They come in various sizes. I suppose my thought process on the whole thing is to go with the simplest solution I can think of.
Thermal Expansion Status
- Thread starter King Lemming
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Nether Quartz is easy to find. So easy in fact that people even in vanilla make complete buildings from quartz blocks.
EnderIO machines can be upgraded, with the highest upgrade they are really fast. To make a full stack of the fused quartz only takes a few seconds.
The size of the conduits can be changed in the config. At the maximum setting the three cables (power, liquid, redstone) together fill pretty much the complete block. Makes it really easy to place them.
1. Mod A introduces an item. Everyone is happy! A new thing to play with!
2. Mod B introduces a better one, superior in every way, and nobody uses the Mod A item any more.
3. Mod A introduces a slightly better version of its item.
4. Mod B disappears.
5. "Mod A item is rubbish! I can't use it! Mod A sucks!"
Remove lines 2 and 4, and how foolish does this look?
You can't just "remove 2 and 4" as if they never existed. If you change 3 to "Mod A introduces a better version of Mod B's item." then it would be a different story, but it's more like "Mod A introduces something inferior to Mod B, and in the process, renders Mod B's item unusable." So now you're stuck with something inferior to Mod B's item with no alternative.
While mods often take into account what other mods do, it is not a necessity for them to. Not all mods need to be balanced among all other mods. So long as it's balanced around itself, which it is, then it's balanced.
The problem is, not that BC liquid transport pipes are too slow but that TE liquiducts are just that good. Now I don't hold that against either BC or TE as both options were created with a particular design in mind. BC pipes were designed to be calculated pipe-by-pipe and nothing in BC itself requires any more flow than the pipes can accommodate. Within it's own mod it's balanced. TE liquiducts, on the other hand, were created with server efficiency in mind, as all of Lemming's stuff is. That just happens to also be more efficient to us as users as well, but that's a side-effect.
Their a flat out requirement for larger servers that focus on large scale production. Literally nothing we make would function with BC pipes, the server would grind to a halt as the pipes just backlog til they freeze up entirely if you have enough of them, they are simply not designed for anything grander then single player worlds with small specific systems inside them.
When BC 4.0 came around they should have redone the waterproof pipes, they were the things in dire need of help, the power pipes had their problems but they were no where near as bad as this. They come from a era when all there was was BC, there wasn't even mod loaders or forge when they came into service and they haven't changed at all.
I've not used the updated pipes yet, so I can't tell you what I think of them. If you still find them to be unbearable, though, you might want to try EnderIO's liquid conduit or Extra Utilities' liquid transfer nodes.
Just because the current implementation of pipes doesn't suit your needs, that doesn't mean that they are not designed with Buildcraft in mind.
Gates are still useful when used in conjuction with red pipe wire and/or some form of redstone wire.
The 'simple' solution goes something like this, assuming all BC piping (no conduit or anything). Now, you'll still have power lost, but it won't be constant. Set a gate on the power line, right next to each machine. Make sure you have a piece of pipe wire connected and set the gate's conditional to Has Work, and emit red pipe signal. Run the wire to your engine(s), where a gate sits on the emerald/wooden pipe. That gate is 'red pipe signal on' -> 'Redstone signal on'. Your engines will pump as long as there is work for the machine to do, and no more. When the work is done, the engines will turn off and any excess power that was accumulated in the machines and lines will dissipate.
This setup requires gates of at least Iron level and will set you back about 30000 mj per machine, plus 30000 mj per engine. However, it's not intelligent, and if you have several machines hooked up to the same power system, you will power them all.
You should be able to stop that from happening with iron kinesis pipes and yet more gates (of at least gold level), but I haven't tested anything like that to be sure. It also might be possible to bypass the 'extra' gates with clever use of rednet cabling and iron kinesis pipes, using different channels to control the pipes you want active and running those to the engines. I can sort of visualize how you'd do it, I think, but again, haven't built anything of that sort. It could be an interesting project, but it's not practical. Rather than spend the time and resources to make all of those gates, just break the machines and keep them in display boxes on the wall so you can pull down what you need until you're at a later game solution that is more forgiving of lost power.
Edit: (weird font issue)
It's sad though when a fun/useful thing breaks or goes away. I really miss the shiny garish blocks of Xycraft, but Soaryn was/is busy. I've since found other shiny blocks to play with and there are other means of moving fluids/power around.
No I don't think you quite understand what PhilHibbs is trying to say.
You took it too literally when he said remove lines 2 and 4. Mod A had a perfectly functioning item that everyone was happy with. Then Mod B introduces a better item and everyone uses that (because why not?). Mod A then introduces a slightly better version of it's own item, but doesn't necessarily feel the need to compete directly with Mod B's item because although it is part of a mod pack, Mod A is built with Mod A in mind.
And then Mod B doesn't get updated, everyone goes back to Mod A's item and start hating because Mod A's item isn't exactly like Mod B's item. Yet looking at the history, people had enjoyed Mod A's initial item and it even updated it to a better version. This is what he means by foolishness.
Its more like this.
1. Mod A (Buildcraft) introduces original ideal of an item (Waterpoof Pipes), people are happy as it does its job though primitive because no one has ever seen anything like it.
2. Time Passes, Mod A's item is no longer capable of meeting the changing demands it wasn't originally designed for, so Mod B (Thermal Expansion) introduces a different item that functions in a different way. (Different.)
