What I'm trying to say is nowadays it has no content unique to itself. Maybe that's a testament to how important the mod was. IC2 needs to evolve to keep up is what I'm truly saying, and I don't see that happening.
Why don't people like IC2 anymore?
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What I'm trying to say is nowadays it has no content unique to itself. Maybe that's a testament to how important the mod was. IC2 needs to evolve to keep up is what I'm truly saying, and I don't see that happening.
I think the issue is that the devs either made these problems even more significant (chain crafting) or they just naturally got worse (stale gameplay).
The thing with the energy is that I feel like the limit they set was far too harsh compared to how much power you can actually make. No single object can even create or run off of more than 10000 RF/t (TE's highest energy limit), but I can relatively easily make a reactor that's more powerful than any cable or storage can handle.
I just don't like the "grindification" of IC2. There's nothing inherently wrong with the idea of adding many many MANY crafting steps and choking down on resource gains in order to stretch out gameplay. Minecraft's strongpoint is that there's many different ways to enjoy it, with no way being wrong. However, the whole "lengthen playtime" style just isn't fun to me personally, so when I see IC2 heading further down that route, it just doesn't appeal to me.
Furthermore, I just dislike Greg as a developer and internet personality. Adding him to the main IC2 team just makes me question the judgment of the rest of the people involved and kinda casts the whole thing in a bad light for me regardless of whether he's there just to fix bugs. :/
Furthermore, I just dislike Greg as a developer and internet personality. Adding him to the main IC2 team just makes me question the judgment of the rest of the people involved and kinda casts the whole thing in a bad light for me regardless of whether he's there just to fix bugs. :/
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This is very interesting point. If we look at moded minecraft we can notice that general vector of mods points to the reduction of grinding. For instance vein miner and morph both enable quick start in the game and you can hardly find streamers without those modes. Plus after moving from Horizon to Technical and then to Monster I realized how little time I spend for gathering resources, the most time I was playing with mods and contraptions plus exploration of newly added dimensions.
IC2 forces people to start playing in "hardcore" style but I am afraid people are not asking for this, they want to play some kind of creative-exploration style with full freedom of chooses.
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for me, those things don't even interest me anymore... it's all just scaffolding/crops for me
IC2-Experimental kinda killed IC2, for me. Why? As was mentioned before, the "punishment as difficulty" was one of the main contributors. Let me just say that I don't really mind needing plates for some things, and the forge hammer is a reasonable way to acquire them. Hell, once PowerCraft comes back for 1.6+ (something on which I and others are working as we speak), it'll be a good thing for packs on which I play that contain both PowerCraft and IC2, since I'll be able to make those cool-looking iron frame blocks again, as the iron furnace needs iron plates instead of ingots. However, the energy net took a bit of a dive off the deep end and became even more brutal than usual, since now, even a single 1 EU/t solar panel can mean the difference between wires melting and/or machines blowing straight to hell. The latter, of course, has always bugged me about IC2.
Then, there's also the fact that other mods have come on the scene that do much of what IC2 does, only in a way that I, personally, find more enjoyable. Mekanism has simpler power transfer and better, more intuitive ore processing, along with the best automated mining of any mod I've ever encountered. Thermal Expansion's also a top contender for simpler, less intense power generation and transfer. Hell, even BuildCraft has better, more forgiving power than IC2. Its not the wires melting that I mind; wire is, for the most part, pretty cheap and easy to come by, especially later on in the game. I just don't like having craters because I accidentally got a wire crossed or misplaced something. You could have the machines break without having them explode. This also leads into the wrenching mechanics which are, have been, and seem as though they will always be supremely annoying. I shouldn't be punished for wanting to rearrange a few machines. Mekanism doesn't punish you that way. MineFactory Reloaded doesn't punish that way. Thermal Expansion doesn't do it, RedPower doesn't do it, the list goes on. That's something that seems to be completely unique to IC2, and that's not a good thing...for IC2.
I realize that the current build is labeled as "experimental," and a lot of this may likely change. That, however, doesn't change the fact that, as it is right now, IC2 is a supremely annoying mod that's being outstripped by its competition in almost every field.
Then, there's also the fact that other mods have come on the scene that do much of what IC2 does, only in a way that I, personally, find more enjoyable. Mekanism has simpler power transfer and better, more intuitive ore processing, along with the best automated mining of any mod I've ever encountered. Thermal Expansion's also a top contender for simpler, less intense power generation and transfer. Hell, even BuildCraft has better, more forgiving power than IC2. Its not the wires melting that I mind; wire is, for the most part, pretty cheap and easy to come by, especially later on in the game. I just don't like having craters because I accidentally got a wire crossed or misplaced something. You could have the machines break without having them explode. This also leads into the wrenching mechanics which are, have been, and seem as though they will always be supremely annoying. I shouldn't be punished for wanting to rearrange a few machines. Mekanism doesn't punish you that way. MineFactory Reloaded doesn't punish that way. Thermal Expansion doesn't do it, RedPower doesn't do it, the list goes on. That's something that seems to be completely unique to IC2, and that's not a good thing...for IC2.
