Morph - Flight seems a bit op..

Democretes

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as being the person who suggested this... by killing more mobs to gain more abilities from that mob would make you spend more time on that mod in progressing it. now I'm not saying that tedium is the best choice for balance, but just 1 kill is really not alot to gain everything right of the bat.

as for the inventory limit, I myself was thinking along the line of having a block in that limited inventory that you could place down, then you can stand on it and morph back into yourself, then do the things you need to do and morph back into a bat.
As for the first part, I get that. Killing one mob and gaining there abilities is kind of too easy. I get that. But killing any more than 10 or so would start to get tedious and boring.

As for the latter, why not just morph back and forth? I mean, there's a few seconds between forms so it really doesn't matter. I just don't see a point in limiting what you can wear or use in certain forms since people will just morph out of them.
 

Yusunoha

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As for the first part, I get that. Killing one mob and gaining there abilities is kind of too easy. I get that. But killing any more than 10 or so would start to get tedious and boring.
no, using a very high number for the morph is indeed not a good choice. rather I'd make it so the morphs become tiered, and to reach the new tier you'll have to kill an additional amount of mobs to unlock it. these tiers could for example improve the amount of time that you can stay in that morph. this way you're still able to use the morph, but it'll require more work if you want to use it for a longer time.

As for the latter, why not just morph back and forth? I mean, there's a few seconds between forms so it really doesn't matter. I just don't see a point in limiting what you can wear or use in certain forms since people will just morph out of them.
it just makes more sense to me that when you morph into a different entity, you'll not only obtain it's abilities, but it's other traits aswell. for me it makes sense that you don't only inherit the good traits, but also the bad traits, and that it'll take work and effort to improve those bad traits.
 

Democretes

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no, using a very high number for the morph is indeed not a good choice. rather I'd make it so the morphs become tiered, and to reach the new tier you'll have to kill an additional amount of mobs to unlock it. these tiers could for example improve the amount of time that you can stay in that morph. this way you're still able to use the morph, but it'll require more work if you want to use it for a longer time.



it just makes more sense to me that when you morph into a different entity, you'll not only obtain it's abilities, but it's other traits aswell. for me it makes sense that you don't only inherit the good traits, but also the bad traits, and that it'll take work and effort to improve those bad traits.
Yes, taking away the inventory makes perfect logical sense when you think that bats can't carry things. But this is Minecraft, where you punch trees, create swords from diamonds, and water is infinite. Taking the realistic approach to this isn't going to do it much good. Like I said, you're just going to be switching to and fro from one form to the next, flipping the GUI on and off. Even though this is much more realistic, it doesn't make much sense and I doubt iChun would implement it.

Tiers would be alright as long as they provided bonuses such as a speed boost for bats, armor buffs for zombies, once you get to the higher tiers eventually eliminating the negative effects.
 

PhilHibbs

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Yes, taking away the inventory makes perfect logical sense when you think that bats can't carry things.
Flying into small spaces and wrenching things or laying pipes is one of the best things though. But I wouldn't mind, say, having to kill more bats in order to build up the ability so you can fly for longer and use tools.
 

Yusunoha

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Yes, taking away the inventory makes perfect logical sense when you think that bats can't carry things. But this is Minecraft, where you punch trees, create swords from diamonds, and water is infinite. Taking the realistic approach to this isn't going to do it much good. Like I said, you're just going to be switching to and fro from one form to the next, flipping the GUI on and off. Even though this is much more realistic, it doesn't make much sense and I doubt iChun would implement it.

Tiers would be alright as long as they provided bonuses such as a speed boost for bats, armor buffs for zombies, once you get to the higher tiers eventually eliminating the negative effects.
if mods for minecraft were all about making things easier, there would only be creative mode mods out there. Morph is indeed a mod that falls into the "fun" category rather then the "challenging" category of minecraft mods, but there's potential for it to become more then just a "fun" mod. but the problem always is that everyone is different, and with Morph there's currently 3 groups, people who like it as it is, people who find it very unbalanced and don't use it, and people who like it if some things could be changed. it's always a problem of having people from these different groups agree with eachother, but I guess we all just have to wait and see what iichun has planned...
 

