So, Thaumcraft 4.2 node bullying

[malicious_bloke]

Basically, this is the first playthrough in 1.7.10 where i've got far enough with Thaumcraft to start capturing nodes.

I've heard that bigger nodes now grab vis from smaller ones.

Now, is this a bad thing? Do I lose vis overall if this happens?

If not, great, if so, is it a range based thing I can manage by spacing captive nodes out a bit?

Any help gratefully received

 

[Pyure]

I'm watching this thread to learn some TC 4.2 idiosyncrasies myself, since I'm just picking up the mod for the first time myself.

 

[loboca]

For Bullying, the larger node absorbs from smaller nodes, and there is a 1/x chance of the larger node permanently adding 1 point of an aspect to itself (where x is the larger nodes current # of points that node has of that aspect).

The best chance to increase aspects and points in a large node, is to space nodes around the Larger node you chose to make your master node. That way, as the larger node bullys the smaller nodes, the smaller nodes have a chance to recover that point that was taken from it.

The optimal layout for nodes that I have seen is in this post, a 7x7x7 cube, and used it myself quite well. That thread has alot of info in it as well. Also, this one.

 

[Kotaro]

Bullying is pretty useful if you're trying to create a node for centivis. A larger node will eat a bigger one, but it doesn't seem like it's a 1 for 1 point. Also, the smaller nodes will eventually completely disappear.

It's also not the end of the world if you end up putting two smaller nodes close together as long as the larger node isn't surpassed by one of the smaller ones. It'll just take longer and you'll lose some aspects in the process. Just not as efficient, I think.

 

[CuriousKey]

Would this mean that a good goal would be to create one super-node with this system to fulfill all your needs, rather than having a group of them?

 

[MrZwij]

Anecdotally, it seems that the farther the nodes are away from each other, the slower they work. This is good in that it gives the bullied node a chance to recover, but not so good if you're not extremely patient. If you're setting up a 7x7x7 cube, I'd try to make sure you use the full 8 spots that are available. I've been growing a terra node from 55-ish - it's feeding off two other Terra nodes (a 40 and a 60) and has taken RL days and days to get to 71. By comparison, I happened to come across two nodes with Perfodio before I knew much about this process. I put them each 2 blocks away from the "boss" node. In roughly the same amount of time, they took that node from 0 to 95 Perfodio, even as they occasionally interacted with each other.

The best practice IMO is to put the bullied nodes into Node Stabilizers and protect them regularly to let them recharge. Automagy has the Vis Reader, which is invaluable for this. Combine it with a Remote Comparator, a Crystalline Eye and some Dense Redcrystal (optional) and it will read the state of your node. When it dips below a certain level it will turn on the stabilizer so it can revive itself.

 

[Kotaro]

Would this mean that a good goal would be to create one super-node with this system to fulfill all your needs, rather than having a group of them?

I made one super node for converting it to an energized node, which gives centivis. I also have a group of nodes for a wand recharge station each with a stabilizer so they don't bully each other. You can go with one super node for everything, but you currently can't charge staves using the CV wand charger.

 

[loboca]

Would this mean that a good goal would be to create one super-node with this system to fulfill all your needs, rather than having a group of them?

There can be two needs. A bunch of nodes to use for a wand stand, or centi-vis nodes for powering machines.

As far as one super node, vs multiple nodes, for a wand charging stand, I would think multiple nodes would be better, cause they will recharge faster on their own. You could have 2 50+ vis nodes of each type, and that would probably work better / recharge faster than one large, multi-vis node.

For a centi-vis node, one large node with all of the aspects is good for wand charging (like the 1000vis Ichor wand). I also use single aspect energized nodes for specific purposes, like powering the centrifuge.

 

[CuriousKey]

I made one super node for converting it to an energized node, which gives centivis. I also have a group of nodes for a wand recharge station each with a stabilizer so they don't bully each other. You can go with one super node for everything, but you currently can't charge staves using the CV wand charger.

There can be two needs. A bunch of nodes to use for a wand stand, or centi-vis nodes for powering machines.

As far as one super node, vs multiple nodes, for a wand charging stand, I would think multiple nodes would be better, cause they will recharge faster on their own. You could have 2 50+ vis nodes of each type, and that would probably work better / recharge faster than one large, multi-vis node.

For a centi-vis node, one large node with all of the aspects is good for wand charging (like the 1000vis Ichor wand). I also use single aspect energized nodes for specific purposes, like powering the centrifuge.

Thanks guys. Ok so there are reasons to do it both ways when it comes centivis, but groups of nodes charge wands faster. That makes sense.

 

[GreenZombie]

Nodes that are separated by 3 or less blocks horizontally or vertically will bully each other. The range of a wand recharging pedestal is 8m so you can place 16 nodes in a flat 4x4 arrangement in range of a central wand recharger. If that isn't enough you can build that in 4 layers for 64 non conflicting nodes.

Wrt building a cv/t node: because your cv network will probably need to supply all 6 essential eventually it is important to try and prepare a node that when energized can supply all 6.

One way is to simply find a node with a complex essentia that can decompose into all or most base aspects and perhaps grow it a bit. I prefer to grow a base aspect only node.

The node being grown does not technically need to be large. With at least a capacity of 25vis in each aspect it will deliver 5cv/t which will power most purposes adeptly.

Bigger nodes are really just for show.

 

[Pyure]

Nodes that are separated by 3 or less blocks horizontally or vertically will bully each other. The range of a wand recharging pedestal is 8m so you can place 16 nodes in a flat 4x4 arrangement in range of a central wand recharger. If that isn't enough you can build that in 4 layers for 64 non conflicting nodes.

Wrt building a cv/t node: because your cv network will probably need to supply all 6 essential eventually it is important to try and prepare a node that when energized can supply all 6.

One way is to simply find a node with a complex essentia that can decompose into all or most base aspects and perhaps grow it a bit. I prefer to grow a base aspect only node.

The node being grown does not technically need to be large. With at least a capacity of 25vis in each aspect it will deliver 5cv/t which will power most purposes adeptly.

Bigger nodes are really just for show.

So much jargon and acronyms and complexity...

I'm starting to hate thaumcraft again. I should go back to gregtech

 

[MrZwij]

Wrt building a cv/t node: because your cv network will probably need to supply all 6 essential eventually it is important to try and prepare a node that when energized can supply all 6.

One way is to simply find a node with a complex essentia that can decompose into all or most base aspects and perhaps grow it a bit. I prefer to grow a base aspect only node.

My 95 Perfodio made my energized node at least 10 across the board (Perditio was 11), even though most of the base aspects would have been below that. I was expecting only 6 Ordo, for example. I'd highly recommend nurturing a compound aspect if you can get it - it seems to be additive.

The node being grown does not technically need to be large. With at least a capacity of 25vis in each aspect it will deliver 5cv/t which will power most purposes adeptly.

Bigger nodes are really just for show.

Is there a resource somewhere that shows how much cv/t things use?

 

[epidemia78]

I play thaumcraft a lot and I never bother with node bullying. Most sinister nodes have compound aspects that when energized boil down to the primals so its easy to get a node that has everything and one node is all you really need. The only good that will come of bullying nodes now is faster recharge times. Which is a fine vanity project as long as you have one functional "everything" node. If bullying works anything like feeding hungry nodes, then its faster if you first drain it with your wand before you start feeding it. It will end up charged up with even more than it started with. But yeah, hungry nodes are the awesome way to make a big node. Once its huge, you taint it somehow so it stops being hungry then you energize it.

 

[rouge_bare]

In my current playthough i were lucky enough to find a 33 strength fabrico node in the wilds. You can be sure i nabbed it for energisation .

If you can't find a good (humanous+) node or other node that has all 6 primals (for instance a cognito, aer, ordo node), or a hungry node to feed, combining a few nodes to get a node with all aspects could be worthwhile, but it is a lossy process.

 

[ParAdoX83]

getting a "super" node (>100 of each primal aspect), turning it into an energized node for centivus (cV) (rate is by squareroot; 100 vis = 10 cV for a normal node, if u have a pale one or even worse a fading node it will be less) will be overall faster for wand charging IF(!!) u need lots of vis, because

1. if u have lots of nodes close to each other you need node stabliilizers, otherwise they will keep on zapping each other, which will cut the nodes ability to regenerate by 50%
2. even if u use one big bright node with all aspects it will take the node quite some time to recharge all its aspects, and by a way slower rate than u can spent it (e.g. equal tradefocus for large scale building), whereas an energized node doesn't need to recharge

that said for late game: energized (super) node > bright super node > many nodes

(not taking into account other uses for nodes such a a node dynamo, that only runs on normal nodes)

of course this only goes for feeding hungry nodes. letting nodes zap each other would take forever

 

[GreenZombie]

getting a "super" node (>100 of each primal aspect), turning it into an energized node for centivus (cV) (rate is by squareroot; 100 vis = 10 cV for a normal node, if u have a pale one or even worse a fading node it will be less) will be overall faster for wand charging IF(!!) u need lots of vis, because

1. if u have lots of nodes close to each other you need node stabliilizers, otherwise they will keep on zapping each other, which will cut the nodes ability to regenerate by 50%
2. even if u use one big bright node with all aspects it will take the node quite some time to recharge all its aspects, and by a way slower rate than u can spent it (e.g. equal tradefocus for large scale building), whereas an energized node doesn't need to recharge

that said for late game: energized (super) node > bright super node > many nodes

(not taking into account other uses for nodes such a a node dynamo, that only runs on normal nodes)

of course this only goes for feeding hungry nodes. letting nodes zap each other would take forever

For wand recharging it is far more convenient and efficient to simply place the nodes out in a grid. You can fit 64 nodes around a wand recharge pedestal without any bullying. Assuming you have a 17x17x17 area to dedicate to wand recharge.

 

[ScottulusMaximus]

Echo the above sentiments, lotsa nodes on stabilisers for wand recharging and a super node for the centi-vis.

Be warned, bullying is really really slow with the 7x7x7 method. You can also just put a crap ton of nodes close by each other and hope for the best(great method if you have a teleposer and don't mind "cheating").

One more thing when energising a node a primal aspect is square rooted and rounded down to get it's centi-vis value, compound aspects give 100% of their primals. If you have primals and compounds, whatever will give the highest centi-vis is chosen.

For a super node this gives you 2 options:

1. 7x7x7 with big primal nodes and leave it a long time(intended use with "node in a jar")
2. Tons of compound nodes all piled around each other and see what happens("cheating" system with teleposers)

 

[malicious_bloke]

For wand recharging it is far more convenient and efficient to simply place the nodes out in a grid. You can fit 64 nodes around a wand recharge pedestal without any bullying. Assuming you have a 17x17x17 area to dedicate to wand recharge.

So to clarify, if I have 4 blocks horizontally between my nodes, they won't bully each other?

If so, I might start like that until I have enough tasty ones to start energizing.

 

[Yusunoha]

I wish there was a stabilizer that would actually prevent nodes from bullying others, this way it'd be more efficient to merging nodes.
you'd place the primal node in the center with a dominant stabilizer and the smaller nodes around it on recessive stabilizers. the smaller nodes can give vis to the dominant node, but they can't pull vis from other nearby nodes.

 

[ScottulusMaximus]

So to clarify, if I have 4 blocks horizontally between my nodes, they won't bully each other?

If so, I might start like that until I have enough tasty ones to start energizing.

5