Oh right, I know, I owned one, nearly set my bloody leg on fire, lost it at the end of the camping trip.I really debated on whether or not to reply to this, because I agree with you, but I was mainly referring to the fact that flint & iron works just fine IRL to start fires.
Ultimate 1.0.2 GregTech recipes
- Thread starter DRH1469
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Not everyone uses that mod though. Having a mod in existence that makes something obsolete does not mean you should balance around the fact that said mod exists.
You could still do this. Quite easily.
That's true.
Not everyone uses GT, either. In fact, if you don't play with mods like AE, I wouldn't advise using GT. GT is balanced around mods like AE so that mods working together don't make the game obscenely boring.
If you're using GT and you don't have access to some form of crafting automation, then something went horribly wrong. I don't see the point of using a mod and complaining about it. Not only are there work arounds to the complaints, but GT is so vastly configurable that it's amazing there's even anything to complain about at all.
That was the only part that made no sense to me. Are you saying mod interaction without GT is boring or that unless you have AE(read autocrafting) playing with GT would be boring?
Oh, I meant that strictly for myself, mod interaction without GT is boring.
Of course, that's just me. Minecraft for me is a game of supply and demand. You need supply to meet the demand. With vanilla mod recipes, your supply will always be vastly larger than your demand. GT helps with that by adding resources that are a bit harder to acquire.
Some people can survive purely off creativity, but I can't. Hence why I play on survival.
I don't like the way Greg seems to be going towards "LOL make everything just take longer to craft!"
The assembling machine, for example, is ridiculous. It's only purpose is to make recipes take longer. I don't even know why there's recipes for torches and levers and things in there - why would anyone ever use those?
The assembling machine, for example, is ridiculous. It's only purpose is to make recipes take longer. I don't even know why there's recipes for torches and levers and things in there - why would anyone ever use those?
Overclock them
If in doubt, throw overclockers at the speed problem until it goes away.
Universal LiaraTec solution.
It's funny how people keep making stuff up to defend choices that just make stuff tedious.
GT and it's ways of making stuff tedious outdates AE by ages.
I think the multiblock stuff greg does is awesome. I personally just think he doesn't understand anything about gamedesign due to the way he makes actually crafting the stuff he added so incredibly boring. AE currently alleviates this issue but before AE project tables more or less did the same.
Greg is 'hiding' the fact that there isn't actually all that much content in his mod by making the stuff he adds take a LONG time to craft. If he had not done that, you'd see that most of the stuff is just "slightly better" versions of what's already there. He's adding timesinks to a game, a bit like Blizzard did with wow: long and tedious reputation grinds just to get some items. This is very much pre-2005 game design. Games simply don't work like that anymore and only very few designers still work in that mindset.
I'm still hoping Greg someday comes to his senses and starts focussing on adding new interesting stuff (setting up the automation for a fusion reactor is interesting, it's just that crafting the stuff is incredibly boring) instead of trying to find ways to make is stuff take longer to craft. Stuff taking longer is NOT hard!
People who think Greg is doing something good with these timesinks are a curse to gaming. We should NOT accept game designers adding timesinks to games, we should support game designers that add content instead.
Survival is a timesink to any game that calls itself a sandbox. Should we boycott Mojang?
There's one big difference between Greg and Blizzard. This difference, as it happens, is the reason why the two can't be compared in terms of why they did what they did.
GregTech is free. World of Warcraft is not. GregTech gains nothing by adding time sinks, as anything he does to his mod certainly isn't based on how long a player uses his mod, or plays Minecraft. Blizzard, on the other hand, uses a month-to-month subscription plan that absolutely depends on how long a player is interested in their game.
Like it or not, timesinks are content. Content has to have a careful balance of time required to complete, and enjoyment derived during the completion process. Naturally, this balance shifts from player to player. Some players prefer shorter games, while others like to be held for a while longer, even if the cost is some repetitive content.
GregTech adds some much-needed balance to my FTB worlds. Without it, there'd be no difference between my playing survival and creative. Resources are completely negligible in every sense of the word.
Thankfully, and most importantly, you do not have to use GregTech hardmode, or even GregTech period. I find it astounding how many times I have to bring it up. Greg specifically added a highly-adjustable configuration file specifically for the people who felt it necessary to complain about something that apparently isn't all that hard. Now people complain about something that not only isn't hard to them, but also is not even remotely mandatory.