Dravarden

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this op, that op... dont like it dont use it and thats it

personally I always use blaze (before I go to the nether, a bat) because it has mostly the same eye level as steve, inmune to fire/lava and hostiles dont attack (besides spiders), the downside is water and all the smoke in your face.
 

Hoff

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Morph is indeed a mod that falls into the "fun" category rather then the "challenging" category of minecraft mods, but there's potential for it to become more then just a "fun" mod.
Potential but no purpose for it. It already hits its target audience of those that enjoy it for just a fun mod. Nothing more. Making it work instead for those that want the changes make it not work for those that want it purely for fun. What you're suggesting to the mod is not an improvement it's changing the target audience completely because you want it. This. Is. Wrong.
 

RedBoss

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Potential but no purpose for it. It already hits its target audience of those that enjoy it for just a fun mod. Nothing more. Making it work instead for those that want the changes make it not work for those that want it purely for fun. What you're suggesting to the mod is not an improvement it's changing the target audience completely because you want it. This. Is. Wrong.
This.

IMHO it shouldn't be in a public modpack that aims for balance at all, but is fine for casual packs like DW20. Its a toy, there for fun. If you feel the need to balance crazy moda like Morph, then go ahead and balance Trail Mix as well.
 

Tyrindor

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I get this mod has some fun aspects, but it really should be optional and disabled by default in the main FTB packs. Same with hats. They annoy just as many people as enjoy them.

this op, that op... dont like it dont use it and thats it
I love the "then don't use it" argument that so many people use as if it makes any sense. How about you enable it if you really want it? Universal configs are there for a reason, so controversial mods like this can be left out by default. If i'm playing on a server I want an even playing field. If everyone is flying around as bats bypassing many of the game's mechanics, then I simply can't ignore it.

Most FTB servers/people use default configs and mods, which is why controversial mods should be left disabled by default. Most want a balanced pack without any alternations needed. For the few that really "must" have these controversial mods, they can enable them with a click of a button in the launcher. No reason to include them by default, it just leads to gregtech and dartcraft type situations.

Potential but no purpose for it. It already hits its target audience of those that enjoy it for just a fun mod. Nothing more. Making it work instead for those that want the changes make it not work for those that want it purely for fun. What you're suggesting to the mod is not an improvement it's changing the target audience completely because you want it. This. Is. Wrong.
Agreed.
 
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Hoff

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Hoff was talking about Hats.
Actually the post I quoted was about morph.

But really it goes for ANY mod that is purely for any specific purpose that people insist needs to be balanced differently because you're changing the core of the mod. You're saying "I want this mod but I want it done this way: xxx" The idea that the dev should make it that way to suit a new style of play is wrong because it detracts from the style of play it was already suited for. The options then should be: 1) Use it and impose self-restrictions or some other form of making it work the way you want it. 2) Don't use it. 3) Don't use it and wait for someone(Or ask someone) to make a mod like it that fits to that audience(The only real way to target both audiences) 4) Don't use it and code the version you see fit to your style of play.

Anything beyond that invades the style of others arbitrarily for an audience the mod was not made for.
 

PhilHibbs

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You're saying "I want this mod but I want it done this way: xxx" The idea that the dev should make it that way to suit a new style of play is wrong because it detracts from the style of play it was already suited for.
The decision is up to the iChun, whether he wants to take into account community feedback in one direction or another is entirely in his court. Expressing opinions is entirely appropriate in a forum such as this. No-one can force their opinions on the modder. If you don't want a mod to go in a particular direction, then you of course should express your opinion, but saying that others should not do so is not appropriate.
 

