The rebirth of IC2 ?

Loufmier

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Major design flaws? What flaws? The only flaw I see is the energy net being just a bit unstable and inefficient in terms of computer resources.
to put it simple: energy generation doesnt match energy consumption. it`s better seen with GT and without solar mods.
 

Loufmier

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You've gotta place down a lot of generators to power a small amount of machines. I think. Can't say I agree.
that`s probably as simple as you can get on this topic.

the main gameplay issue is that, only thing you have is lv generators and a variable generator ranging from lv to EV in for of a nuke, however sustaining even MV nuke can be somewhat troublesome. so what mod need is addition of MV producers, and after recent changes HV too, a side from nuke.

i`ve mentioned GT, because it mainly adds MV consumers, with only 1 MV producer to counter it, thus illuminating lack of MV generation.
 

frederikam

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that`s probably as simple as you can get on this topic.

the main gameplay issue is that, only thing you have is lv generators and a variable generator ranging from lv to EV in for of a nuke, however sustaining even MV nuke can be somewhat troublesome. so what mod need is addition of MV producers, and after recent changes HV too, a side from nuke.

i`ve mentioned GT, because it mainly adds MV consumers, with only 1 MV producer to counter it, thus illuminating lack of MV generation.
Well I'd just make some solars to cover it. Or generators running on coalcoke from my big tree farm. And well yes that works.
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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Well I'd just make some solars to cover it. Or generators running on coalcoke from my big tree farm. And well yes that works.
I'd suggest stopping a moment to consider what you just said, because it probably highlights Loufmier's argument better than anything else.

There aren't many viable means of generating power in IC2. Your options are:

* Solar
* Charcoal-driven plain generators
* Geothermals

Oh sure, there's also Nuclear, if you want to sink the resources, but unless you go to some rather extreme measures (as I have done a time or two), it would generally be cheaper and easier in the long run to just make an equivalent bank of geothermals, charcoal driven generators, or compact solar arrays. Hell, an HV solar array cranks out more energy out of a single block with zero fuel requirements and lower initial layout than the largest six-chamber single reactor Mk. I design anyone has ever come up with (the largest being at 420 EU/t).

His statement is that he'd like a variety of viable energy sources. It is a very reasonable one, in my opinion. Nuclear is better than what it was, but it still isn't able to really compete all that heavily without Extra Bees feeding it uranium (even then, it's more expensive and generally more bulky than an equivalent of geothermals).

There are no generators which produce more than 20 EU/t, other than Nuclear. Every single EU production design requires a lot of little energy producers. This, in turn, vastly contributes to the resource problems because each energy producer makes its own little packet when must then be tracked independently.

One of the things I really like about Mekanism is the variety of generators it has. For example, let's look at the Hydrogen Generator. It requires an Electrolytic Seperator to keep it going. The Electrolytic Seperator requires water and power. Now, the overall output of a Hydrogen Generator and Electrolytic Seperator is very energy-positive (meaning it generates more power than it uses), however if it 'runs dry', it can end up shutting down, and will need a 'jump start' to get going again. This is a deliberate balance point because while you CAN find a work-around, it means you will NEED to. It isn't simply fire and forget, you need to build your power network in such a way as to be able to provide that kick-start if you run it dry. This is exactly the sort of system I enjoy building. And it generates quite a bit of power, which is only fitting considering not only the expense but the design layout work needed to keep it working.

Honestly, I've made the switch to Mekanism, and I'm honestly enjoying myself thoroughly. I can get triple ore production theoretically (although it chews through flint at an insane rate, and making flint a renewable resource is not cheap, either in terms of resources or in terms of power requirements), but it is a lot easier to simply get double production with a couple of machines. The Configurator gives Mekanism machines a thermal-expansion-esque ability to configure precisely which sides are related to which slot in the GUI. You should see the round-robin design KirinDave came up with to fully automate the process with Translocators. Mind you, I'll still be picking up Thermal Expansion when it comes out again, if for no other reason than the power, liquid, and yes even item transportation solutions. Plus there's a few machines which would really make my life a lot easier (Aqueous Accumulators!!!!). But for now, Mekanism is doing a pretty darn impressive job.
 

frederikam

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I'd suggest stopping a moment to consider what you just said, because it probably highlights Loufmier's argument better than anything else.

