You think? I love it. I think it's totally awesome that you actually poor liquid metal into molds and use those parts to construct a weapon / tool tailored to what you need. It might not be as straightforward as just dropping 3 iron ingots and 2 sticks on a crafting table but I completely love it. I am actually 'tinkering' with my tools.
Tinkerer's construct balance ideas
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You think? I love it. I think it's totally awesome that you actually poor liquid metal into molds and use those parts to construct a weapon / tool tailored to what you need. It might not be as straightforward as just dropping 3 iron ingots and 2 sticks on a crafting table but I completely love it. I am actually 'tinkering' with my tools.
It's that little tinkering, that I do like, but makes automation a bit tricky. I'd like to be able to just slap some ore in, pull ingots out. It just takes a little longer than I would ideally want. I like it, I just don't love it.
Last time I checked he's going to just leave TiC as a base for other people to add to, and he'll stop updating it.
Well, you obviously know more than we do, so spill the beans and link us somewhere relevant
.I really enjoy it, too. I don't play MC to get to the end game. That, IMHO, is what Creative Mode and NEI Cheat mode are for.
Hence, the journey through the Smeltery is all part of the fun. I think it's balanced in terms of the tools you can create without the RNG of the vanilla enchanting table. Grinding experience for vanilla enchants is not fun the Nth time. However, exploring to gather clay and sand, building the smeltery, smelting the brass and aluminum for the casts, and then smelting the metal to make better tools *is* part of the fun. Each step is clear, forward progress.
Well, you obviously know more than we do, so spill the beans and link us somewhere relevant
Here is where mDiyo talks about his mod and whats going on and stuff: http://www.twitch.tv/mdiyo/profile
You can automate the smeltery actually. The spigot thingies respond to redstone and the casting basin is an inventory a pipe or bus can pull from.
Interesting... That might do for an interesting way to make liquid metal storage and be able to pull out the metals automatically. I'm going to have fun with that.
You can do that already. Put a redstone clock circuit against the drain faucet, and a hopper beneath the casting table. It will automatically pour casts, and the ingots will drop into the hopper (which you can interact with directly or use BC pipes or whatnot to route produced ingots around)
Hell, I keep the metal molten in portable tanks. When I want to work with it, I plug the tank into slot A in my work area. When I'm done, I move it to slot B and I can pour the remainder back in.
Why the smeltery, and not the furnace? Because it never occurred to me that the furnace would work.
TiC's smeltery doesn't like ingots, except for vanilla's gold ingots. None of the other ingots are native (I think they come from Thaumcraft's infernal furnace). Sine oreberries are (as I understand it) Natura, and Natura and TiC are two halves of the same mod, if I could furnace an oreberry into an ingot, then I should be able to smelt that ingot.
Since TiC's smeltery knows about oreberries, knows that they are nugget-sized, and knows about Natura, the idea that Natura would let you furnace an oreberry into a nugget, and then have that nugget be useless for TiC ... that's just a "don't even think about something that crazy" idea. Heck, you can't even get a nugget cast to save the last little bits. So yea, that I can smelt a berry into a nugget's worth of stuff, and not be able to do anything with it, why would I think that I could furnace a berry into a nugget, if I would not be able to anything with that nugget?
So it never even occurred to me to test for that. Why should it?
Well, lets see. This is my first time playing with TiC/Natura. We were never able to get anything into a bucket from the smeltery. (Still can't -- how? Please? There's 4 of us on this server and none have managed to make it work). At the time this blockage was happening, it was early on, we didn't have much stuff, and "breaking the tank" never even occurred to me.
Keep in mind: We got this mod from the UHS mod pack. The only docs we had were the in-game books. Do you see anything in those three books about buckets, clearing the smeltery, or the use of pipes?
Chute?
Multiple smelteries, one for each metal; hoppers feeding stuff in (do you toss the hopper at the controller, or what?); hoppers underneath the casting basin/casting tables. Ok, so that only leaves the pouring into either the basin for a block, or the casting table for parts and ingots.
Sounds like a plan for next time.
We came up with that idea much later, actually. But we had built this as an outside wall of our house (one face of the smeltery had controller, two casting spots, and a chest of casting molds, all facing into the house), so adding more drains on the outside would have required rebuilding our house.
Thank you! Did not know that. Will be very useful in the future (like, ... dang, not until friday
.That's a good point. I had not actually thought of that.
I got this mod from the "Ultra Hard Survival" pack (the UHS pack), through feed the beast.
I know that there's many different FTB packs; two or three main ones, plus many others. So there is no "single FTB pack".
UHS is not an automate it all pack. (Well, we're still playing with what golems from Thaumcraft can do. But they are just soo dumb. How could that golem uprising possibly succeed?)
