Obviously not everyone, or there wouldn't be an entire thread devoted to complaining about it.
Power Converters complaining thread
- Thread starter Whovian
- Start date
Because if you take away challenges you take away creativity. When you're challenged you come up with cool solutions for a problem. If you're not you just go for the easy solution that's right there in your face. Where's the fun in that?
Mods should only be added to the pack if they increase fun. If you don't find challenges fun you can always just play on a creative server if that's more your thing.
I don't mind power converters being in the mod, but I do consider them to be a bit too simplistic given their potential. I'd be happier if their conversion ratio was a bit lower than the other, more complex options.
As to whether they're OP, well .. if your definition of OP is "can do the same thing but far, far cheaper and simpler" then yeah, power convertors are clearly OP .. but as is frequently said, you have the choice of either disabling them or not using them.
As to whether they're OP, well .. if your definition of OP is "can do the same thing but far, far cheaper and simpler" then yeah, power convertors are clearly OP .. but as is frequently said, you have the choice of either disabling them or not using them.
Oh please. Minecraft, modded or otherwise, is about as challenging as a walk in the park. Power conversion doesn't even have a path to a 'cool' solution. You build a Electrical Engine or ten for EU -> MJ, or a Energy bridge for two way conversion. Two choices*. Yeah. And while Power Converters are clearly better, they cost more so balance.
Also pro-tip the only options aren't 'stupid tedium based fake difficulty' and 'creative'. There's a scale. Also, just because someone doesn't enjoy your specific level of difficulty, it doesn't make their enjoy. less valid. Seriously don't try to be elitist at Minecraft.
*I guess you could make a RP thingy, but the conversion ratio is so terrible I don't know why you'd bother.
This thread? It's mostle devoted to people disagreeing with the OP. Making "an entire thread to complain" about something is as easy as making a single post. I could make "an entire thread devoted to complatining about modpacks" but that wouldn't mean that there is a groundswell of opinion that modpacks are bad.
Mmm... my problem with Power Converters, other than ratios that permit infinite energy loops (which can be fixed in the config settings) is the fact that it is even necessary to begin with.
And actually, UE is probably the arctypical example of a problem with power systems which is best summed up by xkcd. One of the original points of the mod was to be a universal power source that ran everything. Hence the name "Universal Energy". It ended up being yet another competing power system.
And actually, UE is probably the arctypical example of a problem with power systems which is best summed up by xkcd. One of the original points of the mod was to be a universal power source that ran everything. Hence the name "Universal Energy". It ended up being yet another competing power system.
But you have to create different solutions for different types of energy. I'm not saying that creating a magma crucible > thermal generator is incredibly hard. That's not what I meant with challenging, the challenge is coming up with the solutions to the problems and building them. Not the actualy crafting-the-blocks part (unlike what some mod authors think adding tediums to the crafting does not make the mod more fun).
A large part of FTB is to create a powersource for all the machines you want to build. My AE network for example requires about 100 MJ/t (MJ, not energy units). So this requires me to build a boilers. Which requires me to build a treefarm. Etc. That you HAVE to provide power means that you have something to do. Although you could convert EU to MJ before it was very inefficient so it challenged you to go for more ingenious solution than wat people now do with powerconvertors: plop down a solar and use power converts for pretty much everything.
So what PC is doing is simply removing the need for any planning or thought on a power supply. I personally like the engineering part. I play SMP and I like to see how others solve the energy part of the engineering challenge in FTB. And with mods like power convertors pretty much all you see on servers are people just building more solars.
On our server we banned solars in community projects because they take away all the creativity. Power converters does the same. Same goes for EE3 and (even worse) Xeno's: these mods are proxies for creative mode removing the need to create a supply of certain materials. If I can creative-mode in ender pearls; why would I bother with an enderman farm or ender bees? I mean, Xeno's even lets you duplicate glowstone and DRAGON EGGS for crying out loud, how does that not stymie creativity?
And yes, it bothers me that for a game and a modpack that gives us so much that adds to creativity the modpack authors are so undiscriminating when it comes to mods that take it away.
And no, "just don't use it" is not an answer to this issue. 99% of servers have default packs with default configs and it is well known that people only look for creative solutions if you simply remove the stuff that makes them avoid it.
No, you don't. You want to see the most creative thing I've seen done with Minecraft, ever?
That was done on the XBox version in Creative mode.
Furthermore I am waiting for people who feel that having multiple implementations of power is a challenge worthy of preservation to continue their crusade against unification and start a topic to complain about the Forge Ore and Liquid dictionaries. Surely if forcing the players to use divergent methods of power generation and transmission is considered a boon to creativity, so too would forcing players to use divergent forms of ores and liquids. Obviously that is absurd, as absurd as requiring multiple systems of power.