Democretes

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Flying into small spaces and wrenching things or laying pipes is one of the best things though. But I wouldn't mind, say, having to kill more bats in order to build up the ability so you can fly for longer and use tools.
I entirely agree with that and I'm all for keeping Morph the same. I'm just saying the tiers aren't a terrible alternative if something needed change.]

if mods for minecraft were all about making things easier, there would only be creative mode mods out there.
The only mods I know that make the game harder to play are gregetech and TerraFirmaCraft which have a main goal of making the game more difficult. I'm sure there are others out there that do the same but generally speaking, mods make the game easier. Resources get double, better armor gets added, rechargeable tools, I could go on for days.
 

dwappo

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Saying that the mod creater "has" to change their mod because other people thinks it doesn't fit with their playstyles is also kind of mean and not fair to the mod creater as well.
 

Hoff

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The decision is up to the iChun, whether he wants to take into account community feedback in one direction or another is entirely in his court. Expressing opinions is entirely appropriate in a forum such as this. No-one can force their opinions on the modder. If you don't want a mod to go in a particular direction, then you of course should express your opinion, but saying that others should not do so is not appropriate.
The decision is very much purely up to iChun and everyone should be able to share their opinion. My problem is when it gets to the EE2 type of talk where it became "This mod is such shit. So OP it should be this way..."; "This mod can't be good unless it works like this..."; "It's wrong if it's not like this..." Those types of statements or things to that level are where I have a problem. It pre-assumes everyone falls into a category or that there is a "right" way for a mod to be.

Morph, hats, and even portal gun were never meant to be(From my own interpretation based on the way they originally worked and their ease of use) serious gameplay mods(The reason portal gun will be considered OP by most regardless of how he changes it unless it is a radical change). Now iChun could of course choose to try and shoehorn them into the mainstream mod sets and change the target audience but personally it seems that it has no real way to be shoehorned into the mainstream mod set without being the worst option or always the best.
 
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Yosomith

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On the subject of EE2, I would love to see a 1.6.4 version of it. Everyone is too focused on balance these days, why not just let loose and have fun? Morph is fun now, Dartcraft was fun before all the balance changes (still is fun but less so) and the old EE2 was fun.

I'm not saying everything should be OP but I do think that some mods should stay how they were. Too far down the balance path and you'll end up in Gregtech land where even vanilla is OP.
 

SonOfABirch

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Saying that the mod creater "has" to change their mod because other people thinks it doesn't fit with their playstyles is also kind of mean and not fair to the mod creater as well.
except, no one is saying that. Not a single person in this thread has said that Morph HAS to be changed. They have made suggestions that they believe would improve the mod, but no one has said it has to be changed.
 

SmirkNMerk

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I agree with those that think it is op. But I don't want a repetitive solution like some of the ones suggested. How about the ability to morph be limited to the phases of the moon. The closer you are to a full moon the more time you are able to morph, day or night.

In the beginning in order to get the morph you have to find an item or entity and perform a task/process/ritual to acquire the ability to morph. However it is at it's most powerful when the moon is in it's full phase day and night, and at its lowest during its new moon phase. For instance at the height you can remain morphed for say... five minutes at a time before becoming unable to maintain a morph. And at the lowest phase you can only morph for a few seconds before having to unmorph and the "cool down" period required between morphs is at it's peak. Players should be able to extend the morph with potions and maybe armor that extends the time of the morph but also offers very little if any protection. As a price for the ability to morph for extended periods. Off course the timing may need to be adjusted but I'm merely conveying an concept.

The abilities gained while in a form should not be limited.
Health of the entity should be inherited while morphed.

I think this type of system would balance the game play overall but maybe there's an opportunity to add some parameters to certain aspects in order allow users some flexibility. Imagine server admins adjusting the rarity of this item/entity spawning. Could make for some competitive pvp scenarios if you have only person morphing for a period of time that is again at the discretion of the admin. Or you could make it ubiquitous for those who want anyone to be able to gain the Morph ability in non pvp games.
 

dwappo

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I have a question.

Why does it (or any mod for that matter) "need" to be balanced? I'm not saying that mods don't have to be "functional, or logical" