Should some mods just stop being updated in packs?

[Bibble]

Forcing people to use a much more complex mod? Bad (remove TE = remove the easy mode. New people may not understand the harder mods such as RoC)
Forcing people to use a mod that is the same, but has a different power system with less support (not as many EU generating mods as there is RF)? Good... to an extent.

And I never said they shouldn't be public, I said removed from packs where they are made redundant/obsolete.
Let's take one of the more popular packs, Direwolf20. In there we have 2 massive mods that use RF for ore processing; Thermal Expansion and EnderIO. Now they can be powered from:
EnderIO generators, Thermal Expansion generators, Extra Utilities generators, Big Reactors generators, Buildcraft generators, PneumaticCraft generators.
Now IC2 has:
IC2 generators, PneumaticCraft generators.
And seeing as the mod's functionality is in other mods, which have more generation methods, people are going to go for the ones where generation is easier to unify. Obviously people could go RF -> Bar -> EU to use RF to power their IC2 machines, and not have to have 2 generator types. But in a pack like that, people want ease of use, not complex builds.

If we take a pack like Resurrection which has Gregtech in it. Then fine, I have no issues with IC2 being in there, (assuming it still utilizes IC2, I haven't played around with GT for 1.7 yet), because GT adds a lot of cool stuff, more than is in there with RF. And although the power generation options are limited to a few mods, you get a lot more bang for your buck.

With packs there should be a nice balance of what can produce the power type and what can use it. For example if we were to take DW20 and add in RotaryCraft, yes, there is only RoC that can produce the power type for its machines. But it adds so many machines that it outweighs its negatives. Whereas IC2, as a standalone mod - or with addons such as nuclear control/advanced machines, doesn't add anything extra to what mods such as TE and EIO add. And because those mods have a very wide variety of power gen methods, people are more likely to use those mods.

Why does it matter that a lot of people use the mod, to me? Because there are a lot of people who don't have terrabytes of storage space, or A* processors. They suffer from mod packs having mods that get little to no use whatsoever in some packs. And I know a few mb isn't much, but if they are like me and have 50+ packs installed on their PC, some which they may never touch, but may do so they keep them, then that storage space starts to build up. And as for processing power, 1 mod doesn't do a lot, but if it adds world gen, or has weird requirements to the mod (such as factorization's dropper - book thingy) then it could start to hinder that person playing.

TL;DR : I don't think the mods shouldn't be public. I don't think the mods are better/worse than others. I just feel that they are being added just because they can be added.

You see, everything you're talking about is highly subjective. You see IC2 as obsolete because of the energy system and ore-doubling machines. You mention nothing of crops (the closest thing to that in common use would be bees. Agricraft is good, but not in common use at the moment), or of the miner (which mines out only valuable ores, without mekanism, there's not a replacement for that), or of the nuclear reactor (big reactors is similar, but the IC2 version is vastly different in mechanics and functionality), or of any number of smaller items that IC2 adds that make it handy (scaffolding, CF spray/packs, toolboxes), whereas you've mentioned similar small items from other mods as a reason for not subjecting them to your cull.

What you're doing is saying "I don't like this, so other people should change". You want to alter a number of widely used packs because you don't like something. And you really can't see a problem with that.

Let's also give an honourable mention to you trying to get the FTB team to do something to the DW20 pack, of which they have no overriding control (DW20 controls what goes into and out of that one, unsurprisingly).

If there is a mod that is objectively negative to the pack (performance issues, crashing, exploits, etc.), then action should be considered.
If there is a mod that the majority of the community feel is wrong for the pack, then action should be considered.
If the pack creators feel that a mod is wrong for the pack, then action should be considered.

Your arguments meet none of these criteria. You are wanting other people to remove mods from their game because you don't use them.

The big problem here is that you genuinely don't seem to be able to see the problem with this.

 

[ljfa]

or of the miner (which mines out only valuable ores, without mekanism, there's not a replacement for that)

Honestly, the miner's range is too small to be of any use. And the digital miner is OP in my opinion. Quarries are kind of a middle ground since they don't mine just valuables.

scaffolding, CF spray/packs, toolboxes

Scaffolding can be useful but I personally never used it. CF spray I only use to hide wires. Too bad you can't color them to look like other blocks.
Regarding toolboxes, there are various mods that add backpacks.

 

[Bibble]

Honestly, the miner's range is too small to be of any use. And the digital miner is OP in my opinion. Quarries are kind of a middle ground since they don't mine just valuables.