Finally, I have actually found it a larger challenge to stay constrained to one form of power. For the past several versions I have been able to generate up to 72MJ/t of power from a 36HP boiler. It wasn't until this version that I have even bothered to make a 36HP boiler because I had no need to do so. Power generation is exceptionally cheap and plentiful for 3 of the systems (MJ, EU, UE) and the other two (RP2, Factorization) are seen as niche at best. Meanwhile power demands have been exceedingly low by comparison.
What has changed recently that finally got me to try my first 36HP? Three things. First, I dropped anything which didn't interact with MJ. Second, I have added more mods which were using MJ. AE, MPS, MFR. Third, sensible cost for power transmission across distances (TE's Tesseract). The end result is that my main base now has more things which have a constant power draw, more things which spike power draw, and a great way to transmit that power at cost to remote locations. IE, I have a larger demand for MJ so my builds have to be robust enough to handle the demands placed upon it. That, too, is a challenge. One that I personally find more engaging than mixing in 3 unrelated and equally overpowered power generation schemes which all generate far more power than any one system can reasonably draw.
Now, there's an argument to be made that Power Converters shouldn't be lossless. That there shouldn't be a method of generating power through conversions itself. And frankly, you'll get no argument from me. See my description of Tesseracts above. But having a method of consolidating into a single model of power generation and transmission is a good thing as it can bring parity between demand and generation. Parity which can bring its own form of challenge to builds.
i`ve managed to build a gregtech fusion reactor that powers enough centrifuges and electrolyzers, to supply itself with deuterium and tritium via ME network.
water cells are provided by liquid transposer(could use rp deployer, but meh), powerd by electric engines. have i broken and beaten the game?
water cells are provided by liquid transposer(could use rp deployer, but meh), powerd by electric engines. have i broken and beaten the game?
i like them, but I'm using them in a way that's doable anyway, I'm just doing it in a different way; steam consumer -> BC producer instead of using steam engines that do exactly the same thing. Admittedly it's cheaper.
Hmm. Perhaps a slightly more complex system for converting energy ...
(Guys, sincerest apologies.)
Eh, I think we just meant two different things by "complex."
I didn't mean complex in the sense of unnecessarily so.
I meant it in the sense that, say, AE and Boilers are complex.
Yes, I consider AE complex. I see the simplicity, and acknowledge it. I even consider it simple.
Again, I think we meant different things.
I didn't mean complex in the sense of unnecessarily so.
I meant it in the sense that, say, AE and Boilers are complex.
Yes, I consider AE complex. I see the simplicity, and acknowledge it. I even consider it simple.
Again, I think we meant different things.
Guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. I personally like to have to resort to stuff like crucible > geo setups to turn one kind of power into another. I don't like such simply mods adding simply blocks that you just plop down and get ridiculous lossless conversion ratio's.
No, we don't have to agree to disagree. I don't disagree at all that your preference is to not use power converters is right for you. I would hope you would not disagree that me not using power converters because I don't use mods that don't use MJ as power is wrong for me, either.
Or you know, we could just agree to let people do whatever the hell they damn well please and leave it at that.
It's not exactly going to do anyone harm either way.
It's not exactly going to do anyone harm either way.
Or you just realize that people have opinions that might differ from yours and that there's nothing wrong with that.
... Uh. Yes. That is more or less what I said.
Look the operative word there is "opinions."
Understand that I don't give a rat's ass who likes or doesn't like the mod in question. My "opinion" is that it's silly for people to argue it's existence based on the preference of someone else when it can be enabled/disabled ridiculously easily.
Whether you agree with me or not, who cares? The fact of the matter is this discussion is irrelevant.
What I don't agree with most of all is that this is a complaint thread based on negative opinon of the said mod with what seems to be the goal of having it taken off the mod pack as an "Anti-PowerConverters" thread, otherwise the goal is naught but to bitch about it's simplicity.
No it's not, that's the point. I'm getting pretty fed up with people trying to kill every single discussion with these kinds of statements. Discussions are good because it makes you consider the standpoint of someone who disagrees with you. It's the whole bloody point of forums like these.
If someone disagrees with Mod X being in the pack, LET THEM! Do you really think just one person's opinion is going to influence anything? I have strong opinions / dislikes about some mods and if it were up to me they would not be in the pack. But it's not up to me and not up to you either; it's up to the mod pack authors. If threads like these annoy you for some weird ass reason you really have NO reason whatsoever to comment.
And yeah, it's nice to be able to bitch about stuff you disagree with. If I bitch about GregTech and you come in and say "well don't use it" you're completely missing the point.
We're actually saying completely different things.