Sorry but what? Explain what you mean?
I think you're not understanding what a timesink actually is. There's nothing wrong with stuff taking time, that's not a timesink. It's only a timesink if the only purpose of a task is to take a certain amount of time. Vanilla minecraft doesn't have any timesinks that I am aware of.
Doesn't matter. A game is a game, and a game involves good and bad gamedesign. Adding timesinks is a bad design that most players these days don't accept anymore because it's artifical padding. I'm not saying Gregtech can't do what he does (how can I? I can decide for Greg nor for Blizzard what they do), I'm just stating my opinion in that it's bad design.
I think you don't understand timesinks. Content that takes time is not a timesink. Everything takes time. But killing a mob 10000 times isn't content, and neither is waiting on a machine to finish whatever it's doing. Repeating things over and over is not content even though some game designers want to convince you it is. It's just padding to make the game longer.
And all Greg does is make you build a few more quarries. Are you seriously saying that building more quarries gives you more pleasure? For me the pleasure in FTB is building good looking bases where pretty much everything is automated. I don't need to go and smelt iron into refined iron because my base keeps a stock of 1000 refined iron for me. That's fun, AE gives me tools to play with and use as I see fit. Just like Vanilla minecraft; it gives you a sandbox that allows you to build a million things. Gregtech hoever makes you spend more time to actually DO stuff. So by using gregtech you actually achieve less because in the end the only thing that's really limited is time. And I don't know about you but in my life there's very little time and a very large amount of stuff to do in FTB.
Completely not relevant. I don't use it (our server switched from Ultimate to DW20 because of a couple of reasons) but I do enjoy a discussion about game design and I simply don't understand why some people seem to accept or even enjoy the artificial padding that GregTech is adding not only to it's own stuff but also to recipies of other mods. And I find it funny how people claim it makes there game harder as if it's something to be proud of. You're letting some dude waste your time with useless padding and you're proud of it? You should be ashamed!
I turn it the other way round.
gregtech adds a lot of machines, which raises the efficiency of ore processing and energyproduction, it follows IC2 in this manner.
the price is added complexity and higher risks... everyone knows the tendency of gregtech machines to change their state quite violently if someone handles them not properly.
gregtech has some very complex recipies, and it's good that a mod like applied energistics exists, because it deals with the annoying part of GT.
and regarding the high end stuff (machines that need chrome or even iridium): of course it can be solved by setting up more quarries, or a frame-tunnelbore or another way of autmated mining. everyone is swimming in iron, tin, copper and so on.
let's see what greg adds to the mod... at the moment, there are a few things open, like the fusion reactor, which is quite pointless at the moment (who needs that amount of energy right now)...
gregtech adds a lot of machines, which raises the efficiency of ore processing and energyproduction, it follows IC2 in this manner.
the price is added complexity and higher risks... everyone knows the tendency of gregtech machines to change their state quite violently if someone handles them not properly.
gregtech has some very complex recipies, and it's good that a mod like applied energistics exists, because it deals with the annoying part of GT.
and regarding the high end stuff (machines that need chrome or even iridium): of course it can be solved by setting up more quarries, or a frame-tunnelbore or another way of autmated mining. everyone is swimming in iron, tin, copper and so on.
let's see what greg adds to the mod... at the moment, there are a few things open, like the fusion reactor, which is quite pointless at the moment (who needs that amount of energy right now)...
There are no config options that let you not have to use the plate bending machine and the assembling machine. Both of those are mandatory for accessing the higher end machines of GT, and both of them are entirely unnecessary machines that only serve to make the crafting process take longer. They don't add any complexity to the recipes, they aren't an interesting challenge to build and automate, they only exist to make the crafting process take longer.
The fusion reactor isn't pointless if you enable the IC2 massfab. Shove the output of a fusion reactor (in 512EU packets) into a massfab, you get UU matter at a seriously tasty rate. Alternatively, with the new design, you can pipe the plasma into a liquid tesseract or ender tank, and have 8192EU/t (I think) wherever on any plane you like it.
Actually, a timesink is anything that consumes a significant amount of time, especially in regards to the original purpose of the activity.
Survival mode is simply a way for people to experience creative mode in a way that consumes more time. The only difference between the two is that acquiring items takes longer, and death is a possibility. Either way: timesink.
