Problem with Forestry Ethanol, RotaryCraft and Logistics Pipes

[Ieldra]

Perhaps someone here can help me.

After I had installed RotaryCraft, I started rebuilding my fluid storage system, partly to account for new liquids and partly because I wanted to do it anyway, subsituting Railcraft steel tanks for iron tanks. Everything went well until I started to move my Forestry Ethanol to a new tank using Logistics Pipes. I found that any new Fluid Supplier Pipes I placed would not draw from the existing Provider Pipes. Knocking off a Provider and then replacing it resulted in the old Suppliers not drawing from the new one. As a Test, I made a self-contained LP system containing only a Power Junction, one tank with Forestry Ethanol, an empty tank and a Provider/Supplier pair. Result: the same.

Every other liquid I'm dealing with doesn't have this problem. I think there's something about two mods defining their own versions of ethanol with no compatibility, or the fact that the Monster installation I took RotaryCraft from has an older LP version.

Does anyone have any idea how I can fix this? I can switch back to fluiducts (which work), but that rather cramps my style since then I can't use pipe wiring to switch my compression dynamos on and off, making the engine block much less compact.

Meanwhile, I've also found that TE compression dynamos don't run on RoC ethanol, which makes no sense at all.

 

[trajing]

Honestly, the no ethanol for compression dynamo fuel is probably purposeful, considering Reika's addiction to nerfs.

 

[Ieldra]

Honestly, the no ethanol for compression dynamo fuel is probably purposeful, considering Reika's addiction to nerfs.

I don't know the mod creator, but this is certainly odd. On one hand RotaryCraft is friendly with other mods - which other big industry mod provides power conversion in both directions - but these incompatibilities are galling. Most of the time, I don't mind nerfs if they make sense, but this is a prime example of one that doesn't.

Anway, nobody appears to know anything about this LP problem. Well, I guess I'll go back to fluiducts to supply my compression engines for now.

 

[YX33A]

Reika made his fluids in a way that they are only compatible where and when he decides they are.

Just curious, though: The fluid system you're using LP for... You have a provider and that's where it comes from. Did you tell the pipes where the fluid was supposed to go? It may be smart, but a computer still only does what you tell it to do.

 

[Ieldra]

@YX33A:
The LP fluid system works analogous to items: I usually make fluids enter the system by fluid extraction pipes attached either to the producer machine or to an attached small Buildcraft tank if necessary. They are then routed to their storage with basic fluid pipes (If you've been using chassis pipes for items, you may have forgotten that the basic pipes define the "sinks" in the non-chassis system). A fluid provider pipe is attached to the tank at the exit valve (or any other appropriate place, in Railcraft tanks this needs to be in the bottom layer) and fluid supplier pipes can draw from the tank through the provider. The advantage of such a system is that the producing machines and the tanks can be anywhere on your base, provided the places are connected to your LP network. Producers and users of the fluid can also be moved around with little hassle if necessary. Even big tanks are no problem: build the new tank, attach a basic fluid pipe and select the fluid, then replace the provider on the old tank with an extractor and watch as the new tank fills itself from the old one.

As for RoC and compatibility, I've noticed that. I'm usually ok with it but incompatible ethanol definitely makes no sense.

 

[YX33A]

@YX33A:
The LP fluid system works analogous to items: I usually make fluids enter the system by fluid extraction pipes attached either to the producer machine or to an attached small Buildcraft tank if necessary. They are then routed to their storage with basic fluid pipes (If you've been using chassis pipes for items, you may have forgotten that the basic pipes define the "sinks" in the non-chassis system). A fluid provider pipe is attached to the tank at the exit valve (or any other appropriate place, in Railcraft tanks this needs to be in the bottom layer) and fluid supplier pipes can draw from the tank through the provider. The advantage of such a system is that the producing machines and the tanks can be anywhere on your base, provided the places are connected to your LP network. Producers and users of the fluid can also be moved around with little hassle if necessary. Even big tanks are no problem: build the new tank, attach a basic fluid pipe and select the fluid, then replace the provider on the old tank with an extractor and watch as the new tank fills itself from the old one.

As for RoC and compatibility, I've noticed that. I'm usually ok with it but incompatible ethanol definitely makes no sense.