There aren't many viable means of generating power in IC2. Your options are:

* Solar
* Charcoal-driven plain generators
* Geothermals

Oh sure, there's also Nuclear, if you want to sink the resources, but unless you go to some rather extreme measures (as I have done a time or two), it would generally be cheaper and easier in the long run to just make an equivalent bank of geothermals, charcoal driven generators, or compact solar arrays. Hell, an HV solar array cranks out more energy out of a single block with zero fuel requirements and lower initial layout than the largest six-chamber single reactor Mk. I design anyone has ever come up with (the largest being at 420 EU/t).

His statement is that he'd like a variety of viable energy sources. It is a very reasonable one, in my opinion. Nuclear is better than what it was, but it still isn't able to really compete all that heavily without Extra Bees feeding it uranium (even then, it's more expensive and generally more bulky than an equivalent of geothermals).

There are no generators which produce more than 20 EU/t, other than Nuclear. Every single EU production design requires a lot of little energy producers. This, in turn, vastly contributes to the resource problems because each energy producer makes its own little packet when must then be tracked independently.
First of all I have yet to see what Mekanism delivers.

When it comes to nuclear reactors in the future IC2 will come with a method of filling used cells, this is not something I can confirm. If this is true the only thing you'd potentially be using is uranium to keep it running. And I can't disagree that innovating new in a balanced manner would be neat. Especially if things are balanced by availability (IE GregoriusT added a generator running as long as it got the ender egg ontop). Also things that are found in dungeon chests and things like that. We shouldn't have 10 different generators running similarly. The reactor is a good example on how it's limited by uranium. Would be interesting to see if Mekanisnm acts like that.
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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First of all I have yet to see what Mekanism delivers.

When it comes to nuclear reactors in the future IC2 will come with a method of filling used cells, this is not something I can confirm. If this is true the only thing you'd potentially be using is uranium to keep it running. And I can't disagree that innovating new in a balanced manner would be neat. Especially if things are balanced by availability (IE GregoriusT added a generator running as long as it got the ender egg ontop). Also things that are found in dungeon chests and things like that. We shouldn't have 10 different generators running similarly. The reactor is a good example on how it's limited by uranium. Would be interesting to see if Mekanisnm acts like that.
Mekanism tends to limit itself by forcing you to consider different methodologies of implementation rather than making itself obsolete when a non-renewable resource runs out. Much closer to my idea of 'innovative', to be honest.

Availability is not something you should balance on. Sustainability is a requirement for any realistic power network. If you can run out of fuel, you shouldn't be using it as a permanent power source. Of course, you might need to rely on a non-renewable power source to boot-strap yourself into a more permanent solution, but it should never be something you rely on as your primary power source.
 

frederikam

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Mekanism tends to limit itself by forcing you to consider different methodologies of implementation rather than making itself obsolete when a non-renewable resource runs out. Much closer to my idea of 'innovative', to be honest.

Availability is not something you should balance on. Sustainability is a requirement for any realistic power network. If you can run out of fuel, you shouldn't be using it as a permanent power source. Of course, you might need to rely on a non-renewable power source to boot-strap yourself into a more permanent solution, but it should never be something you rely on as your primary power source.
I was actually thinking about something that limits the amount of generators you can run (ingredients hidden in dungeons?) rather than limiting generators by fuel. And well, IC2 solars are actually quite a stable solution.
 

PeggleFrank

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Which is exactly the problem. Solars need scrapping. Permanently.
Compact solars, at least. The balancing point in solars is space. They're semi-cheap to make, and they produce miniscule amounts of power, meaning that you need to make tons of cabling and tons of solars to get anything out of them. It also results is massive, ugly solar fields which look bad in almost any base.

With a compact/advanced solar, you put down one block, and you have instant HV. It's much different from placing down 512 solar panels and 512 cables.
 
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GPuzzle

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I was actually thinking about something that limits the amount of generators you can run (ingredients hidden in dungeons?) rather than limiting generators by fuel. And well, IC2 solars are actually quite a stable solution.
Yeah, put power generation in the hands of the RNG. Like that's gonna work.
A better solution are generations who need to recieve an external power source before they can do anything - that's why I use a peat-fired engine to kickstart my Mekanism system. Like the biofuel one (Mekanism's biofuel, mind you).
On the other hand, if you want innovative power generation, go check out Lambert2191's RR YouTube series and Saice's Cactus to Coal Coke system.
They don't need to be innovative with the generator itself, but rather with WHAT the generator is fed with.
 
