Tinkerer's construct balance ideas

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Ember Quill

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The liquid router from MFR works very well in draining 'excess' molten liquids into their separate tanks too. Also nice: those spigot thingies work on BC tanks. So you can just have different tanks above different casting tables like so:
fKl9K2p.png
Ooh! I didn't know this! Does it only work with BC tanks or can you put faucets on other kinds of tanks? Like Railcraft, Portable, or Ender tanks?

I think I may start storing alll of my ingots in liquid form from now on.
 

Hydra

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Ooh! I didn't know this! Does it only work with BC tanks or can you put faucets on other kinds of tanks? Like Railcraft, Portable, or Ender tanks?

I think it works on anything that has a forge-compatible liquid inventory. With RC tanks you'll probably have to put them on a valve though.

But yeah, this is something I've considered too. I'm going to build a liquid forge thingy in our community center. Should look awesome. With the ardite, cobalt and manamanahe bees I have I can make all kinds of pwetty colors :)
 

Ember Quill

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I think it works on anything that has a forge-compatible liquid inventory. With RC tanks you'll probably have to put them on a valve though.

But yeah, this is something I've considered too. I'm going to build a liquid forge thingy in our community center. Should look awesome. With the ardite, cobalt and manamanahe bees I have I can make all kinds of pwetty colors :)
I'm going to try to integrate liquid-metal storage into an autocrafting system. With the Liquid Logistics Pipes, it might actually be fairly easy. Liquid satellite pipes could dump the proper amount of liquid into a holding tank, then I'd just need some way to produce a redstone signal (unless I have a constant timer) to cast the ingots.

This will be a fun little project.
 
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Hydra

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I use a MFR Programmable Rednet Controller for the pulses. I can switch it off with a switch if I don't want my stuff to auto-cast into blocks.[DOUBLEPOST=1378416477][/DOUBLEPOST]To show off a bit, this is what I made today in our community center on our server:
6Tbm18j.png

All the (useful) tool metals, autosmelted into tanks. The only one that aren't full-auto yet are the alloys, but I might write a turtle program to do that for me using different size tanks.
 

keybounce

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Anyways lets bash Iguana tweaks before using it :p It's a great extension to do just what you want, tone down TiCo and make it actually worth the investment. But whatever...make your own mod to change TiCo to how you want.

I am *not* going to make umpteen dozen mods to modify other mods to behave differently. That is a maintenance nightmare, and far more time investment than the mods are worth.

Please be serious.

I am *not*: bashing iguana tweaks before using it because it does exactly what I want to make the result (TiC) worth the investment.

I am bashing iguana tweaks because, like other mods such as TFC, it is essentially a complete game conversion. That's not a bad thing -- that's just not what I want to play. In this case, it is a mod to make the early game harder (no swords), early tool use harder, and force me to use TiC tools by making vanilla tools unavailable (ok, wood shovels, wood axe, and bow+arrows) until I have iron (at which point, I have to have the TiC setup in place and no reason to use vanilla tools).

I like the idea of TiC as a way to customize tools. I think it's a great followup/replacement (idea/concept) to InfiTools. I disagree/dislike some of the choices made in the implementation.

I dislike the idea that a TiC tool is superior to a vanilla tool.

I dislike the idea that, paraphrased: "Because TiC normally exists in modpacks with an ore doubling feature, that all consume ores far faster than vanilla supplies, therefore TiC must itself have a doubling feature". That's been the number one response to me in this thread on that subject. If anything, to me, the idea that "mod X consumes resources faster than vanilla provides" does not mean "implement a doubling feature", it means "fix a mod that doesn't have the right recipes".

The question you're asking is STILL the wrong question! You're asking him to modify the default settings to your personal liking. You should be asking him to make these things configurable for use in a niche modpack!
In the actual thread on suggestions for TiC, mDiyo has said that he regards vanilla compatibility, not modpack compatibility, as the key point (See the very first post in that suggestion thread). With regards to vanilla compatibility, TiC tools overpower the equivalent vanilla tool.

It is not "a different choice", it is "a superior replacement".

That's why I think the default settings should change.

You don't seem to get that your personal opinion on a mod is still one of MANY opinions on a mod and has exactly the same weight. And if your opinion goes against the vision the mod makes has for his mod there really is only one option: suck it and don't use the mod at all. I really don't understand how you can get the impression that your opinion is somehow the only one that matters?

Just the opposite. I do regard my opinion as one of many. I can defend my opinion. We have a statement from mDiyo that TiC's reference point is vanilla, and I can argue for a balancing factor in that regard.

What are the "one of many" opinions from most of the people in this thread? That in regard to other big FTB packs, TiC isn't out of line.

