i wonder what would happen if factorization took same approach....
anyway, shouldnt cross-mod balance be concern for ppl who make a mod pack?
Will be gregtech in the future FTB packs?
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anyway, shouldnt cross-mod balance be concern for ppl who make a mod pack?
Regarding multiplayer specifically: the other concern for people who make mod packs is having players want to play for a long time to justify the effort involved in preparing the pack.
Without GT's presence, assuming you know what you're doing it's possible to have maximum power equipment in two days and be bored in a week or less. GT spreading this progression out stops people getting bored as quickly - if of course they have the kind of mindset that would get them in full equipment in two days rather than taking their time of their own accord.
The real crux of the matter here is that GregTech as a mod fundamentally appeals to a different type of person than the one who can happily play Vanilla Minecraft, or someone who prefers to focus on making interesting builds for the sake of it. If you find the game without GT to be sensibly balanced (as many, many people do), you will not like GT, yet GT will stop the game getting boring too fast for a totally different kind of player.
That in particular means that GT should continue to use its current defaults, as they're doing their intended job perfectly.
Without GT's presence, assuming you know what you're doing it's possible to have maximum power equipment in two days and be bored in a week or less. GT spreading this progression out stops people getting bored as quickly - if of course they have the kind of mindset that would get them in full equipment in two days rather than taking their time of their own accord.
The real crux of the matter here is that GregTech as a mod fundamentally appeals to a different type of person than the one who can happily play Vanilla Minecraft, or someone who prefers to focus on making interesting builds for the sake of it. If you find the game without GT to be sensibly balanced (as many, many people do), you will not like GT, yet GT will stop the game getting boring too fast for a totally different kind of player.
That in particular means that GT should continue to use its current defaults, as they're doing their intended job perfectly.
Its simple realy. If you cant simulate a real life scenario you create a simple gameplay mechanic to replace it. MJ does this rather well with conductive pipes losing energy per block and conduits do this realy simplistic with a 5% loss upon entering the netwerk. EU on the otherhand creates an entirely made up set of rules that follows no real life logic or simplistic game design. Instead they try to make some sort of advanced simulator requiring you to study it before you can even begin to use it. Thats just bad game design ill gladly avoid
Power loss in real life is depend on cable type, installation, distance, and voltage right? Where as conduits and pipes just do it crappy % based loss which there little way to get no power loss. Yes I know eu is not exactly but hey I think it's a better "model" of real life energy transfer, transformers, usage, and storage. It's just keeping it simple for gaming purposes like who would like losing power in the Batbox hooked up to a few watermills when you start off anyway? Oh and you don't get get electricity damage when standing on pipes or conduits but you do on most IC2's cables. The thing I don't like for one is the stupidly high blast resistance of Glass Fiber cable.
well IC2 has all mats to create a system which may not be accurate, but would reflect reality to a some degree.
they could just make iron, copper and gold cables, which would reflect tiers that they have now, and it would also reflect that copper is better conductor than iron, and not making absurd tin and glass fiber.
Both of which he has said he will never add config options for due to how exploitable they were. And I agree with him on it. Tin buckets were fine until RP2 added the Alloy Furnace, which let you make iron out of tin, and scaffolds were fine until you could use them in a furnace/generator to get 16 times the amount of EU/smelt out then what you put into it's production(one log makes 16 scaffolds, basically, and if a scaffold generates the same about of EU as a plank or log...).
and who says that I'm playing with redpower so I'm not able to make my tin buckets? or who said I'm gonna burn scaffold instead of using it as scaffold?
just like steve carts nerfed the tree chopper just because it gives you easy charcoal for railcrafts boilers and forestry biomass, but who the hell said I'm using those mods? lemme do whatever I want, this is a sandbox game, if I want to get freaking tin buckets, who says I can't?
Yea exactly hate what's mod do, gotta ruin everybody just because a couple of people used the exploit. Like don't remember a lot of people using the classic 2048eu/t reactors full of uranium mixed in a little room for the ice. Most did the classic Collectors+Condensers supplied HV solar array farms.
