So, Thaumcraft 4.2 node bullying

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GreenZombie

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Jul 29, 2019
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I've done a lot of messing around with node merging in the last couple of weeks (been playing a lot of Mage Quest and Regrowth) and I've found a couple of idiosyncrasies with the process.

First off, the closer nodes are to each other, the more often they interact. Two nodes two spaces away from each other will interact more often than two nodes at maximum distance from each other. Secondly, it appears that the bully node can gain a point of an aspect without draining that point from the donor node. I'm not exactly positive how this works, but I believe it's draining the bonus aspects that are granted by placing crystal clusters around the donor node.

I like to use the 7x7 pattern lay out (5 nodes, with the bully in the center) combined with Automagy to drain all of the aspect points from the donors.

What I do is pretty simple: I put a remote comparator on top of a vis reader. I set that vis reader to output "Any Low" of the nodes aspect. This will generate a signal from 15 (full) to 0 (empty). I then place a piece of dense red crystal between the vis reader and the node stabilizer. Since the node stabilizer will retract it's shield when a redstone signal is applied, I set the dense red crystal to block any strength signal except for the 15.

This means that if the node's lowest aspect is reading full strength it will pass through the dense red crystal and the signal will hit the stabilizer and the shield will go down allowing for it to be drained.

This process can take a VERY long time, but you will get every single point of vis from the donor nodes into the bully this way.

Observing hungry nodes, I suspect that:
1. Node events are probably based of the minecraft random tick mechanisim. So, node bullying and recharging can be accelerated with tick accelerators such as the Twilight Forest Tree of Time. I was testing this but that world got deleted accidentally :/ so I am not sure.
2. Each tick, a node has to choose what to do, recharge, bully (be bullied) or destroy terrain (if hungry). This means you could potentially slow down the rate of certain events by making other events available - i.e. draning a hungry/bully node might make it prefer to recharge.
3. Bully events are mediated by the bully node. There are several kinds of potential bully events that are all independent. A bully node can choose to (a) recharge an aspect that is not at 100%, (b) increase the max capacity of an aspect, (c) drain a point of an aspect from a victim node or (d) drain a point of max capacity from a victim node.
4. The chance of a bully event is not proportional to the number of nearby victim nodes, but it is inversely proportional to the nearness of the victim nodes. These two statements nominally seem to conflict so perhaps the bully node just adjusts its bully rate based on the closest victim. So, to maximise bullying you might want to make a 6x6x6 room, with the "center" node actually directly (diagonally) adjacent to a corner node.

I am not sure of these, they just form my current working hypothesis.
 

Yusunoha

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Where/how do I get this and how does it work?

I believe you can find sapling for these special twilight forest trees in those huge twilight oak trees.
some of the leaf balls of those huge twilight oaks have a small area inside them with chests and spawners.
 

ScottulusMaximus

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I believe you can find sapling for these special twilight forest trees in those huge twilight oak trees.
some of the leaf balls of those huge twilight oaks have a small area inside them with chests and spawners.

There's dungeons in those things!? Anyway been doing some research and it says it ONLY speeds up the growth of plants, however if this does speed up node bullying(need confirmation on this) then surely watering cans will work too?
 

GreenZombie

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There used to be mods that had devices that applied a general random tick speedup in their general vicinity. I believe the TF Tree of Time is one of those. This incidentally speeds up crop growth. Leaf decay. and other randomly triggered events.

The watering can, Thaumcraft lamp of growth etc. Sigil of green growth. All seem very focused on speeding up crop growth specifically so I don't think they would work on nodes.
 

ScottulusMaximus

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There used to be mods that had devices that applied a general random tick speedup in their general vicinity. I believe the TF Tree of Time is one of those. This incidentally speeds up crop growth. Leaf decay. and other randomly triggered events.

The watering can, Thaumcraft lamp of growth etc. Sigil of green growth. All seem very focused on speeding up crop growth specifically so I don't think they would work on nodes.

According to the wiki:

"The Timewood Clock speeds up the growth of nearby plants, but does not speed up any other blocks such as furnaces, nor accelerate the reproductive rate of mushrooms."

My kingdom for a timetorch!!!!
 
