The future of FTB Modpacks pt 2

[Sirithil]

Yeah... as Uriah said, Greg already "had his own pack" because 152 comes in ngt and wgt flavors already.

No, not really. The only difference between ngt and wgt is that one has Dartcraft and the other has Gregtech. You could just as easily call them wdc and ndc. According to Slow's twitter and this post from Greg the new pack is being explicitly designed around the Gregtech 'vision'. It's explicitly his own pack.

 

[Droideka30]

If we were speaking purely in technicalities then you would be right. However I think that your interpretation of the situation may be a bit too literal, and downplaying what conspired. In my opinion we must also consider the intent as well as the context of what happened just as much as what the change actually does.

When the actual crash first started happening users of GregTech reported it as a bug the same as they normally would. Greg then responded by putting all of the blame on Tinkers Construct and leading people to believe that it was strictly faulty code that mDiyo needed to fix. Then when people suspected GregTech of intentionally crashing the game he continued to lie about it, and still attempted to place 100% of the blame on mDiyo.

It wasn't until proof was presented that Greg was intentionally crashing the game that he finally admitted to it. Then at that point he essentially started bragging about how effective his tactics were, and publicly said he intended to incite a mob mentality against mDiyo and to use that as pressure for him to remove the wood plank un-nerfing.

That, in my opinion, is purely malicious behavior which goes beyond a simple "intended incompatibility". If his goal was merely to make GregTech incompatible with TiC then he would have publicly announced such a move. He wouldn't lie about it until being caught red handed and then crow about how effective his deceit was.

I agree with you 100%. But there is a difference between illegally distributing malware and simply being a dishonest, arrogant jerk. (I could use a stronger word, but I won't.) Greg has done the latter, but people are accusing him of the former.

 

[Blu_Haze]

Also, greg tech players would just toss FTB away and FTB would definitively lose players.

Not as many as you might think.

I've enjoyed GregTech for quite some time now. At first I didn't really like IC2 because of how easy everything was to make, even the crazy powerful items. After I installed GregTech I started to really enjoy playing with both IC2 and the new machines that Greg added to game. It made my blood boil when I saw people randomly bashing GregTech just because it nerfed a few recipes or seemed a little crazy at first glance, almost to the point of being a fanboy.

I could deal with some of the crazier changes made to the game by Greg (even the recent nerfing of the vanilla tools). I could even deal with the narcissistic attitude of the mod developer himself.

Maliciously causing the game to crash for no other reason than a petty dispute between mod developers however is crossing a line with me. It violates an implied trust that users give to mod developers, and once that trust is lost it is sometimes impossible to repair. How can I ever trust the presence of his mod to not harm any of the worlds that I've spent many weeks and months of my life building up to something that I could be proud of, now knowing what lengths he's willing to go to just to resolve a dispute that I had no part in to begin with?

After reading everything that transpired between the two, I immediately removed GregTech from my personal mod pack, and I doubt that I'll ever change my mind on that either. This isn't something that's easy for me to say, because I really did enjoy what his mod added to my Minecraft experience.

I know that I'm not alone in feeling this way, either, because I've read many other people who have posted similar feelings as well.

 

[Droideka30]

No, not really. The only difference between ngt and wgt is that one has Dartcraft and the other has Gregtech. You could just as easily call them wdc and ndc. According to Slow's twitter and this post from Greg the new pack is being explicitly designed around the Gregtech 'vision'. It's explicitly his own pack.

I'd rather have Greg get his own pack, than have him infect Ultimate with his insanity.

 

[Jadedcat]

http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/threads/new-forum-rule.26666/

I suggest people in this thread acquaint themselves with the new rule.

 

[slowpoke]

OK so I might as well address this issue of GregT is being rewarded with his own modpack after what has happened. Firstly there is no reward or anything like this. This idea of having a modpack designed around gregs 'vision' of a mod pack is one I floated a couple of weeks ago and have looked since then. The intention was to have this pack as well as a gregtech branch of the main FTB pack. Now however I am looking at just having this specialised gregtech pack and there will no longer be a 'wgt' branch of the main pack. Essentially this is pretty much down to how much Gregtech has evolved since we first added it into FTB. It is no longer really suitable for a mainstream pack that contains a huge variety of mods. This opens the door to to many imbalances. Making a more focused pack will make for a better gameplay experience for those that like that sort of thing. (this pack will be much rougher than the current ones.) Then we will tweak the current main pack to try and make it more server friendly.

