People rushing through all the tiers JUST to get the magnetostatics.[DOUBLEPOST=1405637329][/DOUBLEPOST]
I do agree however that being able to pump in lubricant from any side would be nice.
Rotary Craft Extractor Setup's
- Thread starter Jangofet54
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Are people still doing that? Upgrading to tier 3+ requires learning about really useful stuff you might not want to abandon after the upgrade.
You know, this won't actually inconvencience me all that much. I have a canola farm and harvest more of the stuff than i know what to do with. I have a storage module for the lubricant and ME conduits everywhere, so really, not a big matter in a technical sence. However, if I need an additional side to be connected this change may adversely affect aesthetics, and that hurts.
Also, the irony... this change will add a magnetostatic engine to my base. I use the higher tiers for fast on-demand processing because they have no warmup period and still output considerable power. Which is what I need to keep a steady supply of lubricant...
As for compactness, this will hurt regardless. Export buses can't coexist with other conduits and if I use pipes I'll need a buffer tank.
As for compactness, this will hurt regardless. Export buses can't coexist with other conduits and if I use pipes I'll need a buffer tank.
A depressingly large number of people only use RC for two things, the Extractor and bedrock tools, and most of them get those two things via magnetostatic abuse. As someone else said, "most RC tutorials begin with 'make a magnetostatic and set its output to X'".
If the only way you can enjoy RC is by skipping most of it, why are you playing it?
Yes, you can do this, but putting it in the back would be stupid.
Using magnetostatics not for the convenience of RF transport or their power capabilities but merely to try to avoid the need for things like gearboxes, so that they can just pick the power they want and not have to actually think about their builds.
If you think the tiering complaints are bad, you should have seen when I dealt the first nerf, cutting the max power from 134MW to 4MW and locking the torque at 2048 (it was previously controllable). People went ballistic due to the fact you could not just plop-and-play RC.
I honestly think that the plug-and-play impossible-to-do-wrong style of RF has made a large number of people lazy, to the point where they resent even having to calculate things like power distribution, wanting instead a literal "as long as everything is connected, it works" design. Speaking personally, I would take that level of handholding as something of an insult, as it to me implies the creator thinks that I am too stupid to get by otherwise.
I see it as being similar to when people complain to me that RC does not do what IC2(?) does and literally make it impossible to put items into slots where that item does nothing (like a dirt block in the macerator). To me, that says the developer thinks I am too stupid to realize I cannot grind dirt, and has to force my hand (and the accompanying implication that I will sit there trying one item after another with no comprehension of what I am doing).
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Rush through tiers? RF is the standard power mode these days, IC2's dying off because Dynamos and Big Reactors are easier to deal with and upgrade than Solar and less of a pain than Nuclear or other forms of energy creation. If I'm "end game" in RF terms but only just starting RotaryCraft, I shouldn't have to go through every single tier to get back to where I was progression-wise. If I'm swimming in diamonds, iron, steel, etc, I don't wanna sit there for a fucking hour magnetizing shit just so I can take 1 step towards being -able- to do what I want to do. I have no interest in Magnetizing things. I thought the whole fucking point of offering Engines that converted other mods' power WAS SO WE DIDNT HAVE TO GO THROUGH ALL THE HOOPS in the first fucking place. If I wanted to use Ethanol or Jet Fuel engines, sure, make me jump through your hoops Reika. But if I'm really progressed already and decide to toy around with RotaryCraft's options using my existing setup, why do I have to make EVERYTHING in your mod to get to that point? I have to make Lube, then magnetize shit, then Fractionate Jet Fuel, then pulse jet, go through multiple tiers of shafts and gearboxes, just to get to the single thing I was focused on and probably forgot about in the time it took just to get there.
If I only want to use part of a mod, that's my perogative. Not the opinions of forumgoers who think "their way" is the right way. Being able to skip tiers with sheer materials and/or progression in other mods is supposed to be an option. It's like being forced to use wood, then stone, then iron tools before you're "allowed" to use Diamond tools even if you have tons of diamonds and sticks just sitting there waiting to be used.
The only argument that is valid against my idea of fun vs yours is the Modmaker's. If Reika wants that, that's really all there is to it. But we're gonna voice our discontent if it starts going the same route GregTech did and ruined any semblance of "fun" in favor of being too realistic, restrictive, or "extra step"-heavy to get the same result you had before.
If I only want to use part of a mod, that's my perogative. Not the opinions of forumgoers who think "their way" is the right way. Being able to skip tiers with sheer materials and/or progression in other mods is supposed to be an option. It's like being forced to use wood, then stone, then iron tools before you're "allowed" to use Diamond tools even if you have tons of diamonds and sticks just sitting there waiting to be used.
The only argument that is valid against my idea of fun vs yours is the Modmaker's. If Reika wants that, that's really all there is to it. But we're gonna voice our discontent if it starts going the same route GregTech did and ruined any semblance of "fun" in favor of being too realistic, restrictive, or "extra step"-heavy to get the same result you had before.
For the people who do RotaryCraft correctly, all that design is what they find enjoyable. Some people want more than "I place blocks, wait some time, and get diamonds".
Also, for those reading this who read the posts on the RC suggestion thread earlier, this is the kind of discussion I was referring to.
RotaryCraft is built around the tiers. Skipping them leads to problems in understanding why and how the mod works (I've helped far too many people who don't understand the mod because they try to skip tiers). RotaryCraft is not a "standard" mod on terms of progression or what you get from it. If you dislike that, or certain aspects of it, then that's fine. Different people enjoy different things. But bashing a mod because of these different aspects is going too far. Comparing GT to RotaryCraft is also going a bit too far, since they're nothing alike. Yes, I like both mods, but for different reasons, and because they are nothing alike.
In the end, Reika's designing his mod the way he sees fit, and he's doing a damn good job at it.
The above here is why I use RotaryCraft. I use RotaryCraft because I enjoy the design and progression in the mod.
You handle it far better than some others I've seen in the same situation.
I don't want "I place blocks, wait, get diamonds" either though. The extractor's nice and I've been toying around trying to figure it out but it seems every update pushes me back from learning it and changes what I already knew. The big goal was the spawner controllers and playing with those, as well as the pulse jet to smelt old armor and horse armor down with, among a few other things. I've never liked engines that require alot of input, I avoided the steam ones(until yours, which make sense - put water in, heat it, and bam, steam, rather than burning coal, which even RF does), I avoided the Plantball-based ones ages ago, I avoided Nuclear because alot of upkeep just for power is a pain when there's more interesting things to do like build spawn contraptions or automate ore production. But when I have to sit for literally an hour to magnetize things just to to up a single tier that's nowhere near where I am "overall" it feels like I'm being, to re-use an analogy, forced to use Stone tools while I have Iron and Diamond laying around from time and effort previously spent.
seconded...the purpose of RotaryCraft is the progression/design elements
So your saying that because we had steel in the medieval period meant we had the knowledge to make the steam engine. In other words because you have stuff means you can make it without the knowledge required. Also, like I said RotaryCraft is about progressing and gaining the knowledge to make better builds/designs. Like @Padfoote's Extractor powered by an AC engine.
It sounds like you want something that is literally set-and-never-look-at-again. RC contains only one engine like this, the DC engine.
THIS.
I agree with that. The way that Rotarycraft, Reactorcraft and Electricraft are designed around real world physics is part of the reason these mods are so fun to play around with. Also the noises that the machines make are so realistic to what the actual machines make outside of minecraft. But some people just don't care about the design of the mod, they just care about the stuff that they are trying to get out of the mod. The thinking you have to do with this mod is what makes the mod fun, also the stuff that you can do with this mod makes it amazing as well.
There ARE more interesting things to do. Especially more interesting than yelling at a mod creator for making the pack the way he wants.
One of the reasons I use Reika's mods is because it is interesting. You have to balance your contraptions and actually think about how you're getting power from here to there and how you're going to distribute it. You have to think about how you're going to do what you want, instead of most mod's cut-out get some dynamos and some conduits.
This is Reika's mod. He can make it how he wants. He shouldn't have his view limited by the views of other people. He made this mod how he wanted, and did a damn good job at it too.
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There ARE more interesting things to do. Especially more interesting than yelling at a mod creator for making the pack the way he wants.
One of the reasons I use Reika's mods is because it is interesting. You have to balance your contraptions and actually think about how you're getting power from here to there and how you're going to distribute it. You have to think about how you're going to do what you want, instead of most mod's cut-out get some dynamos and some conduits.
This is Reika's mod. He can make it how he wants. He shouldn't have his view limited by the views of other people. He made this mod how he wanted, and did a damn good job at it too.
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Unfortunately there are always those people that will always complain about a mod no matter what you do to make them not complain about it.
Which is why you should never try to get rid of those complaints. That causes the mod quality to suffer and inevitably leads to burnout for the author. Plus, it's a sign you're doing something right.
I agree, Constructive criticism in anything helps the person or the project get better.
Users that complain that heavily usually do not understand game design.
