RC/ReC/ElC/CC Policy Changes

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Pyure

Not Totally Useless
Aug 14, 2013
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I'm inclined to agree with RedBoss on the notion of closing the thread. Its become more of a mudflinging reddit forum by this point.

Everyone's stated their opinion, everyone's satisfied everyone else is wrong. Might as well move forward and start a new thread if/when something actually changes.
 

Pyure

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My random notes:
  • The modpack author should know how the mod functions, document changes, tell Reika what you changed, and don't do anything stupid. Those rules aren't hard to follow.
  • Reika might want to change his website/thread a bit. Save the wall of text for pack authors. Rewrite the license, 3 sentences is enough to say everything.
  • Reika can do whatever he wants, his mod. Permissions are privileges, modders aren't required to grant them.
  • Some people seem to be negative to a positive change. Why?
  • The weather is really nice today.

Or, you know, we could keep the thread open so that others can comment. You don't have to watch the thread if you don't want to.
So long as peeps aren't just rehashing the same comments over and over again, naturally.

What you posted is entirely reasonable, and a mirror image of the one half of the discussion, with the addition of polite weather discussion, which i don't believe has been introduced to the thread yet.
 
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RedBoss

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Or, you know, we could keep the thread open so that others can comment. You don't have to watch the thread if you don't want to.
I'm more than aware of my options thank you.

At the very least could we get just one Reika thread please? We have multiple threads running, including a suggestions threads. Its excessive. No other mod Dev is occupying that much forum real estate. Plus similar to the GT issues in the past, constraining those conversations to one thread was a diplomatic option. I propose that at the least so we can reduce the number of Reika related threads on the forums.
 
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Pyure

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Aug 14, 2013
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People can actually say the same things several times without it being a reason to lock the thread. I said what I think about the topic, because some people might be interested in my opinion.
I find your opinions very interesting :)

At the point the option was raised, people weren't just rehashing the same stuff, it was occasionally getting heated. If people are happily voting their preferences on a thing, that's fine, but when it starts transforming into a polarized GT/TiCO-esque shitfest its a different matter.

(We're not there yet)
 

ljfa

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Jul 29, 2019
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Some people seem to be negative to a positive change. Why?
Yes it is a positive change but only artificially. His trust towards people didn't change positively (not significantly) and you can read this between the lines of the OP, and he has good reasons for that. There are deeper problems being discussed tha
 

trajing

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Jul 29, 2019
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I started reading this thread a little under a week ago, and stopped.
I then proceeded to continue reading this thread today, and remembered why I stopped.
Reika is well within his rights to do this. It's his mod. Hey, he didn't even have to post this feedback thread (which is quickly becoming less feedback and more drama), but he did anyway. Although I've said this many times before, it's his IP, it's his choice on what to do with it, no matter what you think about his choice.
TBH, I'm curious why you're even arguing about it, as it's an improvement. Just one of those things about other people that I will never understand.
 

ljfa

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Reika is well within his rights to do this. It's his mod. Hey, he didn't even have to post this feedback thread (which is quickly becoming less feedback and more drama), but he did anyway. Although I've said this many times before, it's his IP, it's his choice on what to do with it, no matter what you think about his choice.
Well that's a killer argument. Of course he can do anything but that doesn't mean it makes sense or is a good idea.
 
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Reika

RotaryCraft Dev
FTB Mod Dev
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Well that's a killer argument. Of course he can do anything but that doesn't mean it makes sense or is a good idea.
And which is why I do not just say "my mod, my rules, take it or leave it", despite how many others in this thread and elsewhere paint it.

Its become more of a mudflinging reddit forum by this point.
How so?

People can actually say the same things several times without it being a reason to lock the thread.
Such as thinking their point has not been made clear (or has been ignored, something I do feel is common with mine).

I'm more than aware of my options thank you.
Then stop acting like you are forced to stay on the thread. If you see it as being useless to read or add to, leave, do not try to terminate it, especially so long as it A) remains within the rules and B) I, as the creator, still want it open.

At the very least could we get just one Reika thread please? We have multiple threads running, including a suggestions threads. Its excessive. No other mod Dev is occupying that much forum real estate. Plus similar to the GT issues in the past, constraining those conversations to one thread was a diplomatic option. I propose that at the least so we can reduce the number of Reika related threads on the forums.
First you complain when one thread's topic varies - even if it is all connected to the original point - then you want all my previous (and future) threads forced into one, where the topic will change wildly and daily, completely negating your first point, not to mention making discussion nearly impossible?

I create a new thread for each "issue", assuming some sufficient temporal separation, because that keeps it organized.

Also, you can't mention someone reporting you to the FBI and not tell the story! I mean the basics are probably 'reika stops thing he doesn't allow, internet people cry to police for some reason', but still.
I don't recall that story, but I may have missed it.
Basically, one day - about 6 months ago, in October - as I was coming home, there was a police car parked on the street in front of my house. Thinking it odd but otherwise insignificant, I ignored it, pulled into the driveway, and began walking towards the front door. At this point, two police officers exit the vehicle and approach me. I stop and turn to them, somewhat quizzical.

