Recent Events Discussion (RED) Thread

[keybounce]

One thing, keybounce, don't we technically sue the wrapper, not the people who make the wrapper or the resources?

We sue the wrapper, but the people are not responsible -- only the pile of resources.

Case in point: A big bank is violating laws for 10 years, the justice department says that they are ready, willy, and actually able to go after the people -- something almost never done -- and suddenly, instead, the bank pays a fine that is just a few months worth of profit, and the bank's stock price goes up.

In theory, you might be able to go after the people in the worst of the abuses.
In practice, it happened this year, and we did not.

 

[VapourDrive]

RWTema has been welcomed by Team CoFH to help with the updating of Thermal Dynamics to 1.7.10; for all who don't know, this will basically fill the gap that is now the lack of conduits (which we all miss dearly.) I have a few thoughts on the matter and I am sure that others do as well.
Note: I will not truly be judging anything until tangible results are in (we'll see what happens), and my goal is not to throw anyone under any bus.
Apparently he is allowed to nerf the ducts as he pleases.
https://twitter.com/Extra_Utilities/status/523526056645779456
This somewhat worries me because I have a feeling he will help develop them with the idea that everyone will both be using ExU and TE at the same time and tier them as such... I don't use ExU.
I had similar fears when skyboy joined the team as I have similar qualms about the design of MFR but he turned out to be a good addition and I noticed no negative impact on design, hopefully the same will be the case with Tema.

 

[xyzzy75]

I'm not worried. I see no reason why RWTema would ignore the conventions established in the other Thermal Expansion mods to go off on a wild tangent with Thermal Dynamics.

 

[Arkandos]

I'm not worried. I see no reason why RWTema would ignore the conventions established in the other Thermal Expansion mods to go off on a wild tangent with Thermal Dynamics.

He seems to want to go in the direction of AE2 channels

 

[RenzosNips]

He seems to want to go in the direction of AE2 channels

Maybe not quite to the extent of AE2's channel system, but just so there's a little bit more to it than place down and walk away.

From Tema's Twitter.

I don't know how I feel about it. Pipes really should be place and walk away, after you configure them. But I said I wouldn't like AE2 channels, and I rather enjoy the change now, so... I'm gonna trust Tema's judgement on this.

 

[xyzzy75]

He seems to want to go in the direction of AE2 channels

I was thinking more in terms of crafting and materials conventions. As to *how* they work, the old TE pipes were pretty but broken or less than useful in many ways. I distinctly recall having to design rats' nests in order to be able to transfer enough energy using the highest tier conduits. I eventually switched to EnderIO to reduce the effects of the power limitations on TE conduits. And the item stuffing on itemducts drove me bananas.

I'm not a huge fan of the AE2 channels mechanic but only as a byproduct of the new crafting mechanic. Back in the day I had walls of logistics pipes autocrafters or automated crafting tables and was relieved to be able to reduce space requirements with the old AE. Now we're back to giant walls of assembly chambers all of which have to be managed by appropriate numbers of channels (unless you disable them in the config.) I rarely have walls of processing machines. If you just look at a single mod, like Thermal Expansion, I will have at most just two or three process duplications. For instance, I have a pulverizer for redstone to make cinnabar to induction smelt ferrous ore to get shiny ingots. I have another pulverizer to make dusts on demand. All my other ore goes through Mek elite factories doing 3x or an auto-fortune machine. I have 3x magma crucibles going to 3x transposers for energized glowstone, redstone, and resonant ender. So that's like 10 TE machines for all my TE processing, most of which are set up to auto-feed into each other, so no "item channels" required except for AE2 autocrafting. If we're doing "power channels" using conduit that might actually be useful to restrict the output to, say, your bank of RF-powered Forestry machines.

So it depends on the implementation. I'm not opposed to the idea in principle.

 

[trajing]

AE2 channels add some extra mechanics, and that's good, but it only fit because it was so high-tech. Pipes are low-tech. They should be set-and-forget, because they're low-level automation tools. BC pipes are how you want to make piping complex, not AE2 channels. If they're pipes, and not complicated tubes that are transferring data to make an exact replica of an item on the other end, then they should feel like pipes.

 

[schpeelah]

I can't possibly imagine fluiducts being more complicated than EnderIO glass conduits (which track amount of fluid per pipe, have differing transfer rates based on viscosity, and obey gravity) and Buildcraft pipes (track amount of fluid per pipe and you can have multiple fluids in one pipe).

