To design a Hardcore or Expert Mode pack

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ShneekeyTheLost

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General player progression roadmap:

Hand Power: Everything is pretty well manual. Includes most PrimalCore items, some BTW items, that sort of thing. No automation.
Horse Power: Uses Horse Power, the very start of automation. Includes a chopper, a grindstone, and a press.
Wind/Water Shaft Power: BWM axles and gearboxes. Able to fully automate certain processes.
Electric Power: Immersive Engineering and going forward.

In addition to that, the general materials required:

Stone Age, with Hand/Horse Power, generally involves things you don't need to actually mine. No ores needed.
Bronze Age: Up to Shaft Power. May use CraftTweaker so that Gearboxes require bronze instead of gold. Bronze is created through Kitsu's Forgecraft at this stage, which is low-quantity per iteration. In theory, iron and even steel can be done, but again, very low quantity production.
Iron/Steel Age: Once Immersive Engineering's alloy forge and blast furnace come online, you get the ability to produce batches of metals and metal alloys at a time.

I'm not sure yet how to gate Forgecraft into the IE's multiblock alloy/blast furnace. That's going to mark the change from 'making things pretty much one ingot at a time, and mostly with a specific purpose already in mind' to 'being able to set up a stack of metal at a time so I can do whatever I need to with it'.

I'm also not quite sure yet how to integrate Astral Sorcery and Thaumcraft into the progression, but those are going to be the two mods. Astral Sorcery will 'unlock' first, but I definitely want Thaumcraft to be later-tier. In effect, Steve advances through the ages, refining what he knows, and refining the process by which he obtains knowledge. So he starts off with stargazing, and learning how to harness the power of the stars, in a sort of 'soft magic', where many of the mechanics are simply mysterious and ill-understood, and an 'it just works because it does' attittude, as well as basic cauldron style bronze casting and iron blooming... to eventually gaining his own Renaissance, in which he develops the scientific methodology and advances into the electrical age, and also starts applying the scientific method to the magic around him to delve into Thaumcraft.

It is a microcosm of human development throughout the ages. He starts off working his arse off on subsistence-level tasks, and ends up an industrial-age engineer and thaumaturge.

Some catches: You can make iron and even steel just as easily as you can make bronze with Kitsu Forgecraft, not sure how I like that. The problem is how the Crucible is capable of doing temperatures from 'melting tin and copper' all the way up to 'making steel' with no extra requirements. I may have to look into this. However, I may be willing to give this a pass, simply because you'll only really be able to do things one ingot at a time, so you aren't going to make enough to get into industrial production until you get the Blast Furnace up and running.
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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I think I have an idea on how to space tech out a bit, something with verisimilitude and (hopefully) balance. And the key lies in subcombines, and which items can be made when. Specifically:

You can't just bang a couple of gold nuggets and some redstone dust into a functioning circuit chip, it just doesn't work that way. As such, more advanced components require more advanced crafting techniques. Things like dynamos and even copper coils are not really easily made by hand. Trust me, I've done it IRL, it's just not going to be a thing. This is going to be the gating mechanism for the various ages, the actual mechanics by which things are made.

This is where EFab would normally take its place, and use that to gate things behind progression. However, as so many people have warned me that EFab is a buggy mess, I'm open to suggestions for a better fabricator mod. However, I'm not sure how scalable any of the alternatives are.

It needs to be able to start off with manual power or just no power, because it's going to start off being the gate for gearboxes for BWM. It needs to be able to be added onto for it to be able to handle progressively more complicated crafting jobs. I would appreciate it if it would eventually be capable of accepting inputs and spitting out outputs to be capable of being automated later. Even something like a Hatch from the Forestry multiblock farm thing would be nice.
 

Golrith

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I think I have an idea on how to space tech out a bit, something with verisimilitude and (hopefully) balance. And the key lies in subcombines, and which items can be made when. Specifically:

You can't just bang a couple of gold nuggets and some redstone dust into a functioning circuit chip, it just doesn't work that way. As such, more advanced components require more advanced crafting techniques. Things like dynamos and even copper coils are not really easily made by hand. Trust me, I've done it IRL, it's just not going to be a thing. This is going to be the gating mechanism for the various ages, the actual mechanics by which things are made.

This is where EFab would normally take its place, and use that to gate things behind progression. However, as so many people have warned me that EFab is a buggy mess, I'm open to suggestions for a better fabricator mod. However, I'm not sure how scalable any of the alternatives are.

It needs to be able to start off with manual power or just no power, because it's going to start off being the gate for gearboxes for BWM. It needs to be able to be added onto for it to be able to handle progressively more complicated crafting jobs. I would appreciate it if it would eventually be capable of accepting inputs and spitting out outputs to be capable of being automated later. Even something like a Hatch from the Forestry multiblock farm thing would be nice.
Modular Machinery would fit the bill. I tried EFab originally in my Manufactio modpack, but switched over to MM and it's become my core mod for the pack basically replicating every machine from Factorio.
Due to it's customisable multiblock structure, it's easy to gate later machines. All recipes are JSON based, and you can define as many inputs and outputs as you need, including chance based outputs.