First, they asked me a few identity-confirming type of questions, "are you X", "do you Y", and so on. After confirming that, they moved on to...stranger questions. Questions like "is there anyone you feel the need to get even with", or "might you have any feelings that you need to "get back at the world"?". After a few minutes of basically "no, and I have no idea where that came from", they thanked me for my time and began to leave. As they were leaving, I asked "so what was this all about, anyways". After a moment of pause, I was told that they were not really supposed to mention it, and apologized.

So I went inside and continued my day as normal, until later, when @HeilMewTwo leaves a message on my profile - one that still remains - saying "yesterday somebody reported you to the FBI", and that he was going to show me but jaded had removed the post already. So I went to her, asking for a bit of clarification. According to her, someone claimed to have reported me to the FBI, saying I was "a danger to society".

This is where it clicked. Someone reported me as a potential terrorist or something, and after (presumably several) interdepartmental/international transfers, the local police here were sent to do a preliminary check. They got a fairly clear "false positive" result, so it stopped there.

Though the whole experience was not significantly negative, it shows to me that someone can have real-world consequences even without having my identity, something that deeply concerns me. But regarding why I mentioned it here, a false report like that is a crime that can receive jail time, so clearly whoever did it felt a sufficient drive to harass me (or, as he might have been imagining, especially if he watched too much TV, get me arrested without trial or something) that he was willing to risk a jail term.
 
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Padfoote

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So I went inside and continued my day as normal, until later, when @HeilMewTwo leaves a message on my profile - one that still remains - saying "yesterday somebody reported you to the FBI", and that he was going to show me but jaded had removed the post already. So I went to her, asking for a bit of clarification. According to her, someone claimed to have reported me to the FBI, saying I was "a danger to society".

Just in case anyone doesn't believe this, I did find the deleted post and it matches this story perfectly.
 
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TomeWyrm

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From my perspective (other than the recent debate with @Pyure, @Reika, and myself over mod cloning/copyright) it's been some people in support, some people in dissent, nearly all of whom kept this pretty impressively civil based on how anything touching Reika's drama topics anything honestly (sadly). We've had mod authors for and against, pack devs saying things like 'This is a good step in the right direction, though not far enough for me to use it', and a suggestion for another step in the direction of public presentation.

Admittedly that's not exactly on the original topic on the last bit, but they are all related to the essential issue of Reika and Community Relations.
 
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Pyure

Not Totally Useless
Aug 14, 2013
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From my perspective (other than the recent debate with @Pyure, @Reika, and myself over mod cloning/copyright) it's been some people in support, some people in dissent, nearly all of whom kept this pretty impressively civil based on how anything touching Reika's drama topics anything honestly (sadly).

You're right, that's fair. I think my perception was based mainly on frustration at the cyclical repetitive nature of the discussion at the time rather than any real mud being thrown about.
 

RavynousHunter

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Jul 29, 2019
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Honestly, I'm cool with the change. I didn't mind things as they were before...if I understand one thing, its wanting to have your creation maintain its internal integrity, but this will please more people, so categorical imperative and all that. I see nothing unreasonable with Reika's requests, as has been stated before, this is something anyone can handle in a couple of minutes, if they simply put forward a modicum of effort. Saying things like "well, what if Thermal Expansion or RFTools adopts this? The time adds up, maaaaaaaaaaaaan!" is a classic slippery slope fallacy. You are expecting others to follow in Reika's footsteps, even though its been demonstrably proven that he's pretty much flying solo. Is documenting changes really that hard? All you have to do is crack open Notepad, write a couple of things and, boom, done. Yeah, you have to understand what you're screwing with so you don't run the risk of accidentally hosing an entire mod, but that's been Reika's policy for a while, now. If you're not open to doing the legwork required to make a good pack, to actually understand the mods you're slamming together, then I have to ask, why, exactly, do you think you have what it takes to be a modpack author? Any moron can throw together five dozen random mods and call it a day. To actually make something worth playing, though, you've actually got to put forth some effort, and that means learning about the mods you plan on using. Again, the requests Reika makes are something anyone can fulfill. Will it take a little work? Yeah, but his stuff is worth it, because Reika makes quality shit.
 

RedBoss

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Then stop acting like you are forced to stay on the thread. If you see it as being useless to read or add to, leave, do not try to terminate it, especially so long as it A) remains within the rules and B) I, as the creator, still want it open.
I'm within my rights and voicing my opinion within guidelines. You're welcome to disagree with my opinions.
 

Reika

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I'm within my rights and voicing my opinion within guidelines. You're welcome to disagree with my opinions.
Though you are allowed to say anything that does not violate the rules, complaining that accomplishes nothing is something I frown upon, especially one, as yours was, based on an inconsistent argument.
 

