1.5.1 Beta Pack: Are U Looking Forward To It?

[Peppe]

I think you might have misplaced a 0 somewhere. Each generator was and still is 16 MJ/t. I didn't change the production rate, just made it use fuel much more slowly (so each generator burns a bucket of fuel for 8m 20s, if you're getting 20 tps).


Yeah, KirinDave was absolutely right about it basically being a liquid void pipe in 1.4.7.

Yeah not sure where my math was going. Lost the train of thought. Looks like i missed that you said 10 generators to a reactor, so i thought it was 1:1 to get your production values.

Did not know the generator had an output level of 16mj/t. Hard to tell that in 1.4.7 when it went through its whole fuel supply in a few seconds

So like you said reactor produces 1/10 of the old rate, so every 50 seconds / 1000 ticks a bucket is made. The generators consume a bucket over 500 seconds / 10,000 ticks.

So at that rate of fuel production you can run:
10 generators off one reactor. 160 MJ/t
vs
same setup would run 40 combustion engines at 200mj/t. But with the extra headaches that come with these engines.
vs
2 36 tank HP boilers ~288 mj/t


That is actually pretty balanced to me. Like i said earlier you lose some efficiency, but gain a lot of ease of use. If the generators auto shutoff on a full energy conduit network I would probably use them over combustion.

 

[DoctorOr]

Yeah, KirinDave was absolutely right about it basically being a liquid void pipe in 1.4.7.

Well, it sounds like you had tuned the reactor to produce reasonable power in a reactor/biofuel generator combination.

The problem is, the reactor produces general use biofuel and nobody is tied to that combination. You're reducing the speed of the output, but that's always easy to overcome in modded minecraft. Just build more of them and automate. Unless there's a change not in the changelog, you've still got the increased output per item, and an item like seeds (which otherwise has zero value anywhere else in minecraft)generates the same fuel as saplings.

If you want to be "we don't care what other mods can do" (which I'll state flat out is not my interpretation of how MFR is designed, unlike some other unnamed mods) then make it generate fuel that isn't compatible. If you want to be compatible, the 1.5.1 generator as you describe it simply isn't competitive, and the 1.5.1 reactor still overproduces.

I'm in game right now, and the generator is at 5 of 9 items with seeds. Three vanilla seeds and two Natura seeds.

 

[KirinDave]

Well, it sounds like you had tuned the reactor to produce reasonable power in a reactor/biofuel generator combination.

The problem is, the reactor produces general use biofuel and nobody is tied to that combination. You're reducing the speed of the output, but that's always easy to overcome in modded minecraft. Just build more of them and automate. Unless there's a change not in the changelog, you've still got the increased output per item, and an item like seeds (which otherwise has zero value anywhere else in minecraft)generates the same fuel as saplings.

If you want to be "we don't care what other mods can do" (which I'll state flat out is not my interpretation of how MFR is designed, unlike some other unnamed mods) then make it generate fuel that isn't compatible. If you want to be compatible, the 1.5.1 generator as you describe it simply isn't competitive, and the 1.5.1 reactor still overproduces.

But remember, The Competition Is Not Other Mods. It's Nether Lava. It doesn't matter what other mods are doing if they're off on some crazy tangent right now (e.g., SirSengir's very very not-worth-the-time multifarms). If it's more work for less power than a Nether Lava setup, there is a problem.

 

[Emy]

Well, it sounds like you had tuned the reactor to produce reasonable power in a reactor/biofuel generator combination.

Not really. Once I took a good look at it, the previous iteration of the BioFuel Gen was woefully underpowered, even in an MFR-only context.

Regarding your other comments, we do try to make MFR play nice with other mods as much as possible, though I'm not sure that the current reactor/generator pair are too good/bad respectively. I'm going to wait a bit to see how people end up actually using it in their setups before I tweak their numbers further. edit: thanks for the feedback.

 

[DoctorOr]

But remember, The Competition Is Not Other Mods. It's Nether Lava. It doesn't matter what other mods are doing if they're off on some crazy tangent right now (e.g., SirSengir's very very not-worth-the-time multifarms). If it's more work for less power than a Nether Lava setup, there is a problem.

Sengir's multifarms are not tied to Sengir's biomass/biofuel anymore than MFR's generator is tied to MFR's reactor.

And for somebody who got so sick of moving lava pumps, you keep bringing it up as an option. That maintenance is a huge cost not present in biofuel once its setup. Which means the biofuel can under perform and still be the better option.

 

[Peppe]

Well, it sounds like you had tuned the reactor to produce reasonable power in a reactor/biofuel generator combination.

The problem is, the reactor produces general use biofuel and nobody is tied to that combination. You're reducing the speed of the output, but that's always easy to overcome in modded minecraft. Just build more of them and automate. Unless there's a change not in the changelog, you've still got the increased output per item, and an item like seeds (which otherwise has zero value anywhere else in minecraft)generates the same fuel as saplings.

If you want to be "we don't care what other mods can do" (which I'll state flat out is not my interpretation of how MFR is designed, unlike some other unnamed mods) then make it generate fuel that isn't compatible. If you want to be compatible, the 1.5.1 generator as you describe it simply isn't competitive, and the 1.5.1 reactor still overproduces.

I'm in game right now, and the generator is at 5 of 9 items with seeds. Three vanilla seeds and two Natura seeds.

So you would like MFR to force you to use it's generator with it's biofuel? Now that they are usable that might be ok. But you don't request that biofuel only runs in the forestry biofuel generator? Railcraft boilers is a different mod-- why should it consume fuel from forestry?