The point I was making was that it is a mechanic that the mod adds that isn't added elsewhere. If you want auto-mining in your typical modpack, you're looking at an inventory full of cobble. I was making the point that, if you're going to "save" EnderIO because they've got a 20kRF cable, you can't simultaneously condemn another mod that adds unique gameplay aspects, whether or not you personally use them.

Scaffolding can be useful but I personally never used it. CF spray I only use to hide wires. Too bad you can't color them to look like other blocks.
Regarding toolboxes, there are various mods that add backpacks.

Are there any that allow you to rapidly switch between equipment presets in your hotbar (mining toolbox [pickaxe, shovel, torches], warriors toolbox [sword, bow, arrows, torches, pickaxe], engineers toolbox [wrench, meters, cable], apiarist toolbox [frames, beealyser, treealyser])? At what point do you define a mechanic as "unique" and "mod-saving"?

 

[Padfoote]

This discussion is going in circles at this point.

 

[Fraction2]

At least it's not going in squares.

 

[ljfa]

I wouldn't include a big mod just for some small features. For instance I made a custom pack where I would like to have the Miner's Backpack, but bees and all the other stuff Forestry adds is not really fitting in there. So I bite the bullet, not only because my PC isn't the greatest.

At what point do you define a mechanic as "unique" and "mod-saving"?

IC2's main mechanic is using generators to make power, using cables to transmit it, using batteries to store it, using machines to consume it.
What do the machines do? They produce certain things from other things. What they are producing is required to make higher tier machines.
And they can be used to get an efficiency bonus for ores, bones, blaze rods etc.

All that I wrote above Ender IO can do as well, with some minor differences. You can't sell me the entirety of IC2 for "side features" such as toolbloxes or crops.
And because EnderIO is superior in terms of ease of use, most people will prefer it before IC2. Thus IC2's main mechanic is redundant in the DW20 pack.
However that does not mean it is redundant in every pack.

tl;dr don't include mods just for side features

Are there any that allow you to rapidly switch between equipment presets in your hotbar (mining toolbox [pickaxe, shovel, torches], warriors toolbox [sword, bow, arrows, torches, pickaxe], engineers toolbox [wrench, meters, cable], apiarist toolbox [frames, beealyser, treealyser])?

Oh lol I didn't know the toolbox can do this. I assumed it was nothing more than a fancy backpack and a crafting component for the metal former.

 

[ljfa]

By the way, the reworded OP says:

Some of the mods I am on about include Factorization, and IC2-exp. I am not going to make this a rant thread about why we don't need these mod in every pack anymore, I am sure that, if you wanted to, you could find my many rants on mods such as these.

Note how it says "every" and not "any".

 

[McJty]

One other reason that I like it that there are many mods doing essentially the same is that I don't have to do the same thing every time that I start a new world. Once I did ore doubling with TE. Then I did it with Mekanism. I also use RotaryCraft. I have done ore doubling with Tinkers Construct and in my latest world with EnderIO. That's what makes sure I'm going to continue playing Minecraft for a little while. I haven't tried ore doubling with IC2/Gregtech yet so that's on my todo for the future.

Ore doubling is just an example. I like being able to do various things differently. Not all those ways are easy. RotaryCraft and Mekanism ore processing isn't as easy as EnderIO and TE for example. But that's part of the challenge for me.

 

[jordsta95]

You see, everything you're talking about is highly subjective. You see IC2 as obsolete because of the energy system and ore-doubling machines. You mention nothing of crops (the closest thing to that in common use would be bees. Agricraft is good, but not in common use at the moment), or of the miner (which mines out only valuable ores, without mekanism, there's not a replacement for that), or of the nuclear reactor (big reactors is similar, but the IC2 version is vastly different in mechanics and functionality), or of any number of smaller items that IC2 adds that make it handy (scaffolding, CF spray/packs, toolboxes), whereas you've mentioned similar small items from other mods as a reason for not subjecting them to your cull.

What you're doing is saying "I don't like this, so other people should change". You want to alter a number of widely used packs because you don't like something. And you really can't see a problem with that.

Let's also give an honourable mention to you trying to get the FTB team to do something to the DW20 pack, of which they have no overriding control (DW20 controls what goes into and out of that one, unsurprisingly).

If there is a mod that is objectively negative to the pack (performance issues, crashing, exploits, etc.), then action should be considered.
If there is a mod that the majority of the community feel is wrong for the pack, then action should be considered.
If the pack creators feel that a mod is wrong for the pack, then action should be considered.

Your arguments meet none of these criteria. You are wanting other people to remove mods from their game because you don't use them.

The big problem here is that you genuinely don't seem to be able to see the problem with this.