Under certain circumstances it's bad game design. There are certain scenarios that genuinely call for time sinks. Any circumstance where a game developer makes money off a user's extended play time? That's bad game design if they use time sinks there. The only purpose for them in that context is for the game company to make an extra buck.
Time sinks can be used positively to extend the time in which a player can enjoy a game. Believe me when I say that if GregTech weren't installed, I would have conquered every nearly aspect of this modpack within a month and would have been done with it. The only exception to this is possibly bees. Those could have taken awhile longer.
Well, apparently you're the only person on the internet who understands truly what a time sink is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_sink
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/time+sink
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Time sink
http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/time-sink
According to the internet, a timesink is any activity that takes a long amount of time. Why that activity takes that length of time is never a question.
I actually run my entire base off of one quarry.
Of course, I haven't gotten into the tougher GT recipes yet, and I also don't have GT configs for certain mods like MFR yet, so it's been a bit slack in some areas.
It's funny, though. If you replaced 'GregTech' with 'Survival', you actually give a pretty valid description of survival versus creative mode up there.
You're telling me that the option to not use a portion of a game that people spend all day complaining about isn't relevant? You're telling me than the design of the mod that allows you to customize configurations in such a way as to fit the level of 'tedium' that you're willing to tolerate is not relevant to game design?
You can't tell other people if their time is wasted. You can only tell if your time is wasted, because it's your time. I've never wasted a second of my life on GregTech, and I'm certainly not going to waste as many seconds on it as you did complaining about something so wonderfully optional.
You're so full of crap, it nearly leaves me speechless. Not quite though.
There is several times more content in GT than in base IC2.
Wait. You have to use one machine in the mod to make other machines in the same mod? The horror!
Quick! Somebody tell King Lemming his magma crucible isn't acceptable behavior!
Welcome to tech teiring. A standard and widely accepted game design.
You can generate uumatter at ic2 prices at truly game breaking amounts even without fusion. With low prices and fusion..just turn on creative mode.
If there were other mod items that allowed you to melt redstone and ender pearls, I would hope and expect that they could be used just as well. The thing with the new GT machines though, is that
1) it's still changing other mod's recipes, and this time there is no way to undo the change in config
2) The recipes worked just fine before, and the new machines add nothing. The plate bending machine I can just about understand, though it smacks of just adding another crafting step for the sake of it, and considering that Steve can weave carbon nanotubes with his bare hands, squash nine metal nuggets into a flawless ingot, and punch down a tree, it seems a little odd to require a new machine just to squash ingots into plates. The assembling machine, however, has no justification whatsoever. Its assembling components into finished items. It's crafting them. There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to craft them the old fashioned way, just like you used to. No reason, except to make it take more time. Waiting a full minute for a machine to finish processing a single item is not fun. Have you looked at the things you can make in the assembling machine? Torches, levers? I really don't understand why this machine exists.
So you're playing creative then? Because the only difference is time?
No, the difference between survival and creative is the incentive to create systems that provide stuff for you. This is especially true for stuff like FTB where you build ender farms for the sole purpose of having a good supply of ender pearls. If you enable creative on a survival server people will simply stop playing because there's no point. If it was just about building cool buildings you would not need FTB.
I'm sorry but the bloody wikipedia page (and I'm sorry but if you're quoting dictionary definitions when discussing gamedesign you're a wee bit of a sad person) says so itself:
In massively multiplayer online role-playing games (MMORPGs), time sinks are a method of increasing the time needed by players to do certain tasks, hopefully causing them to subscribe for longer periods of time.[2] Players may use the term disparagingly to describe a simplistic and time-consuming aspect of gameplay, possibly designed to keep players playing longer without significant benefit. Time sinks can also be used for other gameplay reasons, such as to help regenerate resources or monsters in the game world.
That's the definition of time sinks in game design. If you want to argue that "in general" it doesn't have this meaning I could not care less: we're talking about game design here.
In the discussion of game design whether I can use or not use certain aspect is not relevant. If a game designer has the notion that just increasing the time it takes to achieve something makes it harder he is simply a bad game designer. That's what I'm arguing here. To counter all the twerps who go "oh look at me I am so hardcore because I us minecrack on default". You're not fooling anyone; spending an hour crafting something isn't skill, we all know NEI showed you the recipies.[DOUBLEPOST=1368525591][/DOUBLEPOST]
Don't bother. You're in the church of GregoriusT preaching AGAINST the choirboys.