Recent Events Discussion (RED) Thread

10paktimbits

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Jul 29, 2019
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We live in a place of drama.

And I have absolutely no idea why I wrote this or where I planned to go with it.

Seems we are all susceptible to getting caught up in events that are out of our control. After over-reading about where Minecraft is at and where it is going, and getting caught up in this myself, I'd like to throw this on the table:

Don't give up. Or get caught up. Focus on what's important: our love of an awesome game and the developers and fans that make it even better. The unknown obviously worries just about everyone, but we need to keep that focus or nothing that happens will matter.

Microsoft please make a press release and stop the community from poisoning itself. Please.
 
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jordsta95

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Jul 29, 2019
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Microsoft please make a press release and stop the community from poisoning itself. Please.
It's probably better that they don't. If Microsoft show that they aren't getting involved with Minecraft (by not publicly saying anything) then people will probably feel better than if they were to go "We are not going to do anything..." as people will go "THEY ARE LYING"
 
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KaosRitual

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Jul 29, 2019
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It's probably better that they don't. If Microsoft show that they aren't getting involved with Minecraft (by not publicly saying anything) then people will probably feel better than if they were to go "We are not going to do anything..." as people will go "THEY ARE LYING"
No matter what they do half of the community will probably flip out.
 

the_j485

King of the Wicked
Dec 19, 2012
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Look behind you
As has been said, all games have drama. We just need to stop what we're doing, think for a moment, and realise - does drama really matter? It does nothing productive, and only in extreme cases does it do anything seriously destructive, so I say we just roll with it and learn to act like it's nothing. And if we do that, in the end, it will be nothing.
 
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Celestialphoenix

Too Much Free Time
Nov 9, 2012
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Tartarus.. I mean at work. Same thing really.
At least if they say nothing a few of them might forget.

Oldest trick in the book.
Let the initial fuss die down- then it becomes old news;
-allowing you to do whatever you like while the majority willingly ignores it.
Anyone remember Joseph Kony? Does anyone think/care about him anymore? Wonder about Chernobyl or
Fukushima lately?
Same applies to Microsoft/Minecraft.
Act too soon and you'll cause drama- let the issue set and develop their trust before you slowly slip the knife into their back.​
 

jordsta95

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Jul 29, 2019
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Chernobyl's progressed to the point tourists go there, and jokes can be made about it, i.e. :

Q: Why should you wear lead pants in Ukraine?
A: Because otherwise Chernobyl fall off.
Because Cher-no-bul will fall off? (Where we live that is how we pronounce Chernobyl)
 
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Celestialphoenix

Too Much Free Time
Nov 9, 2012
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Tartarus.. I mean at work. Same thing really.
Because Cher-no-bul will fall off? (Where we live that is how we pronounce Chernobyl)

upload_2014-10-13_21-47-21.png
 

keybounce

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Jul 29, 2019
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First, 10P:

I have no support for a modder that decompiles your code, and then rebuilds it, without your permission.

But if someone were to re-implement it, from scratch, that's fine. They might do a better job; they might have different spawning rules, etc.

Out of curiosity, what are you protecting it from and how does your decision further that goal?

Microsoft could take the code, put it into Minecraft, and not give any reimbursement or credit for the action.

Mojang could have done that with Optifine, but did not -- they tried to reach an agreement, failed, and then Mojang did their own implementation of similar stuff. The EULA would have let Mojang just take it, but they did not. Mojang, under Notch/Jeb, has shown itself to be a "kind" corporation.

In reality, this just means that the board of directors made decisions about the resources of Mojang that were fair and just.

But the board of directors for microsoft is not concerned about things like that. Popular mods run the very real risk of being taken and put into the game, with no credit, payment, or recognition of any kind to the author.

Just imagine contributing for two years to something, only to find that it's -- surprise! -- now owned by a commercial corporation for their use.

(NB: I am 4 pages behind the thread front at this point -- guys, slow down!)
 

jaquadro

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Jul 29, 2019
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First, 10P:

I have no support for a modder that decompiles your code, and then rebuilds it, without your permission.

But if someone were to re-implement it, from scratch, that's fine. They might do a better job; they might have different spawning rules, etc.



Microsoft could take the code, put it into Minecraft, and not give any reimbursement or credit for the action.