And your suggestion of basically removing the smeltery is, again, a "I don't like how this part works so change it back". Like that's ever going to happen.

Yes, I don't like how the smeltery works.

But this is more: This is a new mechanic that does not match anything currently in vanilla. Vanilla has the mechanism of "Instant craft from the pieces. Instant combine into blocks. Instant break blocks into nuggets. Time to turn ore into nuggets, paid once".

The smeltery may be a better mechanic. You seem to think so; I don't. But it's a mechanic that does not fit vanilla. It requires waiting to turn nuggets into liquid, then turn that liquid into parts, then deal with the half nugget wastes; it forces time delays, and careful counting of what you put in when making alloys. The times I've gotten errors trying to count up to multiples of 81 nuggets by adding in ingots and berries and making errors is huge.

"Tedium".
 

tedyhere

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Maybe you should post in the Tinkers Construct thread than about getting balance changes. Doubt it will happen since mDiyo has said the mod is basically done in his eyes and has handed it over to another coder. But the best place to voice YOUR opionion to get a change is in the actual mod thread on Minecraft Forums.

You have stated your opinion, we have stated ours. Nothing will change eithers.
 
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Hydra

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The smeltery may be a better mechanic. You seem to think so; I don't. But it's a mechanic that does not fit vanilla. It requires waiting to turn nuggets into liquid, then turn that liquid into parts, then deal with the half nugget wastes; it forces time delays, and careful counting of what you put in when making alloys. The times I've gotten errors trying to count up to multiples of 81 nuggets by adding in ingots and berries and making errors is huge.

Seriously. It all boils down to "it's not vanilla" and "I can't count". If you want vanilla, go play vanilla. If you dislike so much about the mod, and disagree with how it works fundamentally, there is only one option: don't use it.
 

Ember Quill

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"Tedium".
I often say the same thing about GregTech and yet a large number of people still enjoy that mod. Go figure. Everyone plays differently. What one person finds tedious, another finds fun and interesting.

I'm really confused by your latest post. You've gone on and on throughout this whole thread about how TiCo is overpowered, and yet you then proceed to complain about how the smeltery is too difficult to use. The smeltery is TiCo's primary balancing mechanic! It's difficult (and some might say tedious) to create tools because those tools are supposed to be powerful enough to be worth the extra effort and consideration. This is why all of the metal tools now require the smeltery, and can no longer be built with the part builder.

Just the opposite. I do regard my opinion as one of many. I can defend my opinion. We have a statement from mDiyo that TiC's reference point is vanilla, and I can argue for a balancing factor in that regard.
I hope you won't consider me rude for asking to see this statement myself. A link or a direct quote would be great. It's always best to cite your sources, after all.
 

Hydra

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I'm really confused by your latest post. You've gone on and on throughout this whole thread about how TiCo is overpowered, and yet you then proceed to complain about how the smeltery is too difficult to use. The smeltery is TiCo's primary balancing mechanic! It's difficult (and some might say tedious) to create tools because those tools are supposed to be powerful enough to be worth the extra effort and consideration. This is why all of the metal tools now require the smeltery, and can no longer be built with the part builder.

What sorry state are we in if basic division / multiplication is considered difficult nowadays. NEI even shows you the relative amounts needed for the alloys and so does the in-game manual. How hard is it to just multiply that by the amount of ingots you want?

I think the bottom line is that for the 'best' tools in the pack he's playing he has to do something that's a little more complex than mine 3 ore, toss them in a furnace and combine the results with 2 stick to get a pick. I think his whole "But it's superior to vanilla" thing is just a facade: mods in general add stuff that's superior to Vanilla in some way or otherwise no one would use them.
 
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PhilHibbs

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I dislike the idea that, paraphrased: "Because TiC normally exists in modpacks with an ore doubling feature, that all consume ores far faster than vanilla supplies, therefore TiC must itself have a doubling feature"... If anything, to me, the idea that "mod X consumes resources faster than vanilla provides" does not mean "implement a doubling feature", it means "fix a mod that doesn't have the right recipes".
I don't think that ore doubling is just there because the mods use more metals. I think it's there so that the player can do half as much mining for metals (and spend that time building and tinkering with machines instead), and that they can get the metals they want with half as much quarrying, half as many huge holes in the landscape.
 

Hydra

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I don't think that ore doubling is just there because the mods use more metals.

It's one of the main 'reason' that both the ore doubling exists and that ore spawns are balanced differently from vanilla. Vanilla gives you a lot less diamonds for example. In vanilla you don't really have much use for iron actually, you only have to replace / repair your armor rather infrequently. In most tech mods you need craptons of iron and most mods use diamonds for stuff that's supposed to be 'expensive'.As an example; for a full size RC boiler + engines you need 270 iron. Just over 4 stacks. Having to mine that just by yourself would suck and that's just a single boiler.