Ethanol in RoC has two forms; ethanol crystals, your basic stuff, and gasoline, the fluid made from those crystals. Don't see how it makes no sense.

 

[Ieldra]

Ethanol in RoC has two forms; ethanol crystals, your basic stuff, and gasoline, the fluid made from those crystals. Don't see how it makes no sense.

It's supposed to be the same stuff. Made from plant material by fermentation, both named "Ethanol", both usable as fuel in the same engine type. There is no reason why RoC liquid ethanol shouldn't be interchangeable with Forestry liquid ethanol. Actually, why isn't it the same stuff in the first place? That RoC adds a solid material that can be transformed into it should not make a difference.

 

[Padfoote]

There is no reason why RoC liquid ethanol shouldn't be interchangeable with Forestry liquid ethanol.

Because Reika didn't want it to be used interchangeably. That's all there is to it. Ultimately, the dev's vision for their mod trumps what players think should happen.

 

[McJty]

It's supposed to be the same stuff. Made from plant material by fermentation, both named "Ethanol", both usable as fuel in the same engine type. There is no reason why RoC liquid ethanol shouldn't be interchangeable with Forestry liquid ethanol. Actually, why isn't it the same stuff in the first place? That RoC adds a solid material that can be transformed into it should not make a difference.

Is the Ethanol even liquid in RoC? It is just ethanol crystals which is not a liquid.

 

[Ieldra]

Is the Ethanol even liquid in RoC? It is just ethanol crystals which is not a liquid.

RoC also defines liquid ethanol, not just the crystals. IIRC gasoline engines convert the crystals into liquid before they use it. You can transform the crystals into liquid (colored cyan, as opposed to Forestry Ethanol's orange/brown) with a Magma Crucible.

If the liquid didn't exist, resulting in two liquids names "ethanol", I think the problem with Logistics Pipes not being able to provide/supply Forestry ethanol after RoC has been installed wouldn't exist. While I'm at it, this also results in Mystcraft having a problem with the "biofuel block" (Biofuel is one of the several names ethanol has, or has had).

You know, it's one thing to make your liquids incompatible against all common sense, but quite another if this results in other mods having problems with stuff not defined by your mod.

 

[Pyure]

I believe Reika's of the opinion that they're not the same stuff, and that letting his fuel be used in some machines would be analogous to letting apple juice fuel those machines.

Really though I think the bigger reason is that he is 4000% against having the reverse hold true: he absolutely does not want those fuels functioning in his machines (directly). So keeping the fuels separate is just being consistent.

 

[Siigari]

I believe Reika's of the opinion that they're not the same stuff, and that letting his fuel be used in some machines would be analogous to letting apple juice fuel those machines.

Really though I think the bigger reason is that he is 4000% against having the reverse hold true: he absolutely does not want those fuels functioning in his machines (directly). So keeping the fuels separate is just being consistent.

On the one hand while I can appreciate the system of keeping progression in a closed loop, often times mod packs (mixed-up mods) have you going in a bunch of different directions. Even Reika uses other mods in conjunction/harmony with RoC/ReC. Consistency is one thing, but total lockdown is another. Ethanol exists in Forestry and RoC. Personally I'd like to see them allowed to be interchanged or even oredict. If somebody wants to use Reika's mods solo in a pack I am sure that's a possible idea, but then you're taking away from the fun of things like automation and then you hack away at the efficiency that the mod brings. So it's interesting -- the mod is complex and the end-game is all about efficiency and massive income, but the mod's potential is only truly realized when used in harmony with other mods. The thing is it's all on Reika's terms, so other mods can benefit it but not the other way around, per se.

I started messing with RotaryCraft on our server. A few guys made it look awesome, but I just wonder what's the point when there are plenty of other mods which can achieve similar goals. I posted a thread about it, thought on it, watched some videos and then came to the realization that because it's in a completely closed-inward circuit and open-outward only that I don't want to mess with it at this time. My decision might change down the road as I get more stuff accomplished but for now I'm good just learning bees

 

[Pyure]

On the one hand while I can appreciate the system of keeping progression in a closed loop, often times mod packs (mixed-up mods) have you going in a bunch of different directions. Even Reika uses other mods in conjunction/harmony with RoC/ReC. Consistency is one thing, but total lockdown is another. Ethanol exists in Forestry and RoC. Personally I'd like to see them allowed to be interchanged or even oredict. If somebody wants to use Reika's mods solo in a pack I am sure that's a possible idea, but then you're taking away from the fun of things like automation and then you hack away at the efficiency that the mod brings. So it's interesting -- the mod is complex and the end-game is all about efficiency and massive income, but the mod's potential is only truly realized when used in harmony with other mods. The thing is it's all on Reika's terms, so other mods can benefit it but not the other way around, per se.

