Why Does Everyone Care So Much About Expense

[SatanicSanta]

I recently started noticing everyones worry for the cheapness/expensiveness of machines, and other things in FTB. Why? Why does it matter if you need to use all of your resources to build something? There are infinite resources in FTB (especially since MystCraft exists). I have some examples (mostly cause of GregTech):
This is on an Ultimate Server over a skype call

Spoiler

Host: Why can't I craft diamond blocks?
Me: Well, we are playing on Ultimate, you have to make an industrialcraft compressor.
H: Oh my god! That is ridiculous!?
Me: Well not really, all you need is a generator and a compressor.
H: Well I shouldn't have to do that! That's ridiculous!
M: Not really, all you need is 8 cobblestone, 6 smoothstone, 12 refined iron, 4 redstone, 4 tin, 6 copper and 12 rubber. It's not very expensive.
Friend: Yeah, and also, you cheat everything in anyway, so why do you care?
H: No, I'm not doing that, nope, I am not making a fucking compressor, and something to fucking power the compressor just so I can some fucking diamond blocks. Nope.
(Cheats in a few diamond blocks and a few iron blocks)
*sigh*
M: I just made 3 compressors.

Another instance on the same server:
H: HOLY SHIT ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?
Friend and Me: What?
H: You need titanium for a fucking BuildCraft Quarry now!? What the fuck!
M: Yeah, that's GregTech.
F: The Quarry is super overpowered for just a few diamonds anyway.
H: I would be okay with this but there isn't a recipe for it in NEI!
M: Ummm.. Yes there is. You need titanium dust in an industrial blast furnace, and to get titanium dust you need an industrial electrolyzer.
H: I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO DO THAT! I SHOULD JUST BE ABLE TO SET UP SOME BUILDCRAFT POWER SYSTEM, TAKE SOME GODDAMN DIAMONDS AND MAKE A FUCKING QUARRY! NO. NO. I AM NOT GOING TO MAKE SOME FUCKING TITANIUM JUST FOR A QUARRY. NO. I'M SORRY, I'M JUST NOT GOING TO DO THAT!
(probably cheats in titanium)
M: Look, you seem to have a lot of issues with GT, why don't you just play on the Direwolf20 pack? It is pretty much just Ultimate - GT.
H: I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO DO THAT. GREG SHOULDN'T BE CHANGING FUCKING RECIPES FOR VANILLA MINECRAFT THINGS, AND BUILDCRAFT THINGS. NO.
M: I agree he shouldn't change BuildCraft recipes, I don't mind because I agree with him that Quarries are super powerful, especially for what they do and are made from. You can get tons of diamonds just from 11 diamonds and some power.
F: Also, you cheat everything in, why do you care?
H: IF YOU CARE THAT I CHEAT, PLAY ON A DIFFERENT FUCKING SERVER. I SHOULD JUST UNFRIEND YOU ALL BECAUSE THIS SEEMS TO BE CAUSING ISSUES!
F: I plan on playing on another server, I just haven't been put on the whitelist.
(awkward silence for about 10 minutes, I notice my friend gets whitelisted, and we leave.)

So again, why does it matter in a sandbox video game with unlimited resources how expensive something is?

 

[Cammino]

Haha i enjoyed the text

I dont think that those guys youve written with care about expensive items, i think they were just angry because the gregtech mod changed recipes of items they need at the moment and it was just a shock for them.

i know this feeling when i started playing with gregtech i also wondered and wasnt really motivated to collect all this titanium and stuff because i didnt want to learn how to do so but hey they will learn it. beginning is hard.

 

[KirinDave]

The thing that is not infinite is my time to play the game. Progression mechanics need to be handled delicately in Minecraft so that they give me a sense of value without giving me a sense of tedium. Gregtech fails at this more than any other mod.

I have a day job. I have a family I love. I have a few side projects. I maintain a modpack and a testing server for FTBers. I love to take my time making coffee. I wake up early so I can bike to work. All this stuff is stuff I am doing while you are grinding for a fusion reactor.

You can, of course, call that all horsecrap and make the fusion reactor. For me, the value is clear.

 

[DoctorOr]

So again, why does it matter in a sandbox video game with unlimited resources how expensive something is?

Resources are not unlimited as a function of time.

 

[Bigglesworth]

Its not about how expensive they are to me, its about logical progression. If it takes a machine that requires more power than the item I want will produce anyway, that item becomes irrelevant in the process of making it. (Cough gregtech basic solar panel Cough)

 

[DoctorOr]

Its not about how expensive they are to me, its about logical progression. If it takes a machine that requires more power than the item I want will produce anyway, that item becomes irrelevant in the process of making it. (Cough gregtech basic solar panel Cough)

Solar is not power positive in the short term. Just like real life!

 

[SatanicSanta]

Haha i enjoyed the text

I dont think that those guys youve written with care about expensive items, i think they were just angry because the gregtech mod changed recipes of items they need at the moment and it was just a shock for them.

i know this feeling when i started playing with gregtech i also wondered and wasnt really motivated to collect all this titanium and stuff because i didnt want to learn how to do so but hey they will learn it. beginning is hard.

It was the same three people... On the same night. He has been using FTB Ultimate since it came out in Private packs, GregTech shouldn't be a surprise to him.

The thing that is not infinite is my time to play the game. Progression mechanics need to be handled delicately in Minecraft so that they give me a sense of value without giving me a sense of tedium. Gregtech fails at this more than any other mod.