I've seen what Direwolf managed to do. I've seen improvements on that "mine everything to bedrock" "set it up, add in a chunk loader, plop it in a mystcraft age, and turn your nether's lava into resources while you sleep overnight" system that work with lower power supplies and take as long as needed to complete instead of being fixed time cycles.
But when you have something like that, how does it differ from creative? How does it differ from "just grab stacks out of NEI"?
I did notice that this was the mod discussion sub-forum.
I am discussing a mod in the ultra hard survival feed the beast pack.
If not here, then where should I have raised this issue?
Ahh.
I don't consider minecraft to be something you "beat".
I consider it "Lego, with blocks you have to earn".
I don't grind. I don't use mob farms. (If there was a halfway decent way to get TNT without killing mass creepers, I'd say that there was no need for it. At some point I'll test Mystcraft+symbols to see if the instability balance for TNT blocks is balanced and acceptable.)
I'm going to re-test, but a quick test last night with an auto-smelt hammer in the nether collecting bricks and quartz with the occasional nether ore block seemed to be a crazy 15-20 minutes for 30 levels -- either I'm crazy or that's silly fast. (Watch my retest show it to be an hour and 15 minutes ...)
Not having been there or done that, I suspect that "bored" was because you weren't really playing. You were just waiting to repeat the casting/enchanting/brewing process. Heck, you may as well have had hoppers on timers tossing ingredients in, pulling potions out. That's not playing. And if you have an unlimited supply of potions or enchants, then all you've done is change the "base" level from diamond to max-enchant diamond. And ... what do you do then?
The game for me is more about the process of building and safety-fying in a hostile world, more than it is getting the biggest numbers.
I agree. It's no challenge to run a grinder.
What's the game to you? What's the point? Is it "whacking away at skeletons and zombies with ever more powerful weapons"? Do you need nastier and nastier enemy mobs to deal with your nastier and nastier weapons and armors so you feel like you have a challenge?
Forgive what I am about to say: You sound like a drug addict looking for the next level, the next high.
You seem to have taken a game based on mostly using iron until you get diamonds, and then mostly diamonds with some enhancements that probably aren't what you wanted, based on going after zombies/skeletons/creepers/etc until you could handle pigmen/blazes/ghasts or lots and lots of endermen, overwhelmed those with magic and bonuses to the point that you're the person wither skeletons and witches were added for, even deciding that the real wither was the next challenge; heck, you probably have powered up to the point you can drop an Ur-Ghast (twilight forests's successor to the lich boss) without it being a challenge.
You short circuit the process of getting more to the point that the mobs you would have been challenged by are not a challenge, and new mobs are your target. You go for the next big tool/equipment, and those mobs are not a challenge, and want the next big thing.
It's like every 6-12 months there's another expansion pack for WOW, and more levels and dungeons because the old stuff is old hat.
Dude: There is no end to that cycle. There is no "finish line". All you seem to be doing is "What's the next max level / best equipment / gotta catch them all until the next expansion comes out and I do it all over again".
THAT is something I've been there / done that / stopped doing.
That's not playing a game, that's chasing spreadsheet numbers. Yes, I used to be a big spreadsheet game analyzer. Won't go back to it, ruins the fun of playing.
I've looked into TFC. From what I saw, it seems to be about making the early game harder by handicapping you; you have a far more realistic early game tech-tree, giving you a much harder time surviving until you manage to get up to vanilla diamond level.
It's very similar to UHS, really. UHS seems more about "Make the mobs harder, so that early vanilla game play is not up to stuff". You have to learn new / more "20% of the way" stuff (TiC) or "35% stuff" (Thaumcraft), and those give you crazy overpowered end game stuff to deal with the crazy overpowered mobs.
But unlike TFC, where the end is high-end vanilla level quality overpowering vanilla level mobs, UHS has "ambush you from nowhere by surprise nasty mobs" that actually overpower even the worst I've yet found in TiC or ThC just because they catch you off guard. Sure, 95% of what's out there is not a problem, but at least so far it seems that you can never be completely at ease. It's like "Angband", my least favorite of the rouge-likes (at any time, a random spawn can be something like 10 levels harder than what you normally expect, and it's forced hard-core.) It's why I normally don't play hardcore, because it brings out the worst of my "Be safe and don't die" behavior.
As I said, I came here from UHS, and these weapons/tools just blow the power level out the window. Thaumcraft ... doesn't belong in UHS. Heck, it makes the twilight forest big weapons look like a wooden sword.
Sorry, I did not know that this is an old version. I thought UHS was a new and up to date mod pack.
What's new in the newer versions?
...
Let me see if I understand you correctly.
