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1. Biggest thing: I like the win conditions, in that they're different than what we normally do, but be aware that this game hinges on two very squishy roles. It could end within a night. If this wasn't intentional, you could fix it by giving Ugin and Bolas some kind of built-in protection; Maybe x role has to die before Ugin can be killed, or y role will always take the hit for his leader at the time. Something like that.
That's a good point; in MTG lore, both Bolas and Ugin (and Sarkhan (but not Yasova)) are "planeswalkers", which means they can warp between different planes in the Multiverse. So they could potentially do that to dodge attacks, which I could emulate here by giving them multiple lives or a chance to dodge attacks.
2. Sarkhan's "everybody wins" option may be too easy to achieve. If Ugin decides to reveal himself on the first day... Everyone wins. Sarkhan watches, Bolas kills, boom. Maybe he has to watch Bolas on the night of the kill instead?
Bolas comes to Tarkir with some kind of grudge against Ugin. He finds Yasova and convinces her to help him kill Ugin. Sarkhan appears on Tarkir, sent there through time by Ugin's ghost in a different timeline, and runs into Yasova. She tells him what's going on, and he goes dragon-form and races to find Ugin before it's too late. Then, Bolas starts to to take on Ugin head-on, so Ugin calls up a whole bunch of dragons he had already spawned to help. Yasova then takes this time to work some mind-control magic, turning all the dragons against Ugin, who is quickly overpowered and falls from the sky just as Sarkhan reverts to human form to dodge Yasova's spell. Bolas leaves the plane, thinking Ugin is dead; while Sarkhan uses an artifact taken from the future to form a kind of stone cocoon surrounding Ugin, where he recuperates for the next thousand years.
Sarkhan's ability represents this. I consider this a "loss" for Bolas (as Ugin is still alive), so there is no win-win outcome.
2.1: After re-reading, it sounds like Bolas doesn't actually win if Ugin's killed while Sarkhan's watching. That solves the problem way better than my fix. Confirm?
3. It sounds like Bolas and Dragonclaw can both permanently convert someone to their side each night, in addition to the wolfkill. That will make for a very short game. Which is fine, especially with the cut-off-the-head type win conditions, but just keep it in mind. You could fix it hard-capping the amount of players that can be with Bolas at any one time, or by giving Bolas/Dragonclaw x converts each before their power runs out. Or, instead of their power running out, they can only take control of someone for one night after their permanent conversions are gone.
One potential fix would be to make the conversion temporary- Yasova's card, at least, can only take control of a creature for one turn. So maybe the Converted ability only lasts for a few days?
3.1: Note: If you're aiming for a race-to-the-finish type thing with this game, where the Natives have to rush to find Bolas before they're completely outnumbered, ignore those three things. It could be a quick game, and the Conspirators will stomp, but it might turn out pretty well. I had a normalish game pacing in mind when I was writing.
5. Ugin: Rad. How many alts do you think you'll need? As many as you have players? Will each player get a unique alt? Regarding the "If an alt is targeted by an ability, it goes through to the alt's controller normally": I think alts should follow the manifestation scrambling rule. It'll already be easy to see who's manifested at any given time (since they won't be voting in the game thread), so they'll need any extra protection they can get.
I'll certainly need no more than two alts for each day, and most likely less than that since I can recycle alts as players un-manifest. If this is a short game, not many will be needed at all... Ten alts would definitely last at least five days, which is almost certainly enough for one side or the other to track down the opponents' elder dragon.
As for the alt manifestation scrambling: Point taken. I've removed that rule.
Not currently, but I could have watching divine the player's targets. Only thing is, I don't really want "do I watch the guy who I think is Ugin in case he gets murderised, or do I watch somebody else for reconnaissance purposes" to be a question that Sarkhan has to make. Then again, Ugin is the only role in this lineup with multiple targets, so watching players would help Sarkhan seek Ugin out... I like it.
No-risk bodyguard with one night cooldown sounds OK then? Or should I buff it since this is likely to be a short game?
If I removed the cooldown, then it'd be better then Wardscale for the Cleric, but wouldn't kill the attacker. Might work... thoughts?
An even stronger ability would be "Any abilities (save lynch and Shrieker) used on the protected player fail", but that doesn't really have the right flavor.
No and no. Bolas's description uses the word "humanoid", which I use to refer to humans and all other sentient four-limbed bipedal creatures, including efreet (evil djinns... sort of), naga (snake people (ok, so that's a bit of a stretch, since they have a snake-like tail rather than legs)), aven (bird people), ainok (dog people), orcs, goblins, etc... And that's just Tarkir. So everything on this rolesheet save the Dragons (which have six limbs, counting the wings) and maybe the Yeti (depending on intelligence).