1M Industries

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I'm within my rights and voicing my opinion within guidelines. You're welcome to disagree with my opinions.
This reminds me of a quote: "If the best argument that you can come up with for a statement is that it is technically not illegal, then it is most likely not very useful, helpful, or nice." EDIT: The real quote is: "Dfending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally illegal to express." http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1357:_Free_Speech
 
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Mannhood

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Jul 29, 2019
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First off i got to page 8 and could not be bothered to keep reading the same stuff over and over so in advance sorry if this is a "double post"

I have played with Reikas mods for almost 2 years now and i have loved playing with them and i have followed the accusations made against him. And im truely sorry to say that he has had more then his fair share of accusations blame and lies put against him :-(

Reika : I love your mods and you are maybe the mod author i respect the most with your fast updates and involving us in the update process. But i also think that you might have been damaged a bit by all the negative things that has happened. In the sense that you no longer trust people and for good reason. But please remember that for each a..hole there is at least 100 people that appreciate your mods and that obey the rules and do not talk badly about you. Sadly it is that 1 person that ruins all the fun for both you and all us Reika mod fans. Personally id love to see your mods in a pack like agrarian skies, material energy or one of the other HQM mod packs that are made by some insanely skilled people who all love mods and could really give your mods the love they deserve.

Maybe a solution could be that if say i want to make a modpack then i ofc list the authors names and permissions. But i also clearly list all the mods that i have made changes to (not just reikas) in the description + maybe in the MC main menu I would make people aware that some mods have been changed and that any bugs in the affected mod should be reported to pack maker. Mod authors could then if they do not wish to see their mod totally broken by noobs add options to disable all the block's they find are ok to disable and in complex mods like rotarycraft the mod author could make a readme file that explains what not should be changed to make sure endgame and progression is not broken.

This would make sure the right people are listed for "blame" and modders like Reika can point back to the pack creators and focus on real bugs and new features and be happy to know 99% of all that use their mods either use the real deal or a slightly changed version that is hopefully enjoyable and that they wont be blamed for.
 
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Reika

RotaryCraft Dev
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First off i got to page 8 and could not be bothered to keep reading the same stuff over and over so in advance sorry if this is a "double post"

I have played with Reikas mods for almost 2 years now and i have loved playing with them and i have followed the accusations made against him. And im truely sorry to say that he has had more then his fair share of accusations blame and lies put against him :-(

Reika : I love your mods and you are maybe the mod author i respect the most with your fast updates and involving us in the update process. But i also think that you might have been damaged a bit by all the negative things that has happened. In the sense that you no longer trust people and for good reason. But please remember that for each a..hole there is at least 100 people that depreciate your mods and that obey the rules and do not talk badly about you. Sadly it is that 1 person that ruins all the fun for both you and all us Reika mod fans. Personally id love to see your mods in a pack like agrarian skies, material energy or one of the other HQM mod packs that are made by some insanely skilled people who all love mods and could really give your mods the love they deserve.

Maybe a solution could be that if say i want to make a modpack then i ofc list the authors names and permissions. But i also clearly list all the mods that i have made changes to (not just reikas) in the description + maybe in the MC main menu I would make people aware that some mods have been changed and that any bugs in the affected mod should be reported to pack maker. Mod authors could then if they do not wish to see their mod totally broken by noobs add options to disable all the block's they find are ok to disable and in complex mods like rotarycraft the mod author could make a readme file that explains what not should be changed to make sure endgame and progression is not broken.

This would make sure the right people are listed for "blame" and modders like Reika can point back to the pack creators and focus on real bugs and new features and be happy to know 99% of all that use their mods either use the real deal or a slightly changed version that is hopefully enjoyable and that they wont be blamed for.
My new rules would mostly account for this, at least within my mods. I leave other mods up to the other developers, as many do not see the same level of risk.
 

Mannhood

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Jul 29, 2019
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My new rules would mostly account for this, at least within my mods. I leave other mods up to the other developers, as many do not see the same level of risk.

I agree that your new rules would cover it. But from what i understand the pack developers are saying that listing every single change would take to much time and take something away from their creative process and that they do not want to start a trend where every mod developer should have some sort of different treatment. And to be fair I understand that also they would like to focus on being creative just like you do and they do not want to have to conform to 120+ different rules some of witch might conflict or they might forget/misunderstand something and then maybe get some of the same negative treatment you have.

This is why i suggested to that you could maybe change your rules so that they would only have to in maybe the description/main menu text list the mods they made changes to and not list every single change they made. I know that other mod makers do not demand this but in my opinion it would just be good practice to list their mod as changed also. Just so that all of us "noob" pack users know where to send a possible bug report.

And I hope you understand what i meant in my last post with 99% of the people using your mods love them and we respect you. Sadly the 1% that are aholes are ruining it for the rest of us and especially you and i hope i can make you realize that there is a lot more love then hate for you and your mods just look at this forum and your own how many take the time to defend you. If you want a reason to loosen your rules and make them more like other modders then do it for them and forget the jerks who are rude (even if it's hard) they are the minority.