I am totally NOT against bees giving some basic iron\copper\tin\redstone, for the reason that you may take advanced drill and dig straight tunnel for well 5-10 minutes. Chances of you finding one of those veins goes to somewhere 70%. With adv drill, you can get manymany stacks of that resource and after processings you get double-triple the amount. Bees for this purpose are practically an alternative "machine", which functions and is needed on present level. Like an early forge hammer - its not critical, it takes resources, but is nice to have. Next thing - after ~HV, all 4 resources are required in massive amounts. Iron is for steel and pellets, copper for annealed copper for cables (some machines require many stacks of copper wire), redstone for chrome and tin is for cells of sorts. This game part kinda turns into very clear grinding, which GT and this pack usually don't have. Bees kindly allow escaping that grinding and allow entrance into that mod at a very good time - almost right you start needing them for production and when you can afford pretty much anything needed for this. Thats why I am not against copper-iron-tin-redstone. Mostly anything above this - crosses out one or another stage in gregtech. Bees are simular with RTG pellets\steam, which dont give much, but give always and are everlasting, need only primarily investment and their contribution with some time is noticable. Having bees with that concept is what is most balanced (in my experience) regarding what we have HERE in the modpack.
[1.7.10][LISTED] InfiTech 2 Modpack v3.2.21 [HQM][GregTech balanced hard-mode modpack]
- Thread starter Jason McRay
- Start date
How much Naquadah is there in the Asteroids? One vein per km^2 or more? Is there also Tungsten in GC dimensions, more than in the Overworld? I still need a reason to travel there...
Edit: You dont get normal naquadah back in the MK3 reactor...
Edit: You dont get normal naquadah back in the MK3 reactor...
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I'll repeat myself, regardless of the vicious hate I got from some guy above - how many of you guys who throw shit over bees actually dealt with them enough to give opinion? Be honest please. I try to not shout "nerf X" if I don't know enough about X. Example:
I think that Logistic Pipes are OP in this modpack because of lack of channels and considerably cheaper recipes than in AE2. BUT I never told Jason to nerf LP, because I don't use it, don't know it enough and I just don't give opinion about something that I don't know much of. Same with bees - people that got into them enough usually don't call them OP.
About Naquadah Bees - I ACTUALLY think that they're a bit OP now. I remember that in Infitech v2 processing naquadah combs took a lot of power and required HV centrifuge. Now it just requires LV and hardly any power.
I think this high power requirement counteracted spamming tons of Naqaudah apiaries/alvearies very well, and restoring the recipe would balance Naquadah bees again.
Another really OP bee - Osmium Bee from Magic Bees. Made with Mekanism in mind, where osmium is nothing special, it doesn't really fit this modpack, where osmium is one of the harder to get materials. It doesn't even need comb processing as it churns out osmium nuggets.
I think that Logistic Pipes are OP in this modpack because of lack of channels and considerably cheaper recipes than in AE2. BUT I never told Jason to nerf LP, because I don't use it, don't know it enough and I just don't give opinion about something that I don't know much of. Same with bees - people that got into them enough usually don't call them OP.
About Naquadah Bees - I ACTUALLY think that they're a bit OP now. I remember that in Infitech v2 processing naquadah combs took a lot of power and required HV centrifuge. Now it just requires LV and hardly any power.
I think this high power requirement counteracted spamming tons of Naqaudah apiaries/alvearies very well, and restoring the recipe would balance Naquadah bees again.
Another really OP bee - Osmium Bee from Magic Bees. Made with Mekanism in mind, where osmium is nothing special, it doesn't really fit this modpack, where osmium is one of the harder to get materials. It doesn't even need comb processing as it churns out osmium nuggets.
I'm currently generating the copper tin iron and restone you mention using Thaumcraft and GT.
Centrifuging glowstone dust (created in alchemical duplication) gives restore and gold. The gold itself is useful, but I use it as a metallum source to duplicate iron, tin and copper. Centrifuging redstone and Electrolysing the pyrite also gives iron. I use soy beans and glass dust to get the permutatio and vitreous for copper and tin.
This all requires a lot of infrastructure to set up, and considerable power to keep it going. It takes 8 MV centrifuges (640EU/t) to make 10 redstone a minute, as well as a lot of automation with AE costing some power and a lot of resources to build.