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Yusunoha

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There's dungeons in those things!? Anyway been doing some research and it says it ONLY speeds up the growth of plants, however if this does speed up node bullying(need confirmation on this) then surely watering cans will work too?

yup, some of them have very small dungeons in them. the reason many people don't realize this because the trees are so high that you most probably only realize there's small dungeons all the way up there if you've some form of flight
 

GreenZombie

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yup, some of them have very small dungeons in them. the reason many people don't realize this because the trees are so high that you most probably only realize there's small dungeons all the way up there if you've some form of flight

As someone who has spent some time in the Twilight Forest, leaf dungeons are pretty easy to spot if you are using a minimap mod as they form a distinctive 7x7 block of leaves.

I have tried searching for them without using flight, or minimaps as I felt that was, perhaps, cheating, but the effort reward ratio is them so damned low as its a real mission to climb up the centre of the tree, search around near the top looking for candidate leaf blobs, listen for spiders (each dungeon contains a poison spider spawner so once you are near them you can hear them), build out to find the actual dungeon (the branches at the top of the twilight oaks arn't really traversible), not fall down etc.

I gave up on that and just search for them using my TC flying harness.
 

Yusunoha

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As someone who has spent some time in the Twilight Forest, leaf dungeons are pretty easy to spot if you are using a minimap mod as they form a distinctive 7x7 block of leaves.

I have tried searching for them without using flight, or minimaps as I felt that was, perhaps, cheating, but the effort reward ratio is them so damned low as its a real mission to climb up the centre of the tree, search around near the top looking for candidate leaf blobs, listen for spiders (each dungeon contains a poison spider spawner so once you are near them you can hear them), build out to find the actual dungeon (the branches at the top of the twilight oaks arn't really traversible), not fall down etc.

I gave up on that and just search for them using my TC flying harness.

the way I used to look for them is to set the quality to fancy, so leaves are see-through. the reason why I do that because these small dungeons are inside small 3x3 room with wooden walls, so if you see a 3x3 platform through the leaves, you've found yourself a dungeon. it's still quite alot of work though to look for them. I kind of wish Twilight Forest would add a way of finding these dungeons easier, perhaps some kind of compass, or a visual indicator that a tree has small dungeons in them
 

Pyure

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Is the size of a node determined by its current aspects, or its maximum?

Specifically, if I have a node with 1/80 Ignis, and a node with 30/30 Ignis, who bullies whom?
 

Inaeo

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Is the size of a node determined by its current aspects, or its maximum?

Specifically, if I have a node with 1/80 Ignis, and a node with 30/30 Ignis, who bullies whom?

Max capacity is deemed the bully, but it will cease bulling until its actual value is higher than the victim node's.
 

Pyure

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Max capacity is deemed the bully, but it will cease bulling until its actual value is higher than the victim node's.
Oh that's very interesting.
Just so we're clear, you're saying "higher than the victim node's actual value."
Possessive apostrophe strongly implies such, just making sure.

This means that I'll slow down my bullying efforts if I'm continuously draining the bully for other wand work.
 

Inaeo

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Oh that's very interesting.
Just so we're clear, you're saying "higher than the victim node's actual value."
Possessive apostrophe strongly implies such, just making sure.

This means that I'll slow down my bullying efforts if I'm continuously draining the bully for other wand work.

So far as I have experienced, it is the max values which determines who bullies who, but actual values as to when the bullying can happen. I have yet to test if lowering both bully and victim to low levels will increase or decrease rate of growth, but generally speaking, using your bully to do wand work will indeed slow your progress (although it may buy time for victims to regen).
 
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GreenZombie

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Principally a bully node will only increase the capacity of an aspect if that aspect is fully charged. And it will not bully a node at all until its sum of aspects exceeds the victims current sum.

If you do plan on draining bully nodes you should have node stabilizers to protect the victims while the bully recharges otherwise they will loose capacity while the bully has no chance to gain
 
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Pyure

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Principally a bully node will only increase the capacity of an aspect if that aspect is fully charged. And it will not bully a node at all until its sum of aspects exceeds the victims current sum.
Amusingly it occurs to me that I liked a post of yours yesterday on the topic of node bullying...from 2014.
 

ScottulusMaximus

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Seriously guys, with our collective brain power we must be able to find a way to speed this up. I play SSP, it's been over a week with me running the world as often as I can and starting with a 120 Terra node I have between 28 and 45 of the other primals.

EDIT: screw it, I do not worship the RNGeesus! A Time Torch replacement mod:
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forum...5-sci4mes-mods-scimclib-torcherino-positronic
 
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rdemay91

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Would the torcherino mod actually help with the bullying process? I don't know how nodes determine what to do each tick but if its based on random ticks then you could make a energized node have millions of CV/tick. Probably not that high but yea insane fast.