I realize that the current build is labeled as "experimental," and a lot of this may likely change. That, however, doesn't change the fact that, as it is right now, IC2 is a supremely annoying mod that's being outstripped by its competition in almost every field.
This is MY problem with IC2. The added steps, and machines to solve those added steps, yield nothing but tedium unless paired with other mods. Well not even other mods, ONE mod. Without AE, IC2 is kinda just a bunch of blocks to run back and forth between.
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I thought that IC2 would kill 1.6 for me. While the mini steps of tedium have been added, it hasn't killed it for me yet. Still want flight, still want to make diamonds, still want reusable armor, and your not going to beat the IC2 Induction furnace at anything. Coal serves 0 purpose without IC2 so far. haven't gone into that upper tier of machinery yet though.
It seems like they wanted to make the mod unneccessarily complicated. Throwing iron in a furnace was annoying enough. I heard they wanted to remove some of the redundant steps or something along those lines... so they made it even more annoying to automate basically requiring an additional machine/tool ?
I posted this on another topic because I was actually a bit ticked off when I saw this while trying to get basic IC2 things started.
The main thing I used ic2 for was quantum armor.. requiring me to use the canner and all the mfsu, wires, matter fabricator to make iridium, etc.. that comes with it. I also liked the small numbers so i could easily determine my AE systems energy requirements on the fly. In my eternal day world I had an advanced solar powering my quantum bridge AE system.
The armor is good and the idea of getting free energy from the sun is great. I've done the IC2 dance since tekkit first "arrived" and it was always fun, but getting that first generator and macerator was the big "shtick" for me. TE does it better. NOT EASIER, BETTER. No need to mess with fussy cables that might explode hours/days of work and no need to figure out pipes that can't get their "mess" together. IC2 is too unforgiving for anyone who doesn't want to bother with figuring everything out ahead of time or messing up 1 calculation or accidently removing a transformer upgrade when you were trying to swap overclockers (yea.. more than once.. it sucks) and having to go back to square one. Not only with voltages, but even with that godawful wrench and "lossless mode" that i've accidently clicked off and lost a machine that took ages to make several times.
Anyway.. I'm going to try using other armor this time around. Too much effort, not enough reward. With EE rings in tekkit and Gravichest last couple/few rounds, it was well worth it, but I don't know about that anymore.
I posted this on another topic because I was actually a bit ticked off when I saw this while trying to get basic IC2 things started.
The main thing I used ic2 for was quantum armor.. requiring me to use the canner and all the mfsu, wires, matter fabricator to make iridium, etc.. that comes with it. I also liked the small numbers so i could easily determine my AE systems energy requirements on the fly. In my eternal day world I had an advanced solar powering my quantum bridge AE system.
The armor is good and the idea of getting free energy from the sun is great. I've done the IC2 dance since tekkit first "arrived" and it was always fun, but getting that first generator and macerator was the big "shtick" for me. TE does it better. NOT EASIER, BETTER. No need to mess with fussy cables that might explode hours/days of work and no need to figure out pipes that can't get their "mess" together. IC2 is too unforgiving for anyone who doesn't want to bother with figuring everything out ahead of time or messing up 1 calculation or accidently removing a transformer upgrade when you were trying to swap overclockers (yea.. more than once.. it sucks) and having to go back to square one. Not only with voltages, but even with that godawful wrench and "lossless mode" that i've accidently clicked off and lost a machine that took ages to make several times.
Anyway.. I'm going to try using other armor this time around. Too much effort, not enough reward. With EE rings in tekkit and Gravichest last couple/few rounds, it was well worth it, but I don't know about that anymore.
I like the changes in IC2exp because they are changes. From what I gather the mod has sat basically unchanged for what 3 MC versions?
The new energy-net? Hey now you cannot have all the power flowing down a laggy pipe. Sure you now have to be careful about how many generators you plunk down but maybe we can get a config for that? Since it is still in development and half the things people were complaining about a month ago were changed? Please?
As for the metal former stuff, ok it's a little harder to automate...or you can pay a renewable resource tax to make it simple, just like AE.
I still use IC2 for some things, just like I use TE and some filthy Mek stuff. I have not 'fully' used a mod - where I use every part of it exclusively- since the pistons mod.
Also: are the tooltips waila or vanilla IC2? Cause they are fine and dandy and now I can use the mod without having to look up power stuff on the wiki.
The new energy-net? Hey now you cannot have all the power flowing down a laggy pipe. Sure you now have to be careful about how many generators you plunk down but maybe we can get a config for that? Since it is still in development and half the things people were complaining about a month ago were changed? Please?
As for the metal former stuff, ok it's a little harder to automate...or you can pay a renewable resource tax to make it simple, just like AE.
I still use IC2 for some things, just like I use TE and some filthy Mek stuff. I have not 'fully' used a mod - where I use every part of it exclusively- since the pistons mod.
Also: are the tooltips waila or vanilla IC2? Cause they are fine and dandy and now I can use the mod without having to look up power stuff on the wiki.
That's the problem. People want everything handed to them in 4 hours.
