Should some mods just stop being updated in packs?

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jordsta95

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This thread has been edited from what it originally was, as the wording was very poor
Hey guys, so if you have seen me around on the forums you know I am very vocal about some mods and their insistence to keep been put in mod packs, even though they are "useless" nowadays.
Some of the mods I am on about include Factorization, and IC2-exp. I am not going to make this a rant thread about why we don't need these mod in every pack anymore, I am sure that, if you wanted to, you could find my many rants on mods such as these.
But I will say the following just to carry forward this discussion...
I don't think these mods have a place in most mod packs any more, Fz moreso than IC2-exp. because they are made obsolete by much "better" mods that do a lot more. For example, Fz's main selling point was it's barrels, JABBA has much better barrels, that look so much nicer, and then almost everything else in Fz was made obsolete by other mods in 1.6/1.7. As for IC2-exp. it should be called IC3 because of how much it has changed since it became IC2-exp., but also because it drags out the ore processing process whereas other mods try to make it quick and easy... also EU, which I just have a personal biased against, especially if the pack has a massive bias towards RF generation, and most people convert RF-EU, which defeats the object really.
I was just wondering what you think of mods like these, of course feel free to name your own, start a discussion about why these mods should stay in certain packs, etc.


Just as a side note, I am not saying these mods are bad in any way, I just feel they are no longer relevant in most packs due to the other mods that are out there, and as most of us play with these other mods then they are becoming less and less used, or at least from what I have seen.
 
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McJty

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but also because it drags out the ore processing process whereas other mods try to make it quick and easy...
Not everyone wants 'quick and easy'. I personally like a challenge. I haven 't yet played a lot with IC2 and gregtech but I'm planning to do that as I don't want my worlds to become boring soon. The harder the mods I put in a modpack the longer I tend to play with it. If it is too easy I get bored.
 

jordsta95

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Not everyone wants 'quick and easy'. I personally like a challenge. I haven 't yet played a lot with IC2 and gregtech but I'm planning to do that as I don't want my worlds to become boring soon. The harder the mods I put in a modpack the longer I tend to play with it. If it is too easy I get bored.
I agree, but when IC2-exp. is almost at a stage where Gregtech was in 1.4 (without all the cool machines and stuff) in terms of difficulty, it seems a bit pointless to me. If I wanted hard IC2, I would add Gregtech, if not, then no Gregtech. But now...
 

Plainy

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Quick and Easy all the way I really wouldn't miss IC2 since I never have used it mainly because of a whole diffrent power system that I am used to.
+ I thought I would be needing IC2 to charge my Modular Power suit... nope capacitor bank from ender IO does the job.
IC2 is just being useless now if you ask me and it definitely doesn't look as fun as TE in terms of coloring like all the machines are just plain white with TE you can at least color it a little and has a color from its own.
 

yotus

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When I started playing modded minecraft, it was around 1.6.4 and I had seen a couple videos from previous versions where IC2 seemed a good starting point, so that's also how I started my own games at the beginning.

But, after watching updated let's plays and such, I discovered Thermal Expansion, EnderIO etc and since then, I never wanted to go IC2 again. IC2 machines and tools have so many more crafting steps in comparison to other mods, and for the basic machines, I largely prefer TE/EnderIO.

However, I will certainly get a IC2 induction furnace for quick smelting, and I'd also like to test the new IC2 nuclear reactors at some point.. when I'll have enough iron and a fully functional AE system to craft everything ;)

I guess there is a lot of features that are easier to get through other mods, and that's we people won't bother going IC2 anymore. But I think some stuff can still be fun (nukes, reactors).
 

ljfa

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but also because it drags out the ore processing process whereas other mods try to make it quick and easy
What about Mekanism? :p
You can still double ores with just a macerator and a furnace, but it won't give you all the bonuses.

I heard @asiekierka is rewriting Buildcraft. Let's see how this goes. Some parts of Buildcraft have certainly been obsoleted, especially by the Ender Quarry.
 