I have a day job. I have a family I love. I have a few side projects. I maintain a modpack and a testing server for FTBers. I love to take my time making coffee. I wake up early so I can bike to work. All this stuff is stuff I am doing while you are grinding for a fusion reactor.

You can, of course, call that all horsecrap and make the fusion reactor. For me, the value is clear.

Obviously time is not infinite, but tons of people spend all day playing video games but still complain about resources *cough cough* guy in my OP *cough cough*

Resources are not unlimited as a function of time.

They are nearly unlimited...

Its not about how expensive they are to me, its about logical progression. If it takes a machine that requires more power than the item I want will produce anyway, that item becomes irrelevant in the process of making it. (Cough gregtech basic solar panel Cough)

Those damn solar panels, man, they are so ridiculous. Whatever, solar power is infinite power. I usually start with thermal power anyway.

 

[whizzball1]

The way I do it is by changing the configs over time.
I start with Easy mode, and as I get more resources, I go back into hard mode and start crafting the things with the hard recipes to give me a little more of a sense of work.
Of course it is a false sense, but whatever.
I feel that some things are just a little too Expensive for how OP they are.
So I change.
Then I change back.
And forth.
And back again.
It really isn't that hard.

 

[SatanicSanta]

The serverhost that I was using wanted to change all of the configs (and did with some) because he is too lazy to spend an hour mining. He enabled all copper, tin, ruby, and every other shared resource spawning. I ended up with a bunch of different IDs for all of my resources. I asked him to change the configs back to the way they were originally supposed to be, and he yelled at me to just use the Forge Lexicon. FORGE LEXICONS CAN BE AUTOMATED, YOU DUMBASS! It all kinda comes down to him being lazy in a video game, which is just plain stupid.

 

[Fuzzlewhumper]

Too bad there isn't a mod that worked off of /difficulty to modify things like:
Recipes, energy costs, energy production, storage capacities, etc... Things that people commonly associate with balance.

So if you want to play the game without hassle but not without features, /difficulty 1
If ya want it to be somewhat more expensive but not too intense, /difficulty 2
And for full on hard recipes, expensive energy, etc..., /difficulty 3

Of course, perhaps it would be best to make it a separate thing from /difficultly so people could play on hard and have easy recipes/energy production.

But I didn't see where someone made a mod like that or if it's even possible to modify recipes on the fly.

 

[Bigglesworth]

Those damn solar panels, man, they are so ridiculous. Whatever, solar power is infinite power. I usually start with thermal power anyway.

They may be infinit, but basically everything else is anyway, plus they dont work if not under sunlight and give off a laughable amount of energy considering what it takes to make the first one. The step up I can see being harder to make, but the basic one? Its stupid. Its not even that its hard to make, its just not worth it.

 

[Saice]

I have mixed feelings on cost in mods.

I do feel there needs to be some sort of progession. But I also feel some mods take that to far.

But here is the thing. No I do not care about YOUR expense. Many of these mods have configures and you are totaly in your right to tweek the game to they way you want to play. And really no one should have an issue with that.

Server play I'll grant you is its own thing. With there your looking for some sort of agreed middle ground and if you have issues with cost mod are set to on a server I will always suggest taking it up with your community on said server.

But otherwise... Play how you like to play. Heck get the repcie replacer mod and make everything cost dirt and sticks if that is how you like it. MC and Modded MC are about having fun in your own little sand box.

 

[WaterTipper]

Well, I play with the Mindcrack modpack so no Mystcraft for me.
Most of the resources are fully renewable though, especially with GregTech and ExtraBees.

I don't really care too much about how expensive a recipe is, but if IC2 decides to freak out and disintegrate everything that I just made, then I'm mad.

 

[PoisonWolf]

That was a funny read. But as others as pointed out, time is the issue. If Bees did not exist, I would not bother with FTB in general. There is no way in hell my buddy and I would even contemplate playing Mindcrack without Bees. It was only through bees that we could get a stack of iridium ingots in a little over an hour, as often as needed.

 

[Hydra]

I recently started noticing everyones worry for the cheapness/expensiveness of machines, and other things in FTB. Why? Why does it matter if you need to use all of your resources to build something? There are infinite resources in FTB (especially since MystCraft exists).

There is only one finite resource: time. People aren't concerned it takes you 1000 diamonds to craft something, what they are concerned about is the amount of time it takes to get those diamonds.

 

[DZCreeper]

How are they allowed to cheat in items? A little ranking magic with the teams option in 1.5 and I can give ranks with colors without a Bukkit plugin. Just deop them.

 

[SatanicSanta]

How are they allowed to cheat in items? A little ranking magic with the teams option in 1.5 and I can't give ranks with colors without a Bukkit plugin. Just deop them.

He is the serverhost/admin. It's his server, on his computer.

There is only one finite resource: time. People aren't concerned it takes you 1000 diamonds to craft something, what they are concerned about is the amount of time it takes to get those diamonds.

Most machines only take a little bit of time and some effort and thought. People are scared of things that require more than one machine to make.

 

[Hydra]

Most machines only take a little bit of time and some effort and thought. People are scared of things that require more than one machine to make.

Can you provide some example of what people are saying / claiming in this regard? Because this is not what I've seen being discussed on these forums.

 

[SatanicSanta]

Can you provide some example of what people are saying / claiming in this regard? Because this is not what I've seen being discussed on these forums.

Well, now that I actually need an example all I can find is GT appreciation. As soon as I find one I will post it.

 

[SatanicSanta]

Aha! Someone who is too lazy to use NEI! http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/thr...for-good-gregtech-gone-mad.20769/#post-286971