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frederikam

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Compact solars, at least. The balancing point in solars is space. They're semi-cheap to make, and they produce miniscule amounts of power, meaning that you need to make tons of cabling and tons of solars to get anything out of them. It also results is massive, ugly solar fields which look bad in almost any base.

With a compact/advanced solar, you put down one block, and you have instant HV. It's much different from placing down 512 solar panels and 512 cables.
I'd agree solars should be more expensive, but I really like compact solars, it's efficient computer wise.
 

GPuzzle

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Compact solars, at least. The balancing point in solars is space. They're semi-cheap to make, and they produce miniscule amounts of power, meaning that you need to make tons of cabling and tons of solars to get anything out of them. It also results is massive, ugly solar fields which look bad in almost any base.

With a compact/advanced solar, you put down one block, and you have instant HV. It's much different from placing down 512 solar panels and 512 cables.
Compact solars are actually better lag-wise. They cost as much as the number of solars that should theoretically be outputting and a transformer, which means that the number of packets flowing through is much, much less than a field of 512 solar panels.
 

Loufmier

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Compact solars are actually better lag-wise. They cost as much as the number of solars that should theoretically be outputting and a transformer, which means that the number of packets flowing through is much, much less than a field of 512 solar panels.
well i have to agree, that compact solar have a good intent to reduce lag, but this resulted in a gameplay disaster.
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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How? It's not really a benefit gameplay wise for the most part.
Again, we're talking about gameplay concepts here, not merely resource concepts. A single HV panel may be just as expensive as 512 individual solar panels, however the logistics involved in placing one is a HECK of a lot simpler than setting up about five or six chunks worth of solar flowers. Sure, it may be a royal PITA to obtain the materials necessary, but crafting it is straightforward, and can even be completely automated with ease, once you have those materials. And, of course, placing it is just as easy as placing a single block hooked up to some Glass Fibre Cable. Properly wiring a solar flower is a royal pain, and you have to be damn careful to count your cable length because you're dealing with power output so low that if you get any resistance achieved, you lose the output of the entire flower.

I tend to use heat generators to kick-start my electrolytic converters for my hydrogen plants. However, it isn't a 'perfect' setup, because they don't produce enough power (passively) to keep the elecrolytic seperators running at full capacity. I've got a power cube (think of it as a Batbox if you like) attached to the main output from the hydrogen generators feeding back into the electrolytic seperators. This is more than enough to keep them going, and still have plenty for the rest of my network. However, if my power draw spikes and I start draining more power from the system, the heat generators at least make certain that I can turn the lights back on after they go out, even if it means powering down everything else and letting it 'spin up' first. I haven't had a chance to use the Bio Fuel powered biogenerator yet, although I was VERY surprised when I was doing some testing for wiki updating. Bio Fuel runs for a very long time in the BioGenerator, comparatively speaking, and you get quite a bit of it out of renewable resources (four bio fuel out of each what crushed, I believe), making it a surprisingly viable fuel source.
 

Loufmier

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I haven't had a chance to use the Bio Fuel powered biogenerator yet, although I was VERY surprised when I was doing some testing for wiki updating. Bio Fuel runs for a very long time in the BioGenerator, comparatively speaking, and you get quite a bit of it out of renewable resources (four bio fuel out of each what crushed, I believe), making it a surprisingly viable fuel source.
you can also use forestry and/or MFR biofuel in those generators, which may give interesting results.
 

Siro

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There are no generators which produce more than 20 EU/t, other than Nuclear. Every single EU production design requires a lot of little energy producers. This, in turn, vastly contributes to the resource problems because each energy producer makes its own little packet when must then be tracked independently.
This is being addressed by player, that's why IC2 is getting a new energy network. Once that's done, one won't need to use compact solars in order to avoid server lag in large solar installations. As a reminder, solar is a bad source of power outside a no weather 24/7 daylight mystcraft age. In the normal world where it's night 50% of the time and raining 25-50% of the remaining time (or worse if anyone is using Thaumcraft), so no power (or vastly reduced if one is using Advanced Solar Panels mod) is being produced anyway.