There is no punishments or rewards here this is just us trying to make the best packs we can.

 

[Droideka30]

With regards to the possibility of future mod updates containing malware:
Regardless of my trust in any particular developer, I have faith in the FTB team to find any possible malicious code and resolve the situation in beta testing before the modpack is released publicly.

 

[Deathshroud09]

OK so I might as well address this issue of GregT is being rewarded with his own modpack after what has happened. Firstly there is no reward or anything like this. This idea of having a modpack designed around gregs 'vision' of a mod pack is one I floated a couple of weeks ago and have looked since then. The intention was to have this pack as well as a gregtech branch of the main FTB pack. Now however I am looking at just having this specialised gregtech pack and there will no longer be a 'wgt' branch of the main pack. Essentially this is pretty much down to how much Gregtech has evolved since we first added it into FTB. It is no longer really suitable for a mainstream pack that contains a huge variety of mods. This opens the door to to many imbalances. Making a more focused pack will make for a better gameplay experience for those that like that sort of thing. (this pack will be much rougher than the current ones.) Then we will tweak the current main pack to try and make it more server friendly.

There is no punishments or rewards here this is just us trying to make the best packs we can.

In my honest opinion, Slowpoke. I love the Gregtech machines, as it adds new stuff to IC2 in mid-late game, along with some end-game stuff. My problem is with the changes to vanilla, and changes to other packs. I want the part of Gregtech that adds, not takes away from Minecraft. Include Gregtech, but make the default configs specifically avoid all changes to vanilla and other mod's recipes. I believe that this would make pretty much everyone happy, you can still have the "Gregpack" but i do not want to miss the many machines that he has brought into IC2. You can call it the Gregtech IC2 addition pack, and the "Gregpack" will be the Gregtech conversion mod. Please consider this and talk with mDiyo, GregoriusT, and the other mod developers. Again, just include the things Gregtech adds to the pack, avoiding the recipe changes and "nerfs" including IC2.

 

[Droideka30]

When Ultimate for MC 1.6.x is released, will it include Gregtech, Tinker's Construct, both, or neither?

 

[Droideka30]

In my honest opinion, Slowpoke. I love the Gregtech machines, as it adds new stuff to IC2 in mid-late game, along with some end-game stuff. My problem is with the changes to vanilla, and changes to other packs. I want the part of Gregtech that adds, not takes away from Minecraft. Include Gregtech, but make the default configs specifically avoid all changes to vanilla and other mod's recipes. I believe that this would make pretty much everyone happy, you can still have the "Gregpack" but i do not want to miss the many machines that he has brought into IC2. You can call it the Gregtech IC2 addition pack, and the "Gregpack" will be the Gregtech conversion mod. Please consider this and talk with mDiyo, GregoriusT, and the other mod developers. Again, just include the things Gregtech adds to the pack, avoiding the recipe changes and "nerfs" including IC2.

I could not agree more.

 

[Velotican]

In my honest opinion, Slowpoke. I love the Gregtech machines, as it adds new stuff to IC2 in mid-late game, along with some end-game stuff. My problem is with the changes to vanilla, and changes to other packs. I want the part of Gregtech that adds, not takes away from Minecraft. Include Gregtech, but make the default configs specifically avoid all changes to vanilla and other mod's recipes. I believe that this would make pretty much everyone happy, you can still have the "Gregpack" but i do not want to miss the many machines that he has brought into IC2. You can call it the Gregtech IC2 addition pack, and the "Gregpack" will be the Gregtech conversion mod. Please consider this and talk with mDiyo, GregoriusT, and the other mod developers. Again, just include the things Gregtech adds to the pack, avoiding the recipe changes and "nerfs" including IC2.

This is a lot more difficult to do than you think it is, and the FTB team won't be able to service this request without making a mod for it, and that's not in their M.O.

E: Herp-de-derp, this is an especially embarassing misread on my part as until recently I actually did this very thing you ask myself! I won't be anymore though, due to recent events.

 

[loboca]

In my honest opinion, Slowpoke. I love the Gregtech machines, as it adds new stuff to IC2 in mid-late game, along with some end-game stuff. My problem is with the changes to vanilla, and changes to other packs. I want the part of Gregtech that adds, not takes away from Minecraft. Include Gregtech, but make the default configs specifically avoid all changes to vanilla and other mod's recipes. I believe that this would make pretty much everyone happy, you can still have the "Gregpack" but i do not want to miss the many machines that he has brought into IC2. You can call it the Gregtech IC2 addition pack, and the "Gregpack" will be the Gregtech conversion mod. Please consider this and talk with mDiyo, GregoriusT, and the other mod developers. Again, just include the things Gregtech adds to the pack, avoiding the recipe changes and "nerfs" including IC2.

That's exactly what I do. I like toys, so I like gt. Simple as that. See, there are these things called "configs"...

 

[Velotican]

Yup, whoops, I think my brain's fried for the day.

 

[Deathshroud09]

That's exactly what I do. I like toys, so I like gt. Simple as that. See, there are these things called "configs"...[DOUBLEPOST=1374266833][/DOUBLEPOST]
No it's not. And it doesn't require a "mod". Now, whether or not they choose to do it (w/wo TiC) is up to FTB.

This is what i was trying to say, simply keep Gregtech with altered configs in the main modpack, try to talk to the developers and come to this compromise to allow TiC and this Gregtech together. It would be better for all end users that enjoy the mod but dislike the invasions it attempts.

 

[Sirithil]

With regards to the possibility of future mod updates containing malware:
Regardless of my trust in any particular developer, I have faith in the FTB team to find any possible malicious code and resolve the situation in beta testing before the modpack is released publicly.

Doing this reliably would necessitate decompiling the mods, which Jadedcat has already told us they don't, and won't, do.

 

[loboca]

This is what i was trying to say, simply keep Gregtech with altered configs in the main modpack, try to talk to the developers and come to this compromise to allow TiC and this Gregtech together. It would be better for all end users that enjoy the mod but dislike the invasions it attempts.

(I edited my other post after Velotican replyed that he derped, but anyway)
Ya, if they go with a "easy mode" toys pack, I'll prob just add in gt myself. Did that with mystcraft and a few others in the 1.4.7 Mindcrack.

 

[Sirithil]

OK so I might as well address this issue of GregT is being rewarded with his own modpack after what has happened. Firstly there is no reward or anything like this. This idea of having a modpack designed around gregs 'vision' of a mod pack is one I floated a couple of weeks ago and have looked since then. The intention was to have this pack as well as a gregtech branch of the main FTB pack. Now however I am looking at just having this specialised gregtech pack and there will no longer be a 'wgt' branch of the main pack. Essentially this is pretty much down to how much Gregtech has evolved since we first added it into FTB. It is no longer really suitable for a mainstream pack that contains a huge variety of mods. This opens the door to to many imbalances. Making a more focused pack will make for a better gameplay experience for those that like that sort of thing. (this pack will be much rougher than the current ones.) Then we will tweak the current main pack to try and make it more server friendly.

There is no punishments or rewards here this is just us trying to make the best packs we can.

This is pretty much the detailed explanation of future plans I and a number of others were probably looking for, and while I still don't think FTB should associate itself with Greg, this seems to be as reasonable an approach as possible under the circumstances.

 

[DoctorOr]

This is what i was trying to say, simply keep Gregtech with altered configs in the main modpack

Not an option. Both Greg and mDiyo have requested that they not be released together.

 

[Insomnius12]

As I see this whole situation, people are blowing it way out of proportion. Was gregs code a bad idea? yes, but I really don't think it deserves to be called malware or even malicious. As I understand it, the code if it found TC, made the game shutdown and you couldn't play until one or the other mod was removed. Is that annoying? Yes but it does no damage to any worlds at all. You just remove one of the mods, such a simple thing caused such a huge uproar. If this makes you lose trust in greg that's understandable, but to be angry to this extent is just silly. Also thinking that the FTB crew should in any way police the mod authors is silly as well, they are here to provide us with a wonderfully crafted modpack for our enjoyment. They aren't in control in any way, shape, or form of the mod authors decisions.

And another thing, the mods belong to the mod authors, not the community. They have graciously allowed us to enjoy such awesome creations and fun new things to play with at the expense of their own personal time, pretty much for free. If they don't want to be associated with another mod, that's THEIR choice, not yours or mine. A lot of you act like entitled brats. Just stop this nonsense, the situation has been handled and is now over as far as we the community are concerned.

 

[Deathshroud09]

Not an option. Both Greg and mDiyo have requested that they not be released together.

As i said in a previous post, i requested that Slowpoke possibly present this idea to both developers and hopefully come to a resolution. It was just an idea and i'd like to see them get their differences sorted out.