Mojang could have done that with Optifine, but did not -- they tried to reach an agreement, failed, and then Mojang did their own implementation of similar stuff. The EULA would have let Mojang just take it, but they did not. Mojang, under Notch/Jeb, has shown itself to be a "kind" corporation.

In reality, this just means that the board of directors made decisions about the resources of Mojang that were fair and just.

But the board of directors for microsoft is not concerned about things like that. Popular mods run the very real risk of being taken and put into the game, with no credit, payment, or recognition of any kind to the author.

Just imagine contributing for two years to something, only to find that it's -- surprise! -- now owned by a commercial corporation for their use.

(NB: I am 4 pages behind the thread front at this point -- guys, slow down!)
Microsoft is a strongly "not invented here" company. The odds of them appropriating other modder's code just isn't high. They have a few historical instances of taking code, like the BSD network stack, but that's always the risk with BSD-style licenses.

Even then, the EULA only gives them your binary, unless you also happened to release your code under a compatible license. The EULA never took your copyright away.
 
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keybounce

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Jul 29, 2019
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Guess it doesn't matter now. I've degraded both myself and what maybe one day could have been a good mod.

Mistake made - absolutely. But only because I went about it the wrong way. I needed to pull the mod, as I said, for other reasons as well. As a consequence I've ruined my relationship with so many dedicated fans. I did this for them, not for me, and they are all left wondering wtf happened. I get that. I will never gain their trust again. I get that too.

My final reward for my effort is disgrace, but I'm not an ungrateful swine. I truly care about the community, and to be called that means the caller truly doesn't know me.

No.

Not "what maybe one day could have been a good mod" -- what today is a good mod.

"I needed to pull the mod, as I said, for other reasons as well." -- Then state so. The only "big mistake" was to have the thread not just locked, but still visible, but actually "deleted"; the rest of us cannot read it, and cannot understand what happened.

Get the mods to un-delete the thread.
Post in there a statement that you have some other, personal reason (or whatever) for removing it.
Decide if you want the mod to be distributable in the current form, but with no more planned updates, or outright not distributed at all.
And keep in mind: There are copies out there. People did download it. This is the internet -- right or wrong, some people will distribute copies without permission.

"I've ruined my relationship with so many dedicated fans. I did this for them, not for me, and they are all left wondering wtf happened." -- We are wondering wtf. So tell us. You did not ruin the relationship. Sour? Perhaps. Ruin? No. Doing nothing might result in ruin; stepping in to explain why it was pulled will not.

Will Microsoft commit a PR time bomb? Sadly, the odds are yes. (*). Do you want to say "Pulled, no one else may distribute", as a way of saying that even Microsoft cannot use it? Fine, but I have no idea if that'll work or not. Since you're not 1.8 compatible, it probably will be sufficient.

"My final reward for my effort is disgrace" -- Not in my eyes.

===

(*): A "corporation" is a legal wrapper around a pile of resources, and some people who have authority to use those resources without the consequences of their actions. As such, they tend to take actions without considering the repercussions -- their only legally required objective is to attempt to make money. In the USA, where most of Microsoft takes place, the people who make the decisions about what to do with those resources cannot even be held accountable for those decisions -- we've made the stupid decision that it is the resources that have decided to do something, and we only sue the resources, not the people.

The only point here is that someone will have the authority to try to make more money off of Minecraft, and they will see the idea of "lots of plants" -- there are a lot of mods that add plants now -- and see one mod that does it better than the rest, and an EULA that lets Microsoft do whatever with it. We have no control over that person, or even if it is a "vote" of two out of three on the board.

Odds are that someone will say "This will make things better". Even if there is a person in charge of preventing a PR nightmare, someone may suggest the idea to that person, who in turn says "Do it".
 

trajing

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Jul 29, 2019
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One thing, keybounce, don't we technically sue the wrapper, not the people who make the wrapper or the resources?
 

jaquadro

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Jul 29, 2019
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Yep, they're assembling an entire floor right now for "third party asset procurement". Thirty staff methodically sifting through through every distribution channel looking for their next DLC pack. Bonus points if they have to route it to another team for decompiling closed sources.

It ain't gonna happen. At best, you are going to see ideas originated by the mod community be recreated in the game. Maybe you can look forward to seeing those ideas in a Minecraft 2 DLC pack.

Microsoft is more than likely still trying to wrap their collective minds out of how they're going to manage Mojang and the remaining life of the current game.