I'm taking balance; things aren't super/over powered. There's some sense of scarcity. There isn't enough ore to make everything you want. There aren't enough enchantments to get everything you want. You will have to replace stuff as it wears out and you've gotten more ores/enchantments/powerups. As you play, you convert from iron to diamond. Diamond pick keeps wearing out and being used up, but the rest only has to be replaced when you die, generally speaking.
Yes, vanilla eventually gives you a huge oversupply of ores to the point that you can leave stuff in the ground unless you want a massive rail system. That just means you can build what you want with what you have, plenty of stuff. Sure, it takes time to get there. Don't have the time for that? Grab stacks from NEI. Or, don't restart -- stay in the same world with all your stuff.
You are talking about everything doubling the ore supply to make everything, everything adding flight, crazy weapons, better/more powerful movement tools/abilities, etc.
You are saying that everything wants to make you able to wipe out mobs with a single blow, regard terrain obstacles as minor nuisances, etc.; then you need something harder to fight since you wipe out everything from vanilla, 7 mobs in one wave of your scythe?
Didn't work well?
Better system?
I agree that being able to make tools out of pieces is potentially a better system.
InfiTools has done that for a long time.
Having played on seeds where I had island starts and no trees, and refused to just give up, being able to make a crafting table, and some initial sticks and mining tools from sandstone would have been a big game changer.
Are the pieces/parts of this mod pretty reasonable? Up to the point of new, superior alloys/minerals, yes. Trivial enchantments? Questionable. Superior minerals with built-in efficiency, trivial enchantments, dirt-common nether quartz for sharpness, too-common lapis for fortune? Bad.
Now, the smeltery? Unless you want to say "Access to metal tools is restricted until you accomplish X first", there's no reason for the smeltery mechanics. Steve is established as a demi-god, able to turn normal overworld materials into just about anything almost instantly, with the only time consumptions being smelting ores into usable ingots, or dealing with extra-worldly materials (brewing nether-based materials into potions).
Should the same mechanics that let you take wood blocks, or cactus blocks, and turn them into parts, be able to take iron ingots and make them into parts? If not, why not? Nothing else in the game requires anything more than "put it on a crafting table", and a tool maker is just a specialized crafting table.
Is it "realistic" to require casting and smelting, to require tool making to take time? Should turning wheat, milk, sugar, and eggs into cake take time?
Two sticks, and three ingots to make a tool in vanilla.
Or, two sticks and one ingot in this mod.
And double the ingot production.
Making things from parts? Good.
Cheaper parts? Better materials? Inherently improvable? Fortune 2 or 3 as the norm instead of the exception? Efficiency as the norm because of things like alumite?
Arbitrarily slower work with metal parts? Arbitrarily more tedium with the casting and leftovers?
Should a cactus arrowhead, or blade, do more damage? Fine.
But should making the handle, or guard, or support plate out of cactus improve damage? Heck, the handle or guard should hurt you, not your opponent.
I question the "better system" assertion. Better idea? Yes. Better implementation? No.
No. The main resultant (as opposed to intended) purpose is to make metal tool parts artificially harder to work with.
Other than some sense of "tech level" in the form of gold or aluminum brass to make casts, there's no reason for it.
And it has a painful time sink and tedium aspect to it.
Doubling ore output -- heck, even the need to double ore output -- points to a serious cost problem, or are you really trying to say that all the normal vanilla items should be effectively half cost?
Sure; that's a valid point.
But which modpack?. There's many different FTB packs now.
(Alright, that's page 4.)
Have you considered, that Tinkers Construct might just not be the right mod for you? In my opinion, it fits perfectly well in some other mod packs (Unleashed for example) and is well balanced there. Ore doubling is a standard in those packs for example (and is somewhat balanced by the huge amount of resources all those mods require), something you seem to not like.
Yes. Clearly, anyone who doesn't play the exact way you enjoy playing the game is a big dirty cheater who should just play Creative. I always thought Minecraft was a Sandbox game with no goal and no right or wrong way to play, but you have shown me the light. The only two ways to play are your way or Creative.
I play FTB to automate all the things.
I want to build complex machine processes using as many different mods as possible to automate.
If something can be gathered, processed, stored, retrieved, re-processed, a anything, I want to automate every single step.
If there isn't a way to do it, I want to find a way to do it.
Whenever new mods are added (new updated modpack) I want to do it all again in a new way using different mods.
That's what I find fun. Coming up with new and creative solutions and then implementing those solutions starting with no resources and developing my plan as resources come in.
All of this being done with mobs doing their best to hinder my progress.
I am NOT playing "legos" (creative) nor am I playing ultra hardcore.
Creative holds no interest at all for me. I really don't care how things look and I don't build anything to get validation from others.
I don't show my stuff to others ange have no desire to.
If I wanted to play ultra hardcore, I would do it in vanilla, not modded minecraft.
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