THAT's the problem. Survival mode minecraft was never designed to be anything more than a casual game. trying to turn a casual game into an intense, high-investment game is what feels so wrong. sandbox was made for big projects... survival was made for making a house and hiding in it from zombies.
It's great that there is crossover, but it's PLAYER CREATIVITY that is supposed to require huge amounts of investment, not game mechanics. That was one of the reasons early redpower was so popular... there was no mining or 'quarrying' machine, but you had all the tools neccessary to invent your OWN mining or quarrying machine.
That was and is the biggest problem with IC2... all the craft and creativity is sucked right out on the road to quantum armor, and replaced with developer-designed chain grinding. Early IC2 and buildcraft were nothing more than TOOLS to be utilized alongside the great toolkit that was redpower, and without it, they both feel hollow, dried-out. They feel like nothing more than magic boxes to do what early minecraft players were proud of doing with nothing but the basic tools in minecraft, redstone wiring, blockbreakers, deployers, and frames.
Now that 'building giant machines' to automate each self-assigned minecraft task has been relegated to the junk heap, they are left without end goals. All that's left is the four hour casual game. People are in the process of trying to find a 'new minecraft' without redpower, and all the automation tools in the world don't make up for that wondrous feeling of making your first redstone flip-flop to power your automatic cobble-making contraption, the 'tree chopper' that uses birch because giant oak trees break it and blows through bonemeal like mad, and the enormous underground mob farm with a 'blade' made out of a ladder and a bucket of lava that regularly spewed out arrows, bones, and feathers.
Now we have automatic tree farmers, fifty pipes in a block, timers, obsidian machines, peaceful tables, and nerve gas. IC2 has morphed from a quickie tool to use to obtain the resources needed for the 'big projects' and is expected to carry the load itself... and frankly, it falls short of both expectations and fun factor.
Redpower is gone. Maybe it's time to start ditching the artifacts of it's heyday as well.
It's great that there is crossover, but it's PLAYER CREATIVITY that is supposed to require huge amounts of investment, not game mechanics. That was one of the reasons early redpower was so popular... there was no mining or 'quarrying' machine, but you had all the tools neccessary to invent your OWN mining or quarrying machine.
That was and is the biggest problem with IC2... all the craft and creativity is sucked right out on the road to quantum armor, and replaced with developer-designed chain grinding. Early IC2 and buildcraft were nothing more than TOOLS to be utilized alongside the great toolkit that was redpower, and without it, they both feel hollow, dried-out. They feel like nothing more than magic boxes to do what early minecraft players were proud of doing with nothing but the basic tools in minecraft, redstone wiring, blockbreakers, deployers, and frames.
Now that 'building giant machines' to automate each self-assigned minecraft task has been relegated to the junk heap, they are left without end goals. All that's left is the four hour casual game. People are in the process of trying to find a 'new minecraft' without redpower, and all the automation tools in the world don't make up for that wondrous feeling of making your first redstone flip-flop to power your automatic cobble-making contraption, the 'tree chopper' that uses birch because giant oak trees break it and blows through bonemeal like mad, and the enormous underground mob farm with a 'blade' made out of a ladder and a bucket of lava that regularly spewed out arrows, bones, and feathers.
Now we have automatic tree farmers, fifty pipes in a block, timers, obsidian machines, peaceful tables, and nerve gas. IC2 has morphed from a quickie tool to use to obtain the resources needed for the 'big projects' and is expected to carry the load itself... and frankly, it falls short of both expectations and fun factor.
Redpower is gone. Maybe it's time to start ditching the artifacts of it's heyday as well.
Who has this problem GT, IC2? Look around what people do in the mean time, they combine magic with technique packs. They grow diamonds and start flying after killing the first bat, with single click you get resources you need. This is strange thinking that people's problem that they do not want any longer do what they were already doing for a few years.
while in another mean time you have golems,alice dolls... err and maids (I miss them little maids) guarding your house killing mobs and or tending your livestock and farm while your busy building your technological wonder... a tunnel bore LOL not just any arcane bore but an MFFS tunnel bore
Just because there are some mods that have those really easy aspects, that does not follow that everyone uses them. I don't have Morph on my modpack for that very reason. And while I might be able to grow diamonds with Magical Crops, the amount of magical essence needed for that is truly prodigious.
EDIT: I should also let it be noted that my modpack does currently have IC2, but I'm considering dropping it for future revisions as it's intercompatibility with TE and RotaryCraft is kinda weak.
EDIT: I should also let it be noted that my modpack does currently have IC2, but I'm considering dropping it for future revisions as it's intercompatibility with TE and RotaryCraft is kinda weak.
I can tell you why people have gone off IC2, it's plain and simple...
The recipes are now more complicated to make the EXACT same thing we were making months ago... Now maybe the modders should ask themselves how making something more complicated to make which is exactly the same machine as it was months ago, would appeal to ANYONE at all.
The recipes are now more complicated to make the EXACT same thing we were making months ago... Now maybe the modders should ask themselves how making something more complicated to make which is exactly the same machine as it was months ago, would appeal to ANYONE at all.
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