Since you can virtually make them out of any block, you can get some interesting looking designs. Just remember though it's not a single multiblock structure that does everything (like Efab), but individual machines that do whatever you design recipes for (full JEI support too)

guide_cp_lr.png guide_lab_lr.png guide_sa_lr.png
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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Dec 8, 2012
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Modular Machinery would fit the bill. I tried EFab originally in my Manufactio modpack, but switched over to MM and it's become my core mod for the pack basically replicating every machine from Factorio.
Due to it's customisable multiblock structure, it's easy to gate later machines. All recipes are JSON based, and you can define as many inputs and outputs as you need, including chance based outputs.

Since you can virtually make them out of any block, you can get some interesting looking designs. Just remember though it's not a single multiblock structure that does everything (like Efab), but individual machines that do whatever you design recipes for (full JEI support too)

View attachment 36912 View attachment 36913 View attachment 36914
And oh, hey, look at that! The addon Modular Diversity has compatibility with BWM shaft power!

I think we have a winner here.
 

Golrith

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The mod has an ingame creative item which lets you right click blocks that make up the structure, when you finish the structure, click the controller, and this will output a JSON file of the structure, it then needs some minor tweaks to turn into a full machine (remove all the NBT tags and add some header/ID stuff)

It comes with some machines as default, but you can safely delete the machine and recipe files if you don't want them.
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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Dec 8, 2012
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So, been trying to figure out how I'm going to do the steam age in this pack. Really been wracking my brain, and even looking 'outside the box' for answers. I even tried to use Pneumaticraft Repressurized, but then I realized that it doesn't actually... do anything. I mean, the process for making stuff is really interesting, but once you get it set up... there's really nothing more you can do with the mod. Which is kind of a disapppointment.

I have discovered a Better Boiler mod which can work, but it is just the boiler, not the machines.

Can you set up a Modular Machinery machine to run on steam as a fuel source?
 

Golrith

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So, been trying to figure out how I'm going to do the steam age in this pack. Really been wracking my brain, and even looking 'outside the box' for answers. I even tried to use Pneumaticraft Repressurized, but then I realized that it doesn't actually... do anything. I mean, the process for making stuff is really interesting, but once you get it set up... there's really nothing more you can do with the mod. Which is kind of a disapppointment.

I have discovered a Better Boiler mod which can work, but it is just the boiler, not the machines.

Can you set up a Modular Machinery machine to run on steam as a fuel source?
Better Boilers has one small issue, some mods don't connect to the boiler when you load the chunk/world (IE fluid pipes comes to mind) while others do. Just means breaking and replacing the connection.
Also, it's max size config doesn't bare any resemblance to the boiler in game. If you want to restrict the size, experiment with different values until you get the max size you after.

Also, I don't know if the Duration tag can be used on anything apart from RF/t
 
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KingTriaxx

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I can say I think you're over thinking the industrial jump. That's the point where you'd begin being able to truly automate things. Reaching IE is the equivalent of arriving at the industrial age where things can be mass produced.
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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My apologies for running silent lately, been arse-deep in code, trying to figure it out as I go along. It is... more complicated than I had expected, considering my previous experience in coding. Still working on wrangling this thing.

Also, for base inventory management, I'm using Simple Storage Network, not AE2 or RS. It's a bit more primitive, and without the auto-crafting, and it is dependent upon external storage rather than storing everything on disk, but I'm surprisingly okay with that. Honestly, if I could have classic Logistics Pipes, without a dependency upon Buildcraft and the ability to use TD ducts... I'd probably do that instead.
 

KingTriaxx

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I was just thinking, you can use IE's assembler for auto-crafting and having ender storage to automatically return it to the Simple Storage Network is helpful.
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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Okay... so, I've been working on a few other projects, and coming back to this one to try and do it right. However, I'm running into a bit of an issue with learning How2Code for Modular Machinery and CraftTweaker. Anyone got any tutorials or at least documentation I can read up on to figure out how to do this right? I'd really like to actually produce a finished working product, instead of some kludgy barely-functional-but-not-really piece of crap from insufficient effort like SOME packs *cough*Continuum*cough* did.

So... if any of y'all could direct me to the documentation or a good tutorial or guide thing? Thaaaat'd be great. ^.^

Also, still trying to figure out how to get auto-crafting on demand working with Simple Storage Networks, with explicitly NOT including either AE2 or RS. Or Buildcraft, so LP doesn't work either. I mean, there is the IE multiblock crafter machine, but that's only for like one specific thing over and over, which isn't quite what I'm looking for, unless I am missing something.