Itemducts being more involved... Yet another Logistics Pipes/Project Red item transportation? EnderIO item conduits have channels, but that is an expansion of capabilities, not more difficulty getting them to work.

 

[xyzzy75]

Don't forget Mek's item painting system, which has its roots in the way RP used to work.

 

[Zenthon_127]

If I want advanced power transmission, I'll download RoC. If I want advanced pipes, I'll download Mek. I've said it before and I'll say it again: trying to change the niche an established mod fits in is a terrible idea, because all it does is create competition with another mod that's probably better in that niche and screw over all of your old users.

So yeah, hopefully Thermal Dynamics doesn't go too nuts, because it will actually be pretty bad more likely than not if it does due to competition with similar but better mods in that area. I really just hoped they don't get NERFED, because they already sucked.

 

[Dorque]

If I want advanced power transmission, I'll download RoC. If I want advanced pipes, I'll download Mek. I've said it before and I'll say it again: trying to change the niche an established mod fits in is a terrible idea, because all it does is create competition with another mod that's probably better in that niche and screw over all of your old users.

So yeah, hopefully Thermal Dynamics doesn't go too nuts, because it will actually be pretty bad more likely than not if it does due to competition with similar but better mods in that area.

Thankfully, Thermal Dynamics has had very firmly established rules since Newton.

Sent from my Refrigerator using Tapatalk

 

[Qazplm601]

just gonna put this here.
http://imgur.com/a/FyyJX (from a twitter thing)

 

[xyzzy75]

I liked skyboy's original tweet more.

I just found out that MFR's cables would require 50 gigabytes worth of JSONs in @MojangTeam's model format.

 

[SinisterBro :3]

50 gigs of cables, holy shit.

 

[Golrith]

Still say that mod scene should stick with 1.7.10, and put focus in trying to fix the issues in the base code. Some mods could get to 1.8, but more like the "simple" ones that don't need fancy blocks.

 

[Celestialphoenix]

See...I kept telling everyone that the updates aren't worth the damage, but would anyone listen? No, of course not, and now you're all f*****, so "haha...told you so"

 

[Antaioz]

continuing from news thread:

It's so you don't have to keep opening NEI. You can just have the recipe right there at all times.

Since when was pressing 'r' or clicking on an item tedious?
I'm sorry, but I still don't get it. So instead of going back to the item and pressing 'r', you want to exit the crafting table, dropping anything that got put in there, to look at the recipe on the wall? with no item names, only icons? what if two items look similar?

What's more, if the recipe doesn't change according to say, the last recipe viewed in NEI, only displaying one recipe and requiring it to be manually changed makes even less sense, to me anyway.
I don't think people craft any single item enough times to warrant a sign of a single recipe hanging over the crafting table, and if you're crafting anything over and over and over, you generally remember the recipe very quickly through muscle memory.

I can see it possibly being of some limited usefulness when you have someone who doesn't remember recipes easily, crafting 100s of the same item, or crafting chain over and over again.

Or perhaps, if you forget the item you needed for the crafting recipe, and the 'sign' automatically shows the last recipe viewed in NEI. essentially you go over to your storage looking for the item you're missing, and the 'sign' is on the wall near the storage. Still, when you're working in crafting, the last item you've searched for in NEI is hardly far away, unless you've accidentally cleared the search bar, and you only have to hit 'r', right there in the inventory you're looking at...

There's always the aesthetic value of putting recipes on the wall, which i'm sure someone can make look cool somewhere. And there's the "hell, why not!" reasoning, but if dmillerw is making the mod to fill some kind of gap in finding recipes and such, I don't think he's found any gap to fill.

 

[McJty]

One use for showing a recipe in game is for people doing mod spotlights. So when showing a mod you can demonstrate a wall of recipes to the viewers. You can also do this with itemframes of course but this is nicer.

 

[Antaioz]

One use for showing a recipe in game is for people doing mod spotlights. So when showing a mod you can demonstrate a wall of recipes to the viewers. You can also do this with itemframes of course but this is nicer.

I don't know, a wall of recipes, with no item names, no context, and no knowledge of the mod would be more confusing than helpful.
impressive maybe, but confusing.

 

[McJty]

I don't know, a wall of recipes, with no item names, no context, and no knowledge of the mod would be more confusing than helpful.
impressive maybe, but confusing.

I didn't say only that. But if you watch spotlights you often see that in that spotlight (as part of the explanation) the recipes are shown in itemframes. With this mod the recipes may be shown in a neater manner. That's all