Maelstraz

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IC2 is slowly dying since the TE release. But TE itself didn't kill it: besides of machines upgrades, now we have Simply Jetpacks, Redstone Arsenal, Big Reactors, even Extra Utilities. We have goddamn EnderIO (which is pretty much stand-alone mod, like IC was a long time ago). Age of RF has come, EU can be buried in peace and left in hall of fame (if you will talk about GT, it can be fast enough switched to RF, because GT isn't about EU, it's about hardcore crafting/manufacturing).

Also:
(This part is my opinion, you probably will not agree with that)
Some mods is outdated by it inner structure.

I'm talking about multiparts and BC pipes. I personally never likes this (i NEVER likes RedPower).
I know, they are good. They are incredibly awesome (like AE2, dear god, ten out of ten, or Funky Locomotion Uberminer, hell yeah). But they are wrong, because they cannot be updated to MC v1.8 without a lot of work.

I know, new render mechanic is weird, but i think this principle of miniaturisation doesn't match soul of Minecraft - huge sandbox with huge pixels and huge castles/factories/etc. So we have broken pipes. Maybe we need new way of transportation? Or maybe we just need to improve good old minecarts (sounds like Railcraft Reborn, lol).

Time will show the right way.
 

jordsta95

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When I started playing modded minecraft, it was around 1.6.4 and I had seen a couple videos from previous versions where IC2 seemed a good starting point, so that's also how I started my own games at the beginning.

But, after watching updated let's plays and such, I discovered Thermal Expansion, EnderIO etc and since then, I never wanted to go IC2 again. IC2 machines and tools have so many more crafting steps in comparison to other mods, and for the basic machines, I largely prefer TE/EnderIO.

However, I will certainly get a IC2 induction furnace for quick smelting, and I'd also like to test the new IC2 nuclear reactors at some point.. when I'll have enough iron and a fully functional AE system to craft everything ;)

I guess there is a lot of features that are easier to get through other mods, and that's we people won't bother going IC2 anymore. But I think some stuff can still be fun (nukes, reactors).
The induction furnace is an add-on to IC2, not actually IC2... unless that changed...
What about Mekanism? :p
You can still double ores with just a macerator and a furnace, but it won't give you all the bonuses.

I heard @asiekierka is rewriting Buildcraft. Let's see how this goes. Some parts of Buildcraft have certainly been obsoleted, especially by the Ender Quarry.
Aisie has mainly been working on pipe logic, such as gates and stuff :p

IC2 is slowly dying since the TE release. But TE itself didn't kill it: besides of machines upgrades, now we have Simply Jetpacks, Redstone Arsenal, Big Reactors, even Extra Utilities. We have goddamn EnderIO (which is pretty much stand-alone mod, like IC was a long time ago). Age of RF has come, EU can be buried in peace and left in hall of fame (if you will talk about GT, it can be fast enough switched to RF, because GT isn't about EU, it's about hardcore crafting/manufacturing).

Also:
(This part is my opinion, you probably will not agree with that)
Some mods is outdated by it inner structure.

I'm talking about multiparts and BC pipes. I personally never likes this (i NEVER likes RedPower).
I know, they are good. They are incredibly awesome (like AE2, dear god, ten out of ten, or Funky Locomotion Uberminer, hell yeah). But they are wrong, because they cannot be updated to MC v1.8 without a lot of work.

I know, new render mechanic is weird, but i think this principle of miniaturisation doesn't match soul of Minecraft - huge sandbox with huge pixels and huge castles/factories/etc. So we have broken pipes. Maybe we need new way of transportation? Or maybe we just need to improve good old minecarts (sounds like Railcraft Reborn, lol).

Time will show the right way.
I never really tried Railcraft, hence why I created a pack with no way of automation other than railcraft, to try :p
 

ljfa

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The induction furnace is an add-on to IC2, not actually IC2... unless that changed...
It is not. The induction furnace was part of IC2 for as long as I remember.
Other mods have fast furnaces too, especially Thermal Expansion.

I never really tried Railcraft, hence why I created a pack with no way of automation other than railcraft, to try :p
Same. I swear I will make a rail system with signals and all the stuff at some point :D
 
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Bibble

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Fundamentally, you are looking at this from the wrong angle. Mods updates aren't mandated by the player, they're done by the dev, and the player is able to use the results. There my be times when player input is listened to, but it's not required. A lot of mods are run because it's something that the dev finds interesting, and they will continue to do it until they don't want to anymore.

If your question is "should mods no longer be included in FTB packs?", then the answer is yes, and that pruning cycle goes on already. If your question is actually "should mods stop updating?", then the answer is no. It's not your project, it's not your work, its not your decision. Or mine. If a mod is updated, and used by only the developer, that doesn't mean that it should be stopped because you view it as pointless.
 

ratchet freak

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The induction furnace is an add-on to IC2, not actually IC2... unless that changed...
induction is vanilla IC2 while the other advance machines were part of the (now defunct) addon advanced machines (inspired by the induction furnace)
 

jordsta95

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Fundamentally, you are looking at this from the wrong angle. Mods updates aren't mandated by the player, they're done by the dev, and the player is able to use the results. There my be times when player input is listened to, but it's not required. A lot of mods are run because it's something that the dev finds interesting, and they will continue to do it until they don't want to anymore.

If your question is "should mods no longer be included in FTB packs?", then the answer is yes, and that pruning cycle goes on already. If your question is actually "should mods stop updating?", then the answer is no. It's not your project, it's not your work, its not your decision. Or mine. If a mod is updated, and used by only the developer, that doesn't mean that it should be stopped because you view it as pointless.
I meant it in the sense of should mods stop being updated in packs/should they be removed from packs.
When 1.7 packs have more than 2 mods that do the same thing I start to think if mods are just being added for the sake of it. For example, a pack which has; Mekanism, TE, IC2, Hydraulicraft, Factorization and some other ore doubling mod. You start to question whether they are adding mods because they actually want all mods to be used, or whether they are adding them for the sake of it.
Let's take the Direwolf20 pack, and DW20 as a youtuber. He usually uses every mod in in his LPs. But I doubt we will see him use Factorization this time around, as last season he used Fz in the first 10 episodes for ore doubling, and then never touched it again until barrels... But he hasn't touched it for ore doubling, and he will use JABBA for barrels; Fz is a mod that doesn't need to be in the pack anymore... which means there is a mod which could be removed, which would in turn use less resources (albeit a small amount), and stop people like me ranting and moaning about a "dead" mod being in the pack.
 

ratchet freak

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@jordsta95 Fz still has servos

But I kinda think that DW20 is getting too rigid in how he uses mods, and too many people are following his example to rigidly

The ThCr crystallized essence block spits the crystallized essence into the world or adjacent inventory; he missed the second part and could have just put an interface next to it and all would have been collected, now all systems I see use some kind of item attractor (vacuum hopper/vacuum chest etc.) to collect the items when it's not necessary to do so.
 
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Yusunoha

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most people make mods because they want to, not because they have to
because of that, a mod is never unneeded... if a mod developer gets joy from making it, the mod is already worth making

yes, this even includes the most pointless and stupid mods, if there's already just one person who's enjoying it
 

McJty

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most people make mods because they want to, not because they have to
because of that, a mod is never unneeded... if a mod developer gets joy from making it, the mod is already worth making

yes, this even includes the most pointless and stupid mods, if there's already just one person who's enjoying it
This is true. I wouldn't make mods if I didn't enjoy it. But nevertheless, having more people using your mod helps for motivation :)
 

Wagon153

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I hate seeing threads like this. It implies some mods are better then others and have no place in the current state of Minecraft. All of which is untrue. Fine, you don't like IC2 and Factorization. But others enjoy IC2 and Factorization and would hate to see those mods dropped from packs. So my answer is no. As long as the mod is around, there will be somebody to enjoy it. Not everybody is tied to the whole Thermal Expansion/RF circlejerk.
 

Bibble

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I meant it in the sense of should mods stop being updated in packs/should they be removed from packs.
When 1.7 packs have more than 2 mods that do the same thing I start to think if mods are just being added for the sake of it. For example, a pack which has; Mekanism, TE, IC2, Hydraulicraft, Factorization and some other ore doubling mod. You start to question whether they are adding mods because they actually want all mods to be used, or whether they are adding them for the sake of it.
Let's take the Direwolf20 pack, and DW20 as a youtuber. He usually uses every mod in in his LPs. But I doubt we will see him use Factorization this time around, as last season he used Fz in the first 10 episodes for ore doubling, and then never touched it again until barrels... But he hasn't touched it for ore doubling, and he will use JABBA for barrels; Fz is a mod that doesn't need to be in the pack anymore... which means there is a mod which could be removed, which would in turn use less resources (albeit a small amount), and stop people like me ranting and moaning about a "dead" mod being in the pack.
So, out of interest, what exactly, are your requirements? If you're saying that if a mods mechanics are entirely duplicated in another mod (and presumably, doesn't have any installed add-ons that introduce otherwise unduplicated functionality), then I don't know of any mod that fits that description.

Taking your example of Factorisation, there aren't many mods that add ore multiplication at early game (cobblestone-level), but we'll discount that for now. There's solar boilers, which are hella good looking, but not especially functional, so we'll discount them for the moment. Servos I cant speak to, having not used them. Routers, they are fairly novel, single block devices to transport items over a range of machines?

Are you saying that if a mod adds a single element of functionality that is elsewhere, then it should be scrapped? Because, taking the base mod as TE (for no reason other than arbitrariness), and mechanic as ore multiplication, you then take out IC2 (with it's interesting crafting and Reactor mechanics), thaumcraft (because, with the mass amount of things included, you also have the alchemical ore cluster manufacturing and infernal furnace), rotarycraft (which I am reliably informed has interesting mechanics, but I've never gotten up the patience for it yet), and a swathe of others, simply because part of their functionality impinges on something else.

That then leaves you with, essentially, the pack makers dictating to you how you should build your systems (You use TE for duplication, and Big Reactors for large scale power, frame machines for mining, and a large AE system for storage, and everyone has to do EXACTLY that!).

Personally, I'm of the opinion that a mod should be removed on the condition that it either:
  • Is to buggy, and impacting enjoyment.
  • Has a major exploitative weakness that breaks the game and is not intended by any developer.
  • Is no longer updated.
  • The team don't think it fits with the pack.
As has been said, time and again, you can weigh in your opinion on these matters, but the people that decide what it in each pack are not you and me.
 

jordsta95

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So, out of interest, what exactly, are your requirements? If you're saying that if a mods mechanics are entirely duplicated in another mod (and presumably, doesn't have any installed add-ons that introduce otherwise unduplicated functionality), then I don't know of any mod that fits that description.

Taking your example of Factorisation, there aren't many mods that add ore multiplication at early game (cobblestone-level), but we'll discount that for now. There's solar boilers, which are hella good looking, but not especially functional, so we'll discount them for the moment. Servos I cant speak to, having not used them. Routers, they are fairly novel, single block devices to transport items over a range of machines?

Are you saying that if a mod adds a single element of functionality that is elsewhere, then it should be scrapped? Because, taking the base mod as TE (for no reason other than arbitrariness), and mechanic as ore multiplication, you then take out IC2 (with it's interesting crafting and Reactor mechanics), thaumcraft (because, with the mass amount of things included, you also have the alchemical ore cluster manufacturing and infernal furnace), rotarycraft (which I am reliably informed has interesting mechanics, but I've never gotten up the patience for it yet), and a swathe of others, simply because part of their functionality impinges on something else.

That then leaves you with, essentially, the pack makers dictating to you how you should build your systems (You use TE for duplication, and Big Reactors for large scale power, frame machines for mining, and a large AE system for storage, and everyone has to do EXACTLY that!).

