Tinkerer's construct balance ideas

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Skyqula

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TC tools can be made from better materials, giving built-in efficiency.
Many have built-in unbreaking as well.

Unbreaking is alot more powerfull then reinforced. Additionally to get a pick equally fast to a diamond efficiency 5 pickaxe you need a cobalt pickaxe head with 3 modifier slots used up for haste. For a shovel its even more hilarious as you pretty much need 5 slots used up for haste. Now if you factor in that reinforced is no where near as powerfull your realy not getting that good a deal.

While you cannot toss them at enchanting tables, you can craft (guaranteed) things like silk touch, or improved efficiency; you can add fortune, etc.

Yes, but they are alot more expensive and/or time consuming. Getting 450 lapis for looting isnt done in a couple of minutes, mining your way from 1 lapis to 450 (it increases slowly by using the tool) isnt done fast either. Additionally, silk touch is overrated. Its a good thing its so rare in vanilla because of how mandatory fortune 3 is.

And things you can't get in vanilla: Auto smelt.

And? Are you saying coal/charcoal is rare? In vanilla play troughs i got chests filled with coal that i simply have no use for...

And then there's self repair (moss), or work-station repair (more materials); no XP cost to make, upgrade, or maintain. The tool never goes poof.

With no downside.

Ah, finally, we arive at the point where TiC's downsite shows. Yes, yes there is one. TiC tools dont last as long as vanilla tools, with the exception of the much, much, much more expensive t2 tools. The reason is obvious: Reinforced is weak compared to unbreaking. So to counter that we get to place moss on a tool that will repair it over time. But! With heavy use, 1 moss is not enough, even with reinforced 2/3. We already established that we need 3 of our slots for haste, 1 for looting wich only leaves 1 for moss. It also means we used a block of gold, a diamond and a nether star!!!. So eventually you will have to go to base to repair the pick or give it time to repair by using another. On the topic of repairing your TiC tools, you need alot more meterials to repair a TiC tool then you do a vanilla tool. Vanilla you simply slap on 3 diamonds or incase of a shovel another shovel (aka 1 diamond). With TiC you need to slap on up to 9 ingots to repair your tool. Not a big deal with cheap materials like iron/steel. But cobalt/manylian? Thats going to be quite some nether adventures to keep that one up.

And here we get to vanilla balance, you can easely maintain your tools when mining. You get more exp then it costs to repair your tools (and thats ignoring mob grinders!). You get way more diamonds then it costs to repair your tools. Ontop, diamonds are only used for making and repairing tools and armor in vanilla. So realy, vanilla tools are not hard to maintain at all....

And then we have the most important part: fun! TiC is fun to play around with all the possibility's, what strengths will you take? At wich tradeoffs? There are lots of tool combinations with different strengths and weaknesses giving you choices!!!
While vanilla is not fun at all, you either get lucky with your first enchant or your stuck grinding for more XP ontop of there being only 1 best possible tool.

If annything, vanilla tools are cheap. Cheap to get and cheap to maintain. They just require a stupid RNG mechanic thats bypassed with boring mob grinders... TiC tools are alot more expensive, but also garunteed and alot more fun to find the right tool for you.

Simply put: There is no reason to make a vanilla tool at all with this mod installed.

Sure there is, a diamond shovel with eff 5 unb 3 is still the best shovel ;) A diamond pickaxe with Eff5 unb3 fortune 3 can still compete with the t1 TiC tools. Getting said tools however will take a considerable amount of time or simple luck in the RNG lottery thats vanilla enchanting. Additionally, depending on your game plan, getting diamond tools is actually alot faster then getting cobalt/ardite/manylian. And just like enchanting, your unlikely to spend resources on earlyer TiC tools. So with luck, getting diamond tools is better/faster.

Anyway, If you look at the materials you invest in supposedly-overpowered TiC tools, it's actually fairly expensive. You need a LOT of lapis (which is fairly rare until you get some sort of automated mining setup) to get the equivalent of a Fortune enchantment. 100 lapis for Fortune I, 300 for Fortune II, and 450 for Fortune III. (Also keep in mind that every level of Fortune or any other TiC modifier uses up a slot, so Fortune III will use up all three slots)

This is false. Fortune 3 does not take up 3 enchantment slots. Additionally it does not necessarily require you to put on 450 lapis either. Putting on 1 single piece of lapis will, by using it over time, grow into 450 lapis and thus looting 3 and/or fortune 3.
 
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Loufmier

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true, but vanilla tools are still necessary to make decent tools in tinkers, assuming you don't find a village with a billion tinkers huts (like there seems to be).
if it was necessary, i doubt there was option to disable vanilla tools. it may be tricky but not necessary.
 

SatanicSanta

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if it was necessary, i doubt there was option to disable vanilla tools. it may be tricky but not necessary.
true. I feel like making a tinkers wood pick is kinda pointless though. Can you use broken wood tinkers tools as fuel?


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AlanEsh

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I will now hijack this silly thread with TiCo appreciation statements!

I just started playing with TiCo last night, and I find it quite FUN! I don't have a smeltery yet but I do have access to many slimes in a nearby swamp. I am very happy with the results of :
- Flint Pick/Shovel/Axe heads mounted on Slime handles.
- Use a Stone binding for your pick and get "Stonebound" (mines faster as its durability degrades, but does less damage in a fight).