Oh yay, this thread is still going.. I'll restate here what I had in a previous Gregtech related thread. If people are honestly finding it this difficult to browse through a text file setting various things from true, to false, than the FTB team should offer pre-configered Gregtech setups. Upon instillation of the Ultimate Pack (or any other packs containing Gregtech) you will be able to tick several options. There you go. Problem solved, all Gregtech related threads can now be dissolved.
Honestly though.. really? Does anyone who dislikes the idea of Gregtech actually read the patch notes of anything? Prior to adding Gregtech to my server, I knew exactly what I was getting into. I'd read via Greg's post on the IC2 forums that he had changed many things in an attempt to alter the speed at which a player progresses through the wonderful world of modded Minecraft. At this point I was perfectly capable of saying to myself, "I don't agree with this, Gregtech is not for me." I could than opt out of using it entirely, allowing those that prefer having access to the Advanced Pump, the IDSU, and the Centrifuge to live in peace.
Again, it isn't exactly a secret that Greg modifies the recipes of other mods, nor should it be frowned upon. Mods in general modify things, this is an understood truth or so I had believed. Stop creating issues where none should exist, that will also help with the dissolving of Gregtech threads.
One more quick thing, to the person who preferred MJ production over EU. Having a gargantuan array of engines, most of which require some form of redstone input for complete automation is a great way to drop the tickrate on someone's server. That being said, you can always opt for Electric Engines... oh..
Honestly though.. really? Does anyone who dislikes the idea of Gregtech actually read the patch notes of anything? Prior to adding Gregtech to my server, I knew exactly what I was getting into. I'd read via Greg's post on the IC2 forums that he had changed many things in an attempt to alter the speed at which a player progresses through the wonderful world of modded Minecraft. At this point I was perfectly capable of saying to myself, "I don't agree with this, Gregtech is not for me." I could than opt out of using it entirely, allowing those that prefer having access to the Advanced Pump, the IDSU, and the Centrifuge to live in peace.
Again, it isn't exactly a secret that Greg modifies the recipes of other mods, nor should it be frowned upon. Mods in general modify things, this is an understood truth or so I had believed. Stop creating issues where none should exist, that will also help with the dissolving of Gregtech threads.
One more quick thing, to the person who preferred MJ production over EU. Having a gargantuan array of engines, most of which require some form of redstone input for complete automation is a great way to drop the tickrate on someone's server. That being said, you can always opt for Electric Engines... oh..
If it included config file options, the response would be the same. Config it to your liking.
Only when (like the vast majority of mods) no such config file options exist should somebody ever utter a single complaint, much less others should pay attention.
You all can argue about "Gregtech defaults", but they're FTB defaults as well. They have either chosen the specific options present, or chosen to not change them, which is the exact same thing. Anybody even contemplating that their choices should be the defaults should be arguing with the FTB modpack makers instead.
Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. Tin buckets and scaffolding are hardly game changers. Also, as you say, it's a sandbox game. Cheat them in if you want them so badly.
the point here is not about cheating it in or being useful, is about sending a message... to greg why he doesn't add configs for that sort of stuff.
The bigger question is: Will Gregtech continue to be "the interesting content extension for IC2?"
The biggest problem Greg faces is that this isn't August 2012, everyone is playing heavily mixed modpack games and the modding scene is easily approached and heavily competitive. Given this, the progressions he's trying to maintain are under fire from all sides. Current example: mDiyo's Tinker's Construct tools really mess up Greg's precious metal treadmill and he's quite irritated. Last I saw, they were still at a impasse. Greg is probably right: TiC tools shouldn't allow you to break non-ore blocks for fortune. But it doesn't really matter who's right, the "right" answer is frequently "what mods are installed?"