I started messing with RotaryCraft on our server. A few guys made it look awesome, but I just wonder what's the point when there are plenty of other mods which can achieve similar goals. I posted a thread about it, thought on it, watched some videos and then came to the realization that because it's in a completely closed-inward circuit and open-outward only that I don't want to mess with it at this time. My decision might change down the road as I get more stuff accomplished but for now I'm good just learning bees

Bear in mind I actually agree wtih you on most of this stuff. The one area I need to stick to Reika's argument is if he decides that the fuels are different. Just because we have two fuels of the same name (ethanol) doesn't mean they're actually comprised at all of the same stuff.

I wonder if the best solution would be to have the Forestry team create a machine that explicitly converts the fuel into their Ethanol? (ideally not like a MFR "unifier" which converts for free; more like a ReC fuel purifier RoC fuel enhancer or whatever its called). Everyone should basically be satisfied at that point.

 

[Ieldra]

I started messing with RotaryCraft on our server. A few guys made it look awesome, but I just wonder what's the point when there are plenty of other mods which can achieve similar goals. I posted a thread about it, thought on it, watched some videos and then came to the realization that because it's in a completely closed-inward circuit and open-outward only that I don't want to mess with it at this time. My decision might change down the road as I get more stuff accomplished but for now I'm good just learning bees

Fortunately, it's not closed-inward for energy. You can use MJ and RF to power RoC machines. If not for that, I wouldn't have installed it. But yes, because of this tendency I'm starting to have some misgivings about having added it to my world. It doesn't help that my texture pack hasn't got a RoC patch.

 

[Siigari]

Oh nice, well I learned some stuff today. Thank you both

 

[Ieldra]

To clarify: you can't power RoC machines with RF/MJ directly, but RoC provides power converters in both directions. For instance, use a magnetostatic engine to convert RF to shaft power, and a rotational dynamo to convert shaft power to RF. Where RoC is friendly with other mods, it's *really* friendly.

 

[YX33A]

RoC also defines liquid ethanol, not just the crystals. IIRC gasoline engines convert the crystals into liquid before they use it. You can transform the crystals into liquid (colored cyan, as opposed to Forestry Ethanol's orange/brown) with a Magma Crucible.

If the liquid didn't exist, resulting in two liquids names "ethanol", I think the problem with Logistics Pipes not being able to provide/supply Forestry ethanol after RoC has been installed wouldn't exist. While I'm at it, this also results in Mystcraft having a problem with the "biofuel block" (Biofuel is one of the several names ethanol has, or has had).

You know, it's one thing to make your liquids incompatible against all common sense, but quite another if this results in other mods having problems with stuff not defined by your mod.

The liquid version of those crystals isn't liquid ethanol... it's gasoline.

 

[Ieldra]

It appears that none of the RoC-exclusive lquids work with the Logistics Pipes provider/supply system.... No comment.

@YX33A:
Made by the same process from the same raw materials in machines of the same types. I guess we should agree to disagree on that one.

 

[YX33A]

It appears that none of the RoC-exclusive lquids work with the Logistics Pipes provider/supply system.... No comment.

@YX33A:
Made by the same process from the same raw materials in machines of the same types. I guess we should agree to disagree on that one.

They are basically the same thing, yes. And Reika said they aren't. QED they are not the same thing in the sense that they could work interchangeably, but they are made via the same process from the same materials, and they can not be freely swapped around, if even swapped around at all. It's sorta like how gasoline and kerosine are made from the same thing(oil), through the same process(fractional distillation), and they can NOT be used interchangeably.

 

[Reika]

I am willing to add the ability for compression dynamos to run off of RC ethanol, but not the reverse.