3. People adopt Mod B's as the standard and no longer use Mod A's item which has not been changed or updated since release.
4. After a long time sudden changes by Mod A force Mod B's item to not be able to exist.
5. Crisis occurs as systems have been designed to function with Mod B, Mod A is physically incapable of meeting the requirements.
1. Mod A (Buildcraft) introduces original ideal of an item (Waterpoof Pipes), people are happy as it does its job though primitive because no one has ever seen anything like it.
2. Time Passes, Mod A's item is no longer capable of meeting the changing demands it wasn't originally designed for, so Mod B (Thermal Expansion) introduces a different item that functions in a different way. (Different.)
3. People adopt Mod B's as the standard and no longer use Mod A's item which has not been changed or updated since release.
4. After a long time sudden changes by Mod A force Mod B's item to not be able to exist.
5. Crisis occurs as systems have been designed to function with Mod B, Mod A is physically incapable of meeting the requirements.
I have yet to meet a system i can not get working with BC pipes. And it is not only the changes in Mod A which make Mod B's item not be able to exist in it's current state!
Really. Here's the prototype of one of our refineries we run on our server (we have 3 of these.). http://i.imgur.com/tAPqmyd.png This refinery design was divided into 5 sections of 20 that can be scaled with need. Most of the time all 5 sections are running 100% 24/7. So to test we converted just the piping on the magmatic engines, refineries and the tanks that feed them to BC piping and we can't even turn on the single section of it before the server plummets to from 20t to 5tish per second trying to fill the refineries and the engines (poorly I may add, the levels are all over the place). With a empty flat test world with this the only thing on it, it grinds to a halt. Now imagine on the real server with the entire refinery converted, actually imagine all 3 of the refineries with just BC pipes? Now triple all those pipes because you have no Liquid Tesseracs either. Now imagine that's only the thing making the fuel for the actual power plants. How well do you think 16 36HP boilers sending all their steam thru Liquiducts to Turbines converted to BC Pipes fare just for the EU we use let alone the others for MJ? Like I said. Single player people who build small things can live without Liquiducts, they were never designed for you, they were invented to keep the server from imploding with tons of BC pipes constantly requiring cpu updates.
You showed the exact flaw with this.
If you run a series of machines off of a series of engines, if you shut the engines down for 1 machine, all the machines that do actually run constantly lose all power.
The only way this is useful is if you have a separate power generator for the machines that have constant power drain and do not run constantly.
'get working', maybe. But i (and i assume most other people) care about things like 'speed' and 'efficiency'. Especially speed, because time is the one thing no one can get more of. Keep defending 'Mod A' for being 'its own mod' all you want, it won't change the fact that 'Mod A' is generally inferior to 'Mod B' in the regard you argue. Simple as. I'm not trying to downplay 'Mod A' here, its still fantastic. But, there are solid reasons for the dislike of the pipes.
No machine would run constantly (unless it actually had something to do), because they'd only be supplied power when the Has Work condition is true. Not Power Requested.
Now, if you had a machine constantly doing something (dunno..a pulverizer with a quarry input, or making sand), then you would be better off with it on a distinct power line (the new plugs are good for that). That's a design consideration that has to be weighed, obviously, but the system I described should not allow machines like a rolling machine or thermionic fabricator to request power if they didn't have work to do. There is still waste, but it is mitigated, and only present when work is being done, or has recently been done.
I understand exactly what he said, but the point is that you can't just take "Mod B" out of the equation. It isn't that TE's item just isn't being updated because he doesn't want to update it, it is a direct conflict within new BC system. So instead of stepping on "Mod A's" toes, he is toying with doing his own thing. If he just didn't feel like updating because he just didn't want to, there wouldn't be an issue, sh..stuff happens... but because the reason the item is basically "going away" is due to something BC is implementing, the issue exists.
I think the flaw in the "new system" isn't what Mero said, but what you, yourself, said,
It shouldn't work like this. As I stated earlier, I don't have to shove pipes all over my house to tell it to turn off my stove when it's not in use. It has a handy little switch on it for me to turn it off at will. Obviously, having every mod auther who uses MJ power implement a built-in power-switch is unfeasible and won't happen. But with the way MJ is currently being restructured, (and if I understood what KL posted) this would have to happen in order for any machine/mod using MJ not to drain while not in use, or every one would have to accept a redstone-signal-on/off switch (in essence requiring everyone to hang a million pipes/gates everywhere for a truly automated and efficient system) Again, from what I understood, BC is basically setting up how they feel their power should be used/distributed with no room for another mod's input. (In their new system, you have no power-loss over distance, you can't add a % to powerloss if you wanted to, and machines would slowly lose their "charge" over time, so if the machine is actively connected to the power grid, it will constantly use/lose/drain power.)
Oh...I agree with you. I am not a fan of power perdition. I was merely offering some of the technical details of a way to work around the idea of a constant trickle draw.
I also think it would be possible to set the system up in such a way that it would only power specific machines that actually had work to do, rather than everything on the line ... but I haven't tried to make such a system, so I'm not sure. And it would probably be more expensive than you'd really want.
More like:
There is zero advantage to having gate conditionals to turn on or off steam engines because the boiler is producing steam despite any demand for power or not. So there's really no reason to turn OFF the engines, because the fuel is being constantly consumed whether or not you use the steam output or not. So, since my machines require constant input of energy despite working or not, I might as well build enough engines to keep everything running, set up the automation, then just walk away and never touch the system again.
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