Logistic pipes system is very simular to AE. Lp is cheaper analogue in most cases, but AE is mostly for its storage capability and more advanced stuff, not its crafting. LP is simply method to make more complex system than you would make with buildcraft, as AE is by far a bigger and much more complicated mod than LP, which has transport, crafting and basically thats it.
About bees - just about 90% of them are well OP. Chrome, Titanium, iridium, plutonium, uranium, platinum, steel, oil, steam etc etc etc. If by "some guy above" you meant me - I, probably, had more experience than you. But I wont go into "that" territory, even if you try provoking me again. it is as simple as it is - getting out of the air stuff which is meant to be rare as red moon - IS OP, no matter how you look into it. Getting stuff from GT, which has complex production chain and\or power requirements - IS OP. Getting stuff you should explore the world to find and get huge profits from it because you had to explore massively and you get it for free at home - IS OP.
Its up to author to decide what to do and how. I spoke what I had on my mind.
And by the way, getting osmium in vanilla GT is only possible by finding it and duplicating in replicator. But damn, those bees.
I don't know why you'd single out bees while ignoring every other zero upkeep/infinite production system in the pack unless Bees are the one you don't use yourself. I am old enough for my natural state of rest to be cynicism though so maybe it is just me.
Put together an RTG two days ago and my jaw hit the floor when I realized I had 32 solar panels in a single block---that didn't need sunlight and was easier to build.
Meanwhile I've got golems that have produced probably millions of blocks of wood, charcoal, and barrels of creosote without me lifting a finger once they were placed.
Have Ender I/O reservoirs all over the place, no matter how many buckets of water I pull out of them they never run out.
Thaumcraft nodes around a wand recharging pedestal, they recharge, without me doing anything, how OP is that?
Cursed Earth spawner that would repopulate the planet with mobs if I didn't enclose it. Not only do I not have to do any upkeep to keep it running, I have to actively prevent it from running.
Now in this list of zero upkeep/infinite production systems how many of them required more work than Bees? None. How many took longer to get into useful production? None.
Put together an RTG two days ago and my jaw hit the floor when I realized I had 32 solar panels in a single block---that didn't need sunlight and was easier to build.
Meanwhile I've got golems that have produced probably millions of blocks of wood, charcoal, and barrels of creosote without me lifting a finger once they were placed.
Have Ender I/O reservoirs all over the place, no matter how many buckets of water I pull out of them they never run out.
Thaumcraft nodes around a wand recharging pedestal, they recharge, without me doing anything, how OP is that?
Cursed Earth spawner that would repopulate the planet with mobs if I didn't enclose it. Not only do I not have to do any upkeep to keep it running, I have to actively prevent it from running.
Now in this list of zero upkeep/infinite production systems how many of them required more work than Bees? None. How many took longer to get into useful production? None.
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Do I need to answer? You say that getting cobble and shit is same as getting plutonium, iridium and stuff. IDK why you treat them the same way. Unlimited - doesnt mean its OP. I said it many times already.
I've mined tungsten. Better nerf the pickaxe because it is OP compared to UUM/fusion. I haven't used UUM since it went liquid. Before that it was just a matter of throwing energy and scrap at it. Looks a bit more involved now but not impossible to automate.
Why is getting plutonium from bees easier than from an ic2 reactor? I mean I built the reactor in less than 30m. /smh. Makes me want to make 216 Carpenters just to see what the minimum time possible to turn out an Alveary is, minus resource acquisition.
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Please point me where I wrote this before, I ll eat my shoes. Otherwise stop behaving like an idiot, please. I am getting tired of being polite at answering "cobla is a unlimiteda too why bees are bed bees are hardir then cobla" crap
as for plutinium - it takes 10000 seconds to enrich 6 uranium 238 into 1 tiny plutonium EACH. Maybe its 24 u238 into 4 tiny plutonium at max per 1 quad fuel rod. Unless you mine tens of stacks of uranium with whole veins, and unless you MASSIVELY explore your world, you cant produce MOX. And unless you stack MANY reactors you cant produce it with adequate speed.
When you get bees - you can start duplicating them with gendustry. On a massive scale, provided you have the resources. And produce basically unlinited amount from basically nothing after that. Anything else?
Please guys, let's tone it down. This has been one of the friendliest threads I've come across - let's not ruin it.
