hear of the decision you might have made in this regard, and if different from mine give your reasoning. Thanks.
The consequence of that decision is that I'd never run Light Fuel thru my Oil Cracker, only the Heavy Fuel fraction, which simplifies my Cracker setup since it's only one fluid in and one fluid out. I'm curious to hear of the decision you might have made in this regard, and if different from mine give your reasoning. Thanks.
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Sven "flamestrider"
Guest
I used the multiblock savings and used the back wall of the heavy fuel cracker to build an additional cracker for light fuel for way less resources, then I made all my oil into gas-based fuels, it yields much more energy per liter of raw oil than making nitrodiesel. Another advantage is that it produces a lot of naphtha which might either be used as a fuel or for plastics.
Yeah, one of my revelations is that there's literally zero difference between LPG and Naphtha, they both have the same energy value and they can both be burned in the same Gas Turbine. And similar to your argument above, there's little reason to even make the LPG from Refinery Gas since they also are equivalent energy values, altho Refinery Gas takes up twice the space as LPG, so that's merely a convenience cost.
So then you took the route mentioned at the bottom of the wiki, you opted to turn all oil into Gas Turbine products and skip the two Diesel Generator products of Light Fuel and Nitro Diesel. I'm curious about your statement about "more energy per liter of raw oil"... I guess that must be taking into consideration the energy loss incurred when making the Nitro Diesel out of the Light Fuel?
To me, it may be a fair tradeoff to burn energy to make a more energy-dense fuel like Nitro-Diesel, because I'm already seeing the energy cost to run the Oil Drilling Rig is fairly extensive and I can really use that portable energy-dense fluid to run the Oil Drill and (soon) the Advanced Miner II out in the field. Right now I'm using up my LPG because I didn't know where else to use it, but I'm pretty sure I'm gonna go thru 3 Drums full of LPG just on my very first Oil Well, it began with 704 L/cycle of Heavy Oil and 3 hours later the rate has only dropped to 698 L/cycle and the first drum of LPG is already gone. I might need TEN drums of LPG for this oil well unless the rate of extraction drops off dramatically, and soon. Thus, my thinking about going for the Nitro.
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targetingyou78
Guest
Do you use a bedrockium drum to transport that oil? I have already filled up over 4 barrels of oil from my first time using the oil drill. Also, today I tried to start going towards a bedrockium drum and I made a couple of Compact Storage drawers only to find they don't compress cobble. Just curious, why does that recipe call for two MV pistons if it can not perform any compression recipes? Lol (I saw the MV pistons and thought for sure the recipe was changed because it compressed things)
Side question: Can the arc furnace take more than one amp per side? I know it can take up to 7 amps (so I assumed one amp per side?) and I've always used it with cable running into three sides but I just put in more batteries and it burned the 4x cables. Does that mean it was taking more than 1 amp per side? If it can take all 7 amps on one side that would be wonderful for my setup xD
Edit: Also, I'm pretty sure my rig started out around 800L/cycle and I'm getting 620L/cycle now I think... so I'm pretty sure you have a long way to go before that oil rig needs to be moved.
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targetingyou78
Guest
I just made one and yes, just pumps out cobble from one side. It has a really nice texture with sphax. Little lava pores onto water inside the block. I just set it up and pointed it at a barrel with a void upgrade. (as mentioned above, decided to try and make a bedrockium drum so i figured I'd test it out)
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codewarrior0
Guest
I agree wholeheartedly. The energy density of Nitro makes it perfect for carrying energy to a distant location. It's how I've been powering the Miner I have set up in the end. (Pro Tip: It rains invisibly in the End, so build a shelter for any machines you put there! Found that out the hard way.) And if you've got a Heavy Oil source, which refines down to a lot of Light Fuel, it's pretty much the obvious choice.
Later on, when you have the option to build the Large Gas Turbine and Large Diesel Engine, the numbers will change a little bit. Whereas the single-block generators all have a fuel energy penalty, the multi-block ones have an energy bonus instead. The Diesel Engine gets +50% fuel energy when you supply it with Oxygen, and the Gas Turbine gets a fuel energy bonus that depends on which material you use for the turbine item (usually 20%-40% for the "Large Turbine" item, and up to 60% with the really high end materials). So it might turn out that Nitro is still the obvious choice until you can craft Duranium or Tritanium turbine items.
Hang on, I'm gonna re-crunch the numbers on the fuel values for cracking Light Fuel vs making Nitro... somebody else crunched them before, but I have a feeling that those are now outdated.
For my base power, I'm drilling Natural Gas and Raw Oil, burning both LPG, Naphtha, and Nitro, and distributing the power over Aluminum EV (and later, Platinum IV) cables. Before I set up that main power grid, I was using the single-block Gas Turbines to power my oil refining machines over a small power network, and using Fluid Conduits to carry the Nitro to small Diesel Generators all over my base as a sort of fluid-based power grid.
Yep. Every machine can take one or more amps per side. The amp limit isn't per-side at all, it's just per-machine.
That's another revelation I've had during the course of my play... and you described it perfectly, a "fluid-based power grid". One day, the light bulb went on in my brain... instead of trying to centralize my power generation and send it every which way with the resultant line losses, why not send the BioGas everywhere instead, and generate whatever power I need at that location instead? It's a common sense thing, but it didn't hit me until that light bulb moment... electrical cables have losses involved with every block they travel, but fluid conduits have no such drawback. Duh.
But it took me a while to understand that.I still feel like everything runs off my tree farm, no matter how high up the power ladder I go. The Boiler makes the Steam, the LV Distilleries run off Steam Turbines to make BioGas, and the BioGas runs my EBF and Distillation Tower, which of course will result in yet another step up the power pyramid. What I'm wondering is... at what point (if ever), do I (or can I) break this chain that all depends on trees-to-charcoal-to-steam? Once I achieve all these petroleum by-products that I can burn, do I even need my steam production or is my power self-sufficient now, in a sense? To me, having the steam running all the time is like my backbone, and just imagine if they took the backbone out of your body. LOL Not good.
Yes, I am beginning to realize the same thing... placing the Oil Drilling Rig is NOT a one-day project. LOL I have a feeling this thing might be running for the entire week. hahaha
You nailed the biggest limitation - what to do with all this oil? Right now I have 8 Drums lined up which is 2m total capacity so I can let it run for hours, but I'm not sure if I can let it run overnight or not.
A bedrockium drum would be a fine solution, yes... except the 54 diamond cost is quite steep in my opinion. I use the Packager to create Compressed Cobble, by the way - you have to make the Schematic for it that is the 9x9 version. Even tho I do have 56 diamonds and know where I can mine even more, I choose not to "waste" them on a Drum.
My preferred solution to the Oil Drilling Rig is gonna be the Dimensional Transceiver (which I wish I could call a Tesseract, but I can't LOL). Wireless fluid transport back to base is the clear winner, even moreso than a Bedrockium Drum. The advantage of the Bedrockium Drum is eliminating the need to build a Railcraft Tank to store the oil, but what about the other 3 products that come out of a Drilling Rig? Heavy Oil, Light Oil, Raw Oil and Natural Gas - that means we'll need FOUR Bedrockium Drums, or else you'll still be building tanks, and there goes the big advantage of the Drum in the first place. Do you agree?
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Sven "flamestrider"
Guest
Well, when I was experimenting with my oil refining I was reading @Joel Falk s documents and was wondering what would happen if I was to produce gases instead of nitro diesel as a "end product" since the gasses are half the energy density of nitrodiesel I figured I should calculate how to make it... so I came up with the following reiterative table: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1O-UGYYupK_Ko7syjax2rtDGEUrFqq3IG3cF8rUojznQ/ now, this isn't a perfect run in-game of how the process works so I might be off in rounding and such, but it still shows a remarkable energy gain when compared with making nitro-diesel, as you can see from Joels document in this threads first post has that document linked.
But to make it short, in his nitro-diesel calculation you can get close to 2'900EU/L Heavy Oil if you also utilize turning toluene into light fuel while in my all gas setup you get close to 6'000EU/L Heavy Oil.
Also worth noting that splitting refinery gas into methane and LPG in my reiterative setup is definitely worth doing as the added gain of almost 900EU/L in methane is worth that small step, a pretty nice energy boost that almost makes the entire process able to run off the Methane you split off from the refinery gas.
Edit: altered some numbers
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targetingyou78
Guest
Lol Four bedrockium drums are expensive but that means you have to use 4 blocks of space instead of four separate 9x9x8 tanks (2592 blocks) so I would argue that four bedrockium drums would be more favorable if not for the cost. Which imo is the point. Cost for Convenience. I have already set my mind to the fact that I am going to make a Liquid building. Despite making a larger base. I've already had to make a new generation building. (Not going to lie, I LOVE the idea of stepping my HV up a tier to transport it to cut losses by a fourth. I'm very glad that the transformer costs are for the lower side or else this would be irrelevant because you would transport it at the same tier you generate it in which is not how it works in real life. This was actually the first thing I learned when I started my Master's in Power and Energy Systems. It actually left me giddy <3) But yeah, I plan on making another building for Liquid storage and processing.
Wow, 3 Distilling Towers and 2 Oil Crackers? That's livin' large. haha But nice spreadsheet, I'm sure I'll be able to glean some things from examining it. For my own setup, which will be the "standard" 2 Towers and 1 Cracker, I'm doing my best to re-route everything out of the second Tower back into the output of the first. So far... (knock on wood) I've been successful. Except I haven't built the second Tower yet. hahaha
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codewarrior0
Guest
This number seems way too high. I'm getting something closer to half of that.
Oh, by the way, you can put multiple input hatches on the Distillation Tower, so you can usually distill both cracked fuels in one tower and build one less tower.
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I've been watching Jason McRay's older videos of his play-thru to get tips and tricks and ideas, and yeah I love his Tank Towers, he gave each of his tanks four legs and a hat (roof).
The problem is definitely space... going upwards isn't an option, cause that's my first floor workshop. And if I go downward with the tanks on a floor below, then I've got it all backwards... the tank outputs are way down at the bottom, the farthest they could be from where the fluids have to go. LOL
It sure would be easiest if I could just "stretch out" and occupy as many chunks as I want, but then I have the issue of chunk loading, which is restricted to 5x5 on our server. So I try to keep everything in a 5x5 area, and even that has its issues. If I make a tank farm way out at one unused corner chunk, then I have to get those fluids back and forth to where they are needed somehow. Always a headache, that's why we love this game.
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targetingyou78
Guest
I've been watching Jason McRay's older videos of his play-thru to get tips and tricks and ideas, and yeah I love his Tank Towers, he gave each of his tanks four legs and a hat (roof).
The problem is definitely space... going upwards isn't an option, cause that's my first floor workshop. And if I go downward with the tanks on a floor below, then I've got it all backwards... the tank outputs are way down at the bottom, the farthest they could be from where the fluids have to go. LOL
It sure would be easiest if I could just "stretch out" and occupy as many chunks as I want, but then I have the issue of chunk loading, which is restricted to 5x5 on our server. So I try to keep everything in a 5x5 area, and even that has its issues. If I make a tank farm way out at one unused corner chunk, then I have to get those fluids back and forth to where they are needed somehow. Always a headache, that's why we love this game.
Agreed. Although, I'm thinking of adding Extra Cells at some point to the game. I haven't even looked at AE yet but I really like the idea that my future base will be super advanced and everything will be done through AE.
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Sven "flamestrider"
Guest
Yeah, I know it's a lot of materials, but I made this because I wanted to squeeze out as much energy as possible from each Liter of Oil I could. This isn't something you'd make as a start build, since you get rid of almost all "unnecessary" fluids and only produce energy containing gases.
I think of it like making rocket fuel, you don't really want to make rocket fuel, just to power a farmers tractor, now would you
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codewarrior0
Guest
Oy, Sven, check your Naphtha row, you've got a 130 in every cell that should be a 30.