Personally, I'm of the opinion that a mod should be removed on the condition that it either:
  • Is to buggy, and impacting enjoyment.
  • Has a major exploitative weakness that breaks the game and is not intended by any developer.
  • Is no longer updated.
  • The team don't think it fits with the pack.
As has been said, time and again, you can weigh in your opinion on these matters, but the people that decide what it in each pack are not you and me.
Factorization is a mod I feel needs not be public anymore. It's ore duplication is pretty crap, IMO, the routers/servos aren't something I ever played with because Fz just never seemed like a mod anyone ever played with, and I didn't want to try and figure it out. But another gripe I have with Fz is charge, CHARGE! the most annoying power system there is IMO. When I last tried to use Fz I could barely get stuff to work, let alone produce power.
It's a good concept of a mod, done badly.

And I am not saying that mods with 1 common factor, i.e. ore duplication, should be removed. I am saying mods that are installed for the same features (IC2 and TE were always installed for the macerator/pulverizer and better furnaces - to my knowledge). I have never touched RoC just because I don't like certain things about the mod and the dev. But I wouldn't say it is a mod that should be removed from a pack because it ore doubles. Actually i would say TE would get removed, as RoC does all what TE does and more. But I wouldn't want to force people to use RoC.

It is hard to explain my point, but there are mods that I feel just get added because they can. And that shouldn't be a thing. A lot of people say "I look for packs with 100+ mods" and that's fine, I won't hold it against them. But if they make packs with 100+ mods that will not be used/are obsoleted by "better" mods (as in the mod has more interactivity with other mods, therefore people will use it more) then there is no point in adding it.
 

Bibble

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Factorization is a mod I feel needs not be public anymore. It's ore duplication is pretty crap, IMO, the routers/servos aren't something I ever played with because Fz just never seemed like a mod anyone ever played with, and I didn't want to try and figure it out. But another gripe I have with Fz is charge, CHARGE! the most annoying power system there is IMO. When I last tried to use Fz I could barely get stuff to work, let alone produce power.
It's a good concept of a mod, done badly.

And I am not saying that mods with 1 common factor, i.e. ore duplication, should be removed. I am saying mods that are installed for the same features (IC2 and TE were always installed for the macerator/pulverizer and better furnaces - to my knowledge). I have never touched RoC just because I don't like certain things about the mod and the dev. But I wouldn't say it is a mod that should be removed from a pack because it ore doubles. Actually i would say TE would get removed, as RoC does all what TE does and more. But I wouldn't want to force people to use RoC.

It is hard to explain my point, but there are mods that I feel just get added because they can. And that shouldn't be a thing. A lot of people say "I look for packs with 100+ mods" and that's fine, I won't hold it against them. But if they make packs with 100+ mods that will not be used/are obsoleted by "better" mods (as in the mod has more interactivity with other mods, therefore people will use it more) then there is no point in adding it.
See, I appreciate your point, but I don't agree with it. Variety is a good thing, and I'll often look into other mods just to see what the systems are like and how to put them together.

You are more than welcome to remove mods if they rile you (as factorisation so obviously has), and I've done the same (my criteria is usually obnoxious world-gen, though), but I don't think that your view should be the standard one for everyone. People have different interests, different biases, and play the game in different ways, and there is not, and should never be a problem with that, as long as they're not causing harm to others.
 

jordsta95

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See, I appreciate your point, but I don't agree with it. Variety is a good thing, and I'll often look into other mods just to see what the systems are like and how to put them together.

You are more than welcome to remove mods if they rile you (as factorisation so obviously has), and I've done the same (my criteria is usually obnoxious world-gen, though), but I don't think that your view should be the standard one for everyone. People have different interests, different biases, and play the game in different ways, and there is not, and should never be a problem with that, as long as they're not causing harm to others.
And that is why I asked for other people's opinions on the mods, and to suggest their own "no longer needed" mods