That's depressing indeed. However - and I'm sure I'll get yelled at by those same people for this - I think the relative ease of achieving ore quintupling in RoC may be a contributing factor in this. Yes, the extractor is tricky to power efficiently, but compared to what you get out of it, it's actually super-easy. I appreciate the anti-grinding design philosophy evident in this, but it was bound to have unintended consequences. I'm sure if TE wasn't so easy to start with, its creators would have reason to complain that people just rush through the tech tree to get to the tesseract. The same with Mekanism and the digital miner. All of these are showcase features of their respective mods with unique capabilities which in other mods, if achievable at all, have significant drawbacks or are much harder to achieve. They all invite this kind of abuse. Also, I have to ask: am I abusing Mekanism if I don't use it to process ores, given that most of its machines are made for it?
I wonder if changing ore quintupling mechanics would improve things. Such as having the extractor take a grinder's output instead of the mined ores directly.
Not if you have EnderIO, whose fluid conduits can coexist with its power conduits in the same block space.
In that case, wasn't the tiering counterproductive? Instead of one engine locked at 2048 Nm, which would require gearboxes for most tasks, you now have several versions, one of which is likely to output the torque you need... also I don't think you could run an extractor with a V19 magnetostatic without a gearbox. But then, I never tried.
Perhaps TE made it too easy to achieve, but actually even IC2 has this kind of self-adaptability, where machines draw the power they need and not more without the need for the player to actively design power control mechanisms, and things work as long as everything is connected the right way. Getting there takes some design work and you need to understand the basics of the power system and put in a transformer upgrade here , a transformer block there and color some cables if need be, but it is achievable. In RotaryCraft it's either not achieveable, or so much harder that it doesn't make a difference, and for me personally, that's the biggest draw of magnetostatics engines. Here's my favorite example: to make a grinder only grind (i.e. use power) when something's in it, that takes extra design work and several blocks including redstone logic to control the engine and a method of detecting a machine's inventory state (which RotaryCraft inconveniently doesn't provide). A great majority of processing machines in modded minecraft have that capability built in. It's actually RotaryCraft which is exotic in this. Personally, I don't really mind the design work, but I do mind the additional space requirement.
LOL, I never noticed the difference. I actually occasionally try unintuitive things with machines, although I usually check NEI first these days, and either X can't go into a machine, then I know it's not made to process X, or it can go in and after powering up it's doing nothing, and then I also know. Also, yes, I see where you're coming from with this argument, but I do not feel insulted.
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I'm looking forward to using ElectriCraft for power transmission, which has the capability I find lacking in RoC, but the lack of any kind of cover/facade mechanic makes it only selectively useful, basically restricted to industrial-style facilities where having cables out in the open is not a concern.
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If you are using Mekanism only for the digital miner, you rather are, since then all you need is a Metallurgic infuser, some way of making diamond dust, and an osmium compressor.
That said, Mekanism's own page says that it "has no goal" and is made of "random content". That makes it much less "abusable" because it is a collection of unrelated things and as such selective use is more expected. Compare that with, say ThaumCraft. If you rush through the research - or worse yet, find some way to bypass it - just to get an item or two, and then ignore the rest of the mod, you are abusing it.
That just adds another step which is superfluous and undesirable.
No, because 2048Nm was too powerful, and could easily run most core machines. Reducing that further would have just meant it was completely useless at all times. By adding the tiering, you are forced to progress through the levels of RC. This then means that those willing to learn the mechanics actually do, and those who refuse and wanted easy-endgame never get that power in the first place.
I fail to see how the RC shaft/gearbox system is any different topologically than the IC2 wire/transformer system. Yes, wires are inherently omnidirectional, making placing easier, but that is not something I can avoid.
What capability? If all you want to read is an inventory/machine state, then use a vMC comparator. If you want a literal "magic control system", then that goes right back to the argument about wanting all the design work done for you.
Well, I actually try to avoid this kind of playstyle. That's why I'm retiring my single IC2 machine even though its Mek equivalent isn't quite as fast. However, I do not accept an obligation, moral or otherwise, to not play in this "abusive" way. If I use a set of machines of a mod rather than only one, it's either because it does what I want, it's otherwise useful or I like the style it does things. If I ask for support and get the answer "You circumvented the tech tree, your problem", that's of course your prerogative and since I understand your viewpoint, I wouldn't hold it against you, but yet again, I most emphatically reject any suggestion that I should play a certain way in my own worlds.
IC2 machines only draw power when they need it, as do TE's, Mekanism's, EnderIO's and pretty much any other tech mod's machines I know. RotaryCraft machines have no control over what power comes their way and it they don't need it, it's wasted, so that you have to design power control systems. I cannot see how this can be construed to be "no significant difference". Now I appreciate that RotaryCraft does things differently, but people act as if TE was unique (and as such, uniquely easy) in this. It is not. RotaryCraft is unique.