So this whole Gregtech thing.
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That sounds very positive to me. That means I give them permission to do with it what they want, but that if someone else grabs hold of it, Mojang is the one who fights for it, not me.
Mark Twain once said "any library is a good library that does not contain a volume by Jane Austen. Even if it contains no other book."
Thats pretty much how I feel about Gregtech. In my opinion any modpack that doesn't contain Gregtech is good. Even if it has no other mods.
Twain even said that reading Pride and Prejudice makes him want to dig up Austen's corpse and beat her with her own shin bone. I'll stop short of that in the case of Gregtech. That's just mean.
Thats pretty much how I feel about Gregtech. In my opinion any modpack that doesn't contain Gregtech is good. Even if it has no other mods.
Twain even said that reading Pride and Prejudice makes him want to dig up Austen's corpse and beat her with her own shin bone. I'll stop short of that in the case of Gregtech. That's just mean.
I am suprised noone has asked yet, but it seems one (if not THE) argument against a FTB pack with GT seems to be that "several"/"a large portion of" modders won't give tech support (i assume that means something like "if there are problems/incompatibilitys in a pack with GT, they will not get fixed, even if GT is not involved", everything else would not make much sense).
So may I ask which modders/mods are affected of that, and why that mods are so essential for a pack that you can not just exclude them from a GT pack?
The only mods that GT really depends on are IC2, NEI(to a certain extend), Forge and FML. Greg is part of the IC2 so that should not be a problem and i do not see ChickenBones and the Forge/FML participating in any boycotts.
Mods i guess would fall out are TiCon, Natura, Computercraft and MiscPeriperals (listing them because at least one of the devs has "expressed displeasal" with GT) are not what i would call essential, especially not for a GT pack.
So may I ask which modders/mods are affected of that, and why that mods are so essential for a pack that you can not just exclude them from a GT pack?
The only mods that GT really depends on are IC2, NEI(to a certain extend), Forge and FML. Greg is part of the IC2 so that should not be a problem and i do not see ChickenBones and the Forge/FML participating in any boycotts.
Mods i guess would fall out are TiCon, Natura, Computercraft and MiscPeriperals (listing them because at least one of the devs has "expressed displeasal" with GT) are not what i would call essential, especially not for a GT pack.
There's no need. The issue was a miswording according to Mojang officials on twitter. Modding is still acceptable with no changes
We have already spoken to people at Mojang. Actually a lot of people are ready that actual line but for some reason are choosing to misread what it says.
The point being here is this is in Mojangs control. Now if Mojang would like to come and give me blanket permissions for the redistribution of all mods that are made for Minecraft, then maybe we would have something. Literally while writing this post I have spoken to people at Mojang and confirmed they have no intentions of doing anything of the sort and those statements above dont even give them that right. They talk about Use, Copy, Modify, and adapt. none of this involved redistribution and that is in the hands of the mod developer.
Point being this EULA doesnt really change much as far as modpacks go.
The point being here is this is in Mojangs control. Now if Mojang would like to come and give me blanket permissions for the redistribution of all mods that are made for Minecraft, then maybe we would have something. Literally while writing this post I have spoken to people at Mojang and confirmed they have no intentions of doing anything of the sort and those statements above dont even give them that right. They talk about Use, Copy, Modify, and adapt. none of this involved redistribution and that is in the hands of the mod developer.
Point being this EULA doesnt really change much as far as modpacks go.
I doubt the problem is the mods that GT depends on so much as the ones he nerfs. If I developed a mod and someone else's mod nerfed my mod I'd feel mad. Sort of like someone else changing the oil in my car without my permission after I'd just done it, simply because they thought I needed a different type. I'd be mad about that.
I don't think you get the point of what i was asking. I asked what modders/mods were hindering a gregtech pack by a "no tech support for GT packs" rule, and if if would not be possible to simply make a pack without said mods.
Apart from that your metaphore is kinda weird, since a) Gregtech didn't "change the oil", to stay in your metaphore, it just asked the users "hey your car uses some weird oil, it would be good if you would tell the producer to use the oil everyone uses, it would make live easier for us all" and b) you can ask greg to stop "messing with your mod". In case you didn't know it doesn't "mess" with RedPower anymore since Eloraam asked him to stop (nicely, without much drama).
I agree that the metaphor isn't great. My point is that GT changes aspects of other mods. I assume that he does it with a "better to ask for forgiveness than permission" mentality (or else modders wouldn't have to ask him to stop making those changes) instead of checking with them first to see if they mind that he changes the recipe for something.