Isn't it more fun to be able to make biofuel in the reactor and run the fuel in whatever consumer I like?

It is also cool that it make useless farmables have a use.... just because forestry does not use the same farmables does not mean it is bad that you can get biofuel from them.


Also,
Tested the 1.5 generators. They have an internal MJ buffer. Consume biofuel to fill their buffer. Then output that to conduit/energy cells. They are not the most fuel efficient vs combution or boilers, but you can just put them on an MJ network and supply them with fuel. If something on the network demands energy they run. If something isn't consuming the energy they stop consuming biofuel.

Compare that to a boiler -- always on. If you don't use all the steam fuel is wasted.
Compare to a combustion engine -- on/off controlled through a buildcraft gate/manually. Needs water, can explode, etc.

MFR bio generators should be good in 1.5.

 

[KirinDave]

So you would like MFR to force you to use it's generator with it's biofuel? Now that they are usable that might be ok. But you don't request that biofuel only runs in the forestry biofuel generator? Railcraft boilers is a different mod-- why should it consume fuel from forestry?

Isn't it more fun to be able to make biofuel in the reactor and run the fuel in whatever consumer I like?

It is also cool that it make useless farmables have a use.... just because forestry does not use the same farmables does not mean it is bad that you can get biofuel from them.


Also,
Tested the 1.5 generators. They have an internal MJ buffer. Consume biofuel to fill their buffer. Then output that to conduit/energy cells. They are not the most fuel efficient vs combution or boilers, but you can just put them on an MJ network and supply them with fuel. If something on the network demands energy they run. If something isn't consuming the energy they stop consuming biofuel.

Compare that to a boiler -- always on. If you don't use all the steam fuel is wasted.
Compare to a combustion engine -- on/off controlled through a buildcraft gate/manually. Needs water, can explode, etc.

MFR bio generators should be good in 1.5.

I'm going to aim for using them very early in my Let's Play, now. Here's hoping!

 

[Zjarek_S]

. I'm going to wait a bit to see how people end up actually using it in their setups before I tweak their numbers further. edit: thanks for the feedback.

So you want exploits? I decided to play 1.5.1 in that way (no GT, no "this is too cheaty" etc.).

My ultimate power source:

There are 3 bioreactors up here (was one, but I updated to 2.5.0B2) which power 16 geothermals via biofuel generators and lava fabricators and they use fraction of produced pumpkins. I use some pumpkins in main MJ production (http://i.imgur.com/kqDXcEs.png , refilled once because pumpkins last for very long time) or just take a few stacks to power quarries.

Also I think that large magma cube essence production in exact spawning mode is a bit too much:

(5 silk touch books so far).

 

[Peppe]

So you want exploits? I decided to play 1.5.1 in that way (no GT, no "this is too cheaty" etc.).

My ultimate power source:

Those IC2 crops?
Harvester works on IC2 crops?

 

[KirinDave]

Those IC2 crops?
Harvester works on IC2 crops?

Harvester works on EEEEVVVRRRRYYYTHING. It works on Pam's Crops and Mark's Crops now too. Watch the compat logs as your MC instance starts. It's really amazing.

 

[immibis]

As far as the AA goes, that's been covered. Material-wise it's actually comparable to the BC pump and it's admittedly a single-purpose device, something I usually resolve not to do.goal.

Wasn't TE 1 just a bunch of single purpose devices in one mod?

 

[hutchkc]

Harvester works on EEEEVVVRRRRYYYTHING. It works on Pam's Crops and Mark's Crops now too. Watch the compat logs as your MC instance starts. It's really amazing.

Oh great now I have to change my pants. I've been doing pumpkins manually as I like the IC2 crops for them.

 

[Chocorate]

Wasn't TE 1 just a bunch of single purpose devices in one mod?

What's so bad about single purpose machines?

Honestly I just like TE because it's so simple and its cool side configuration thing. I wish IC2 machines could use that idea. :/

 

[DoctorOr]

Oh great now I have to change my pants.

Sounds like you're a bit too excited.

 

[DoctorOr]

Railcraft beta now public. Queue whining about nerfs. Please take special care to blame GregTech.

http://adf.ly/NgO7c

 

[immibis]

What's so bad about single purpose machines?

Honestly I just like TE because it's so simple and its cool side configuration thing. I wish IC2 machines could use that idea. :/

Personally, I liked TE because it was just a bunch of simple but useful machines (like my own mod Tubestuff, actually) that anyone could just throw in a modpack to have things like aqueous accumulators. But now it has its own ores and stuff, which definitely don't fit with that idea.
Redstone conduits and liquiducts are awesome, but they would also fit better in a separate mod.

 

[hutchkc]

Sounds like you're a bit too excited.

Last week I saw a film, as I recall it was a horror film. I walked outside into the rain, checked my phone and saw you rang

 

[Peppe]

Railcraft beta now public. Queue whining about nerfs. Please take special care to blame GregTech.

http://adf.ly/NgO7c

What is the source of this link?

 

[EternalDensity]

DOCTOR OR WAS PHONE.

Anyhow, I'm rather concerned at the words 'galgadorian woodcutter'. Yikes! I will probably make do with a hardened one though. Fortunately I haven't had a cart randomly vanish... yet.

I hadn't thought of large magma cube essence production: awesome!
What if you run the enchanted books into a GT magical generator...

 

[Slaagathor]

It'll be interesting to see at what rate the durability wears out on the lower tier carts. Certainly gives a reason to go for the Galgadorian woodcutter module