10. Rider: Bee's knees.
11. Whisperer: Hip.
12. Wardscale: Far out, man.
13. Icefall: Psychadelic. The "actual ability" would've made him a stellar troll.
Agreed. The relevant part of Icefall Regent's card's text reads as follows: "When Icefall Regent enters the battlefield, tap target creature an opponent controls. That creature doesn't untap during its controller's untap step for as long as you control Icefall Regent." A tapped creature cannot attack, block, or use any abilities that it may have that could be used instead of attacking or blocking. In WW terms, "On N1 or when you are revived, choose a player. That player is a vanillager until you die."
Would it make more sense for this ability to only work a few times in the game, or for it to have a cooldown? I guess a cooldown fits the flavor better and would answer questions relating to the Ventmaw below. How's "every third day" sound, power-wise?
One thing to keep in mind here is that Bolas' and Yasova's abilities only work on half of the players, so without some more info, they're as likely as not to hit the wrong people.
A rough draft for SpyWolf: A Tale of Three Countries. I welcome feedback on this; it's my first stab at making a Spy-themed game. (I do need to draw up some tables to assist me with this, but that's a later job.)
A rough draft for SpyWolf: A Tale of Three Countries. I welcome feedback on this; it's my first stab at making a Spy-themed game. (I do need to draw up some tables to assist me with this, but that's a later job.)
Could be interesting. So two teams that want each other dead, and one smaller team with a daily nightkill that wants both of the other teams dead; and everyone can use a somewhat inaccurate seer role if they don't want to use their other ability.
Only thing I can say is deciding between trying the seer thing or using another power could be a very annoying decision. But if that's your intent, fine by me.
Only thing I can say is deciding between trying the seer thing or using another power could be a very annoying decision. But if that's your intent, fine by me.
A rough draft for SpyWolf: A Tale of Three Countries. I welcome feedback on this; it's my first stab at making a Spy-themed game. (I do need to draw up some tables to assist me with this, but that's a later job.)
Update to the TarkirWolf rolesheet: I buffed both Ugin and Bolas, to make them immune to other power roles trying to kill them. Ugin now auto-manifests himself whenever he would be hit by any of the killing roles (so the kill is instead shunted to a different manifestation), and Bolas is just flat-out immune.
I also changed manifestation slightly; any power (save Sarkhan or the Whisperer) aimed at a manifested player will always be redirected to a different manifested player. This was to make Ugin's auto-manifestation thing essentially grant complete protection.
Do note that neither of these abilities have any impact on the lynch. Both elder dragons will still die immediately if lynched.
What do you guys think of these changes? This was mainly to prevent the game ending suddenly due to a lucky use of one of those powers. I didn't want to have Ugin and Bolas auto-revive or something, because that would instantly reveal their role, and then they would just get killed again the next night.
Update to the TarkirWolf rolesheet: I buffed both Ugin and Bolas, to make them immune to other power roles trying to kill them. Ugin now auto-manifests himself whenever he would be hit by any of the killing roles (so the kill is instead shunted to a different manifestation), and Bolas is just flat-out immune.
I also changed manifestation slightly; any power (save Sarkhan or the Whisperer) aimed at a manifested player will always be redirected to a different manifested player. This was to make Ugin's auto-manifestation thing essentially grant complete protection.
Do note that neither of these abilities have any impact on the lynch. Both elder dragons will still die immediately if lynched.
What do you guys think of these changes? This was mainly to prevent the game ending suddenly due to a lucky use of one of those powers. I didn't want to have Ugin and Bolas auto-revive or something, because that would instantly reveal their role, and then they would just get killed again the next night.
I think that's a cool workaround, although the village will be pretty much unable to win once Bolas gets a majority. Just something to keep in mind. Can Ugin or Bolas be smited?
By the way, guys, I'll be MIA from Tuesday to Friday next week. Might have to skip out on TarkirWolf. Sorry, SE.
Hmm... would it help if Icefall Regent could roleblock the elder dragons' immunity? In that case, the village could still win if there's an unconverted Icefall and Acid-Spewer or Lightning Shrieker who both target Bolas at the same time. Not much, but it might help... maybe?
There's nothing currently in the rules that says they can't. Maybe I'll partially forego the totally-random role-choosing process I used in AltSanity 1 and give those roles to players who aren't likely to miss votes.
Alternatively, if a Bolas or Ugin have to drop out, I might be able to swap their roles with a different player. Or would that just be too much confusion?
I'll be sure to tell you how it worked out in the end when you return. Then again, the post-game discussion is public anyway, so you'll be able to see it.