I never said I was trying to get the FTB team to altar the DW20 pack. I would never go out of my way to FORCE ANYONE to change their pack. I would ADVISE people, if I saw it fit, but only if I knew them, knew the pack, and knew how (un)popular certain mods were with the players.
Yes, I don't like these mods in a general term. But does that mean I don't think they are good? No. As I said in the OP, I don't think the mods are bad, I just feel that in SOME packs, NOT ALL, they should be dropped. Maybe not now, when 1.8 hits, if these mods do update, I think some pack devs SHOULD consider which mods get to stay and which shouldn't.

Obviously these are my opinions. And mine alone. I am not trying to say that "Oh, I don't like IC2. NO ONE SHALL LIKE IC2" What I am saying is "IC2 isn't something that should just be added for the sake of it" because most mods replicate the key features that people (used to) download IC2 for (don't know how true this case is anymore:
Tools with no durability, only power - Tinker's Construct, which is more diverse in the sense you can have varying power levels depending on the tool's level.
Scaffolding - Extra Utilities adds vine scaffolding. A little harder to get your hands on vines over sticks, I'll give you that, but it is still a feature in another mod
CF Spray - I remember this being a PITA... people filled my house with the stuff. I was not a happy Jordan that day >_> But I never saw the point in it
Ore Doubling - *sarcastic shouting* I'VE COVERED THIS TOPIC BEFORE!
Faster furnaces - I'll give it that. I don't know of any furnace that is as good as the induction furnace... can't remember if that is IC2 or Advanced Machines though
Toolboxes? - I have never heard of these, but lfja says they are backpacks... tinkers, extra utilities and a butt load of other mods add different backpack/bag type things

 

[ScorpioOld]

I really appreciate mod creators effort. I am grateful to all of them for making moded minecraft possible. They spend their free time time and then give it to us for free.

Mod creators, Thank you very much. Please do not listen to trolls who did not create anything in their entire life.

 

[jordsta95]

I really appropriate mod creators effort. I am grateful to all of them for making moded minecraft possible. They spend their free time time and then give it to us for free.
Mod creators, Thank you very much. Please do not listen to trolls who did not create anything in their entire life.

I don't know what you mean for 3 reasons:
1) I never said I didn't appreciate their work
2) I am grateful for what they have done, a lot of the mods I don't like inspired mods I do like.
3) I have created stuff

Oh, and 4, I'm not a troll :3

 

[Padfoote]

I really appropriate mod creators effort. I am grateful to all of them for making moded minecraft possible. They spend their free time time and then give it to us for free.
Mod creators, Thank you very much. Please do not listen to trolls who did not create anything in their entire life.

I fail to see how that relates to the OP in any way.

 

[ljfa]

I really appropriate mod creators effort. I am grateful to all of them for making moded minecraft possible. They spend their free time time and then give it to us for free.
Mod creators, Thank you very much. Please do not listen to trolls who did not create anything in their entire life.

>implying that modpack creators do not spend any effort

 

[Beeze23]

Let's take one of the more popular packs, Direwolf20.

But in a pack like that, people want ease of use, not complex builds.

I disagree.

Part of the fun of "kitchen sink" packs is combining mods in a rube goldbergesque way.

What you see as "redundancy" I see as "having more options available." Being railroaded into using a single set of mods for a given purpose by a modpack wouldn't be nearly as entertaining.

 

[ljfa]

Then again, how often have you seen some Factorization or IC2 stuff being part of a Rube Goldberg machine?
Other than for just smelting or stuff that other mods can do as well

 

[Reika]

in SSP...disable the freakin mod, it isn't that hard

Too many people react with "But changing mods is so hard, that's why I use modpacks!".

 

[ljfa]

But changing mods is so hard

And you of all people had to write that

 

[jordsta95]

Too many people react with "But changing mods is so hard, that's why I use modpacks!".

Come on Reika, we all know that pressing about 3 buttons on the launcher is a HELL of a lot of work

 

[Reika]

And you of all people had to write that

By changing mods I mean adding or removing them. Too many people do argue that modpacks should ship as they want it, because to them, using a modpack means that they are entitled to exert absolutely zero effort. These are the same people who whine about config defaults differing from their tastes.

And to make absolutely sure my intention is clear:
People like that are lazy and/or stupid, and they and their wishes are not worth your time.

TL;DR: I do not like lazy people.

 

[mcalpha]

Scaffolding can be useful but I personally never used it. CF spray I only use to hide wires. Too bad you can't color them to look like other blocks.

Yes you can, with the Obscurator.