But if my car uses some "weird oil" I going to assume that the manufacturer knows best what oil it needs, and no, I'm not going to recommend to them that my Toyota use the same thing Ford uses.
I'm glad he stopped messing with Redpower. My point is that Eloraam shouldn't really have had to ask him to stop putting his hands all over her stuff....so to speak. And there's no reason for her to warrant/troubleshoot her product if the mod pack allows someone else to make changes to it.
Having everything work one way limits innovation and the ability to differentiate. It's true in racing, it's true in business, it's true in government, and it's true in game modding.
Maybe he is the greatest game modder to ever walk the earth. That still doesn't mean he can tell everyone else what to do and change things belonging to other people.
Oh, but to your original point. I'm sure that there are a number of mods than can easily be dropped from a GT pack without causing problems.
Interesting clause in the EULA. It reinfirces the moral right that I have always maintained, that I have the right to do anything I want with the software on my computer. No-one, not even my favourite modder Eloraam, has the right to tell me I can't decompile the code on my own machine.
Regarding mods changing mods, look at it from Mojang's perspective. If you have the right to distribute modifications to their game, then I have the right to distribute modifications to your mod. Same thing. I can't distribute your code, but that's also the same situation with Mojang.
Regarding mods changing mods, look at it from Mojang's perspective. If you have the right to distribute modifications to their game, then I have the right to distribute modifications to your mod. Same thing. I can't distribute your code, but that's also the same situation with Mojang.
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That's an ... "interesting" logic. So when mod "x" changes mod "y" i can install mod "z" to revert the changes that mod "x" did to mod "y"? I would be pretty sad about this because this would basically halt all development on the mods themselves since everyone would be busy reverting and adding changes to other mods.
This right here. Perfect. I've been saying this for more than a year now.
Is it really still necessary to mention the stark difference between a physical object you own and, a copied program? So you mean to tell me that if I walked up to your car and, duplicated it with a replicator then proceeded to use my choice type of oil, that would piss you off? Why? It doesn't effect you does it?
People here behave as if Greg is reaching into YOUR game, YOUR mod, changing things right out from under you while you play.
The easier solution is to not install mod "x", no? In principle, it's my copy of the game, I'll do what ever the damn hell I please with it. Thank you. If I want to install a mod that turns everyone else machines into giant mechanical pink chickens, it is within my right to do so. If you want to install my pink chickens mod AND, a mod that reverts my pink chicken augmentations well, that's your prerogative. I don't have a right to control how you wish to play your game, even if it is a tad redundant.
You missed my point completely Psionic. Why does mod "x" has to interfere with mod "y" in the first place? Because the dev of mod "x" doesn't like what mod "y" does? Why didn't the dev of mod "x" removed mod "y" from his modlist then? You can do whatever you wan't with your game, but why messing with other peoples game who play with mod "x" and mod "y"?
I would definitely play a mod that added giant mechanical pink chickens!
Since there isn't one, maybe I could create that myself. (But if greg turns my chickens blue or changes the recipe for them so that everyone who plays our mods at the same time in a pack has to use 13 iridium plates to craft them I'm gonna be ticked.)
This idea that everything is also everyone else's is strange to me. I guess legally that really is the way it works with MC mods, but it's not like that in most of life, and I dont think it's the best way for things to work.
This is why I personally think that mod packs are better off without GT. GT can copy all the other mod's code he wants (legally speaking) and can use that to generate his own style of mod pack, but I think it's better off for that to be separate.
Since there isn't one, maybe I could create that myself. (But if greg turns my chickens blue or changes the recipe for them so that everyone who plays our mods at the same time in a pack has to use 13 iridium plates to craft them I'm gonna be ticked.)
This idea that everything is also everyone else's is strange to me. I guess legally that really is the way it works with MC mods, but it's not like that in most of life, and I dont think it's the best way for things to work.
This is why I personally think that mod packs are better off without GT. GT can copy all the other mod's code he wants (legally speaking) and can use that to generate his own style of mod pack, but I think it's better off for that to be separate.
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As far as I am aware, GregTech changes
- A lot of IC², and as an indirect result, anything that uses IC²
- BuildCraft quarry recipe
- Forestry bronze output
- Log -> planks and planks -> sticks recipes, if and only if they use oredict logs/planks with a specific naming convention
- At one time, and disabled by default, had an alternate recipe for RP2 block breakers (which used purely vanilla inputs, so it is very easy to do even without ever downloading RP2).
- Ingot/gem <-> block recipes, if configured to do so
If the block, log, quarry, and bronze changes are disabled, then GregTech only alters a few vanilla recipes (also configurable), IC² (somewhat or entirely configurable), and mods that use IC² components and machines. Unless someone can point out anything else that GregTech changes? (other than mods like Modular Powersuits that add their own GregTech-based recipes)
Also, you might be interested that GregTech allows you to adjust the default item despawn time, which could even be a *buff* (vanilla default is 5 minutes. In the GregTech config, you can easily set that to any number of ticks. Try an hour, and see how it alters the gameplay)
- A lot of IC², and as an indirect result, anything that uses IC²
- BuildCraft quarry recipe
- Forestry bronze output
- Log -> planks and planks -> sticks recipes, if and only if they use oredict logs/planks with a specific naming convention
- At one time, and disabled by default, had an alternate recipe for RP2 block breakers (which used purely vanilla inputs, so it is very easy to do even without ever downloading RP2).
- Ingot/gem <-> block recipes, if configured to do so
If the block, log, quarry, and bronze changes are disabled, then GregTech only alters a few vanilla recipes (also configurable), IC² (somewhat or entirely configurable), and mods that use IC² components and machines. Unless someone can point out anything else that GregTech changes? (other than mods like Modular Powersuits that add their own GregTech-based recipes)
Also, you might be interested that GregTech allows you to adjust the default item despawn time, which could even be a *buff* (vanilla default is 5 minutes. In the GregTech config, you can easily set that to any number of ticks. Try an hour, and see how it alters the gameplay)
Can we not turn this into a witchhunt to figure out which modders dared to speak out against Greg?
The problem with GregTech is that it meddles with other people's mods in ways that the mods weren't designed to accommodate. This can lead to all sorts of technical problems and some mod authors just don't want to deal with the hassle of addressing glitches that come from people messing with their mods in ways they weren't designed for.
It's basically the equivalent of putting "Caution: Contents may be hot" on a coffee cup to avoid people suing them when they try pouring coffee on their crotch. The coffee wasn't designed for that and you have better things to do than try and make "Unburning Coffee" for people who don't understand how to handle it.
The problem with GregTech is that it meddles with other people's mods in ways that the mods weren't designed to accommodate. This can lead to all sorts of technical problems and some mod authors just don't want to deal with the hassle of addressing glitches that come from people messing with their mods in ways they weren't designed for.
It's basically the equivalent of putting "Caution: Contents may be hot" on a coffee cup to avoid people suing them when they try pouring coffee on their crotch. The coffee wasn't designed for that and you have better things to do than try and make "Unburning Coffee" for people who don't understand how to handle it.
GT f***s with other mods and also vanilla too. And those are on by default.
Also, the attitude of "I can do whatever I want to other mods, but hell I'll introduce a crash code if other modders dare to modify stuffs I did." makes me sick, as with his defenders.
Sent from my GT-N8020 using Tapatalk
Also, the attitude of "I can do whatever I want to other mods, but hell I'll introduce a crash code if other modders dare to modify stuffs I did." makes me sick, as with his defenders.
Sent from my GT-N8020 using Tapatalk
I don't see why people complain so much about GregTech. EVERYTHING that he changes in other mods is in a config file. Don't like the quarry requiring a diamond mining drill? There's a config for that. Don't like that the iron pickaxe needs iron plates? There's a config for that. Don't like that the stone tool durability is smaller? There's a config for that. He adds in GREAT compatibility between mods such as inventory unification, which as always is included in the config to turn it off or customize it.
I agree that it's a little annoying to do stuff to get steel hulls like using the bronze age machines, but it's well worth it. He's a VERY good mod developer with great skill and talent.
I agree that it's a little annoying to do stuff to get steel hulls like using the bronze age machines, but it's well worth it. He's a VERY good mod developer with great skill and talent.
Vanilla, yes... but all mods mod vanilla. Quarries yes, and it's configurable. IC2, yes.
If your 1.5 GT experience is from the Unhinged pack, you might think it messes with other mods, but the fact is, those mods have built-in config settings designed to bring them in line with GT.
I'd like to thank Power Crystals, King Lemming, and their teams for going out of their way to promote inter-modder cooperation.
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