Please point me where I wrote this before, I ll eat my shoes. Otherwise stop behaving like an idiot, please. I am getting tired of being polite at answering "cobla is a unlimiteda too why bees are bed bees are hardir then cobla" crap
When you get bees - you can start duplicating them with gendustry. On a massive scale, provided you have the resources. And produce basically unlinited amount from basically nothing after that. Anything else?
Anything else? Not really, at least not with somebody who exaggerates one side of an argument his/her way and the other side of an argument exactly the other.
The best part is "when you get bees", like I can find max speed uranium bees in a dungeon chest.
The second best part is your continued mention of cobble where none of the examples listed produce cobble. Of course that is you trying to equate everything they produce to the value of cobble. Probably not fooling anybody with that one.
The third best is how you're getting irate, which tells me you have a lot invested in not doing bees and not wanting anybody else to do bees if you're not doing them.
Long story short, useful bee production is more complex and more resource intensive than you're willing to admit for some reason. Curious, isn't it?
I hate bees, but only because I based with Miguk once and he's amazing with bees and I saw how it made resource acquisition (a key function of GT difficulty scaling) really redundant for many key resources. It directly, negatively impacted my playing experience.
I'd see diamond veins and redstone veins and be like, sigh, why bother. I can crank out piles of diamonds and redstone whenever the hell I want.
(Now even Miguk sets himself really strict rules about when and how he allows himself to use bees, which should tell you something)
There's considerable effort up front, but the end result makes GT way easier. If that's awesome for you, coolies, but it doesn't work for me.
My solution once upon a time was to transform bees into resource-multipliers rather than resource-acquisition. You'd combine iron bee combs with iron ore to get 4 crushed ore instead of 2, etc. So you could never get infinite resources from bees, just lots more per mining trip.
Never got it finished; scripting took too long.
I'd see diamond veins and redstone veins and be like, sigh, why bother. I can crank out piles of diamonds and redstone whenever the hell I want.
(Now even Miguk sets himself really strict rules about when and how he allows himself to use bees, which should tell you something)
There's considerable effort up front, but the end result makes GT way easier. If that's awesome for you, coolies, but it doesn't work for me.
My solution once upon a time was to transform bees into resource-multipliers rather than resource-acquisition. You'd combine iron bee combs with iron ore to get 4 crushed ore instead of 2, etc. So you could never get infinite resources from bees, just lots more per mining trip.
Never got it finished; scripting took too long.
Bees are very easy compared to UUM or fusion. Still hard to setup compared to a cobblegen, but me and Taumto did need only a few hours to get good genes for production bees (longest livespan/fastest production...) starting from zero. At the moment our bees produce stuff to build our first alveary (for rojal jelly production), after that we can use the royal jelly to mutate our way to tungsten/osmium/naquadah within hours.
UUM requires very expensive machines (after MV they need several nether stars and tons of osmium amd valuable circuits), lots of energy and good infrastructure. Producing naquadah requires a MK2 reactor, shittons of energy and Thorium/Plutonium, which are both very expensive with UUM due to their high atomic weight.
Naqzadah bees arent harder than any other bees, just a few more steps. After those its just like getting iron from bees, just a bit morer rare...
UUM requires very expensive machines (after MV they need several nether stars and tons of osmium amd valuable circuits), lots of energy and good infrastructure. Producing naquadah requires a MK2 reactor, shittons of energy and Thorium/Plutonium, which are both very expensive with UUM due to their high atomic weight.
Naqzadah bees arent harder than any other bees, just a few more steps. After those its just like getting iron from bees, just a bit morer rare...
You mean this? https://github.com/JasonMcRay/InfiTech-1.7/pull/56/files
it would be easier if you could use Oredictionary entries in scripts with Minetweaker... a lot easier. Not sure from where comes the limitation (@Blood Asp)
Yep, that's just a small part of it too.You mean this? https://github.com/JasonMcRay/InfiTech-1.7/pull/56/files
it would be easier if you could use Oredictionary entries in scripts with Minetweaker... a lot easier. Not sure from where comes the limitation (@Blood Asp)
Industrial Apiary without upgrades is exactly like alveary, except it needs 30EU/t. You can insert various upgrades, from which production upgrade is the most powerful - increases production rate by 20%(or is it 40%?) per upgrade, stacking up to 8 times. However it drastically increases power usage, so the answer is - if you have tons of energy to spare, then yes it's better than alveary.