A modpack like FTB cannot ever be compared to vanilla. Using the vanilla spawn rates would suck, not to mention that vanilla doesn't even have ores like tin and copper.
 
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JunpakuKarasu

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Just the opposite. I do regard my opinion as one of many. I can defend my opinion.
Doesn't seem that way to us, the way you've been replying to our opinions has been heavily implying that we're playing the game 'wrong' and your ideas must be put into place to make it 'right' again with no choice from our end. This is the height of arrogance and the reason why the patience of so many of us has been coming to an end.
If you think TiCon is unbalanced, fine, that's your opinion. But don't go forcing the rest of use to play your idea of the game/mod. (Especially when your idea of 'needed changes' completely breaks the core concept of TiCon)
 

PhilHibbs

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Doesn't seem that way to us, the way you've been replying to our opinions has been heavily implying that we're playing the game 'wrong' and your ideas must be put into place to make it 'right' again with no choice from our end.
I disagree with most of what Keybounce is suggesting, but nowhere has he tried to impose anything on anyone. He's expressing his opinion about how he thinks the mod should be balanced. What's wrong with that? That's how a free society works - we all say what we want, and hopefully a balance can be found that keeps most people happy. So feel free to say "I disagree", but saying "you're trying to force changes on me" isn't true and isn't helpful.
 
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Mero

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I disagree with most of what Keybounce is suggesting, but nowhere has he tried to impose anything on anyone. He's expressing his opinion about how he thinks the mod should be balanced. What's wrong with that? That's how a free society works - we all say what we want, and hopefully a balance can be found that keeps most people happy. So feel free to say "I disagree", but saying "you're trying to force changes on me" isn't true and isn't helpful.


He wants the default mod, (The entire Mod) changed so that it conforms to his idea of what is balanced.
He's not asking for options.
He wants the mod changed completely so that in itself is him, if the mod were to be changed to his ideals, imposing his ideas on everybody else who plays the mod.
He thinks his way the the way it should be and wants the mod changed that way.


The mod developers make mods the way they want. If somebody doesn't like the mod they have options.
Requesting for their to be configs to change the mod to fit every possible play style is one of them.
Creating their own mod to put in the changes to a mod is another.
Using a mod that has already been developed that does exactly what is wanted is the best option.


Requesting that the entire mod be changed is just trying to impose your idea of balance on everybody else, including the mod author.
 

trev1234

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He's posting his opinion, yes, but he's also disapproving everything everyone else says due to his "opinion" being the only correct thing here to him. IMHO TiC is perfectly balanced, with the long-winded build up of a Smeltery (which is a worthwhile build as you can expand it higher to fuel you needs of more materials) and the reasonable tool repair costs, i mean, the more a tool breaks the more it'll cost to fully repair it, which i think is well balanced.

It makes sense that people may find it unbalanced due to being able to add lapis and get Fortune, but even then, that'll cost you 450 lapis (50 Lapis blocks) to get Fort III.
If anything, this entire mod is riddled with Balance mechanics to make even the most overpowered tool a burden to get. i mean, Cobalt + Ardite = Manyullyn. Both cobalt and ardite are in the Nether which need steel or alumite picks to mine, and with Natura and BoP in there it makes it more adventurous, risky and fun to go to the nether.

Hopefully not Contributing to an argument, just stating what i think
 

PhilHibbs

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Requesting that the entire mod be changed is just trying to impose your idea of balance on everybody else, including the mod author.
Requesting is not imposing. It's expressing an opinion. He isn't trying to hypnotize or blackmail or bribe anyone. The mod developer or maintainer (and the pack maintainers who set the configs) can do what they want to do, which may involve taking into account the various opinions expressed. Some may say "it's perfect", some may say "I think there should be fewer modifiers by default", but the latter are no more "imposing" their opinion than the former, no matter how much they keep saying "you're wrong and I'm right".
 
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PhilHibbs

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he may be expression an opinion, but he's also stating that the whole mod is unbalanced, but its completely the opposite.
Yeah. I get it. You have an opinion, and you disagree with his opinion. I don't see how that makes him into an imposer.
IMHO TiC is perfectly balanced,
Do you know what the "H" in "IMHO" stands for? Let's just say it's not "He disagrees with me therefore he's wrong".
 
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trev1234

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Yeah. I get it. You have an opinion, and you disagree with his opinion. I don't see how that makes him into an imposer.
I'm not stating he's an imposer, I'm only stating that he's stated a fact of which isn't correct. I respect his opinion, I'm merely pointing where any flaws in his opinion are, that's all


EDIT: Missed a word
 
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