I also have a Flint sword with a cactus guard and slime handle; it is a nice upgrade from the vanilla stone sword.

Here are some names of my TiCo gear! I am amused by naming things to indicate what they are made of:
Pick -- "Flint Slimestone"
Sword -- "Flint Slimeprick" ( lol )
Mattock -- "Flint Flintslime"

Now back to your regularly scheduled "game balance" silliness.
 

SatanicSanta

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Jul 29, 2019
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I will now hijack this silly thread with TiCo appreciation statements!

I just started playing with TiCo last night, and I find it quite FUN! I don't have a smeltery yet but I do have access to many slimes in a nearby swamp. I am very happy with the results of :
- Flint Pick/Shovel/Axe heads mounted on Slime handles.
- Use a Stone binding for your pick and get "Stonebound" (mines faster as its durability degrades, but does less damage in a fight).

I also have a Flint sword with a cactus guard and slime handle; it is a nice upgrade from the vanilla stone sword.

Here are some names of my TiCo gear! I am amused by naming things to indicate what they are made of:
Pick -- "Flint Slimestone"
Sword -- "Flint Slimeprick" ( lol )
Mattock -- "Flint Flintslime"

Now back to your regularly scheduled "game balance" silliness.
I do enjoy your capitalized FUN that goes alongside with your avatar :p


Sent from a rich kids phone that I stole. (I'll regift it soon)
 
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Loufmier

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true. I feel like making a tinkers wood pick is kinda pointless though. Can you use broken wood tinkers tools as fuel?
it`s kinda same as making wooden vanilla pick. so i dont see any issue with that. i have no idea about fuel part though. i always ended up throwing such things away.
 

Antice

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Jul 29, 2019
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I fon
true. I feel like making a tinkers wood pick is kinda pointless though. Can you use broken wood tinkers tools as fuel?


Sent from a rich kids phone that I stole. (I'll regift it soon)

I don't think you can burn it, but i usually use it till it breaks, and then use it for decoration in a shelf or an item frame sign.

Also, you can go direct to either cactus or flint by harvesting gravel or cactus by hand.
Thus your first pick will last until you get a metal one.
 

SatanicSanta

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it`s kinda same as making wooden vanilla pick. so i dont see any issue with that. i have no idea about fuel part though. i always ended up throwing such things away.
not really because you need stencils, stencil table, tool station, and when it breaks you still have the pick.


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Zjarek_S

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true, but vanilla tools are still necessary to make decent tools in tinkers, assuming you don't find a village with a billion tinkers huts (like there seems to be).
No they aren't. I played without vanilla tools and I had no problem, stone tools and flint weapons are quite useful.
 

Antice

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You only need a bit of copper and a couple of pieces of aluminum ore or gravel ore to make your first casts for a metal pick. It does force you to search for 2 stacks of sand, clay and gravel, but all of it can ne found on the surface.
 

Loufmier

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not really because you need stencils, stencil table, tool station, and when it breaks you still have the pick.
it is a bit more time consuming than using a crafting bench, but it`s not that bad and all of it is explained in logical manner. so i dont have any issues if vanilla tools were disabled by default.
 

SatanicSanta

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You only need a bit of copper and a couple of pieces of aluminum ore or gravel ore to make your first casts for a metal pick. It does force you to search for 2 stacks of sand, clay and gravel, but all of it can ne found on the surface.
you also need the materials to make the pick.


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SatanicSanta

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it is a bit more time consuming than using a crafting bench, but it`s not that bad and all of it is explained in logical manner. so i dont have any issues if vanilla tools were disabled by default.
honestly, it just seems unnecessary. I use vanilla tools up to stone, then I use bronze if I can find some or some other metal besides iron, and usually use tc from that point on. Disabling stone and wood tools is just a little useless.


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Antice

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honestly, it just seems unnecessary. I use vanilla tools up to stone, then I use bronze if I can find some or some other metal besides iron, and usually use tc from that point on. Disabling stone and wood tools is just a little useless.


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It's definitely faster to go vanilla up to iron, then once you have all the stuff you need to make a TC steel pick handy, make one of those. but hey, it's a fun little challenge to do it the hard way, Not really grindy at all tbh, getting 2 stacks of each of the required resources for the smelter is a fast prospect once you find them, just have to explore a bit more than usual before starting the diggy hole process.
before you get a smeltery there is also no point in going deep, it's much faster to search for shallow iron and gravel ores. you can't mine anything down deep at any rate til you get a metal pick. and once you do, you also have access to the hammer and lumber axe. thus making the building of your mining shaft/open stripmine much faster.
 

SatanicSanta

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It's definitely faster to go vanilla up to iron, then once you have all the stuff you need to make a TC steel pick handy, make one of those. but hey, it's a fun little challenge to do it the hard way, Not really grindy at all tbh, getting 2 stacks of each of the required resources for the smelter is a fast prospect once you find them, just have to explore a bit more than usual before starting the diggy hole process.
before you get a smeltery there is also no point in going deep, it's much faster to search for shallow iron and gravel ores. you can't mine anything down deep at any rate til you get a metal pick. and once you do, you also have access to the hammer and lumber axe. thus making the building of your mining shaft/open stripmine much faster.

Bronze is better and cheaper than iron. It can mine everything iron can with an addition of around 99 more durability. This is true for all bronze tools.
 
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