This problem will only grow as Greg continues his move to Energy Independence™. He's supporting MJ and UE directly, but he basically totally ignores their ecosystems and the usual progressions thereof. He has that luxury so long as he keeps leaning on IC2, but if he does try to leap off it's going to be a total disaster. Because keeping a tightly controlled progression with the huge treadmills that Greg tries to install is crazy-hard to do in the modern minecraft environment. So hard that you'll need someone with encyclopedia-like knowledge of the popular mods paired with GT.
And being honest for a moment: GT mostly thrives as an extension to the stagnant content of IC2. People like IC2's basic ideas, but want more content and the only really large and diverse ecosystem is from Greg. Most other IC2 addons are small content packs, with even big ones like Gravisuite are tiny compared to even relatively small mods like Tinker's Construct, and the entire ecosystem is matched by big mods like Thaumcraft or Ars Magica.
The biggest problem Greg faces is that this isn't August 2012, everyone is playing heavily mixed modpack games and the modding scene is easily approached and heavily competitive. Given this, the progressions he's trying to maintain are under fire from all sides. Current example: mDiyo's Tinker's Construct tools really mess up Greg's precious metal treadmill and he's quite irritated. Last I saw, they were still at a impasse. Greg is probably right: TiC tools shouldn't allow you to break non-ore blocks for fortune. But it doesn't really matter who's right, the "right" answer is frequently "what mods are installed?"
This problem will only grow as Greg continues his move to Energy Independence™. He's supporting MJ and UE directly, but he basically totally ignores their ecosystems and the usual progressions thereof. He has that luxury so long as he keeps leaning on IC2, but if he does try to leap off it's going to be a total disaster. Because keeping a tightly controlled progression with the huge treadmills that Greg tries to install is crazy-hard to do in the modern minecraft environment. So hard that you'll need someone with encyclopedia-like knowledge of the popular mods paired with GT.
And being honest for a moment: GT mostly thrives as an extension to the stagnant content of IC2. People like IC2's basic ideas, but want more content and the only really large and diverse ecosystem is from Greg. Most other IC2 addons are small content packs, with even big ones like Gravisuite are tiny compared to even relatively small mods like Tinker's Construct, and the entire ecosystem is matched by big mods like Thaumcraft or Ars Magica.
Why was this exploitable and who ever cared? Everyone talks about this like it's a prime example of a cardinal sin Greg is fighting, but then he allows things like liquid obsidian secretly being basically solid copper and tin, with a fair sum of gold and silver. Whatever, right? I mean EU was used.
If Greg actually wanted to fix this, what he could of done was add a Tin Bucket or he could have "pulled a PowerCrystals" and overrode the bucket to add a history. His decision was far more political than practical.[DOUBLEPOST=1370239935][/DOUBLEPOST]
Reason 3: IC2's energy system is, design-wise, broken and very hard to scale properly. Especially if you have more than 2 usable voltages.
i wonder what he`s gonna do, when he finds out about iron dupe caused by railcraft and rp2 mix..
Since RP2 doesn't exist in 1.5x+, nothing for the moment. Pretty much any bugs/exploits that exist in 1.4.7 are there to stay, and the devs aren't going to go back and fix legacy versions.
Its simple realy. If you cant simulate a real life scenario you create a simple gameplay mechanic to replace it. MJ does this rather well with conductive pipes losing energy per block and conduits do this realy simplistic with a 5% loss upon entering the netwerk. EU on the otherhand creates an entirely made up set of rules that follows no real life logic or simplistic game design. Instead they try to make some sort of advanced simulator requiring you to study it before you can even begin to use it. Thats just bad game design ill gladly avoid
EU's system is more fun to figure out, except when you accidentally explode your mass fab (although by the time you have a mass fab you should understand the system). If you don't know anything at all about EU, and you just make a simple copper cable from A to B, you lose 0.625% of your energy per block - somewhere between stone and golden conductive pipes.
Then you find out you can decrease that to 0.156% per block by stepping the voltage up to HV and down again at the other end - but it's only worth it for medium-to-long distances because the transformers cost iron.
Then you discover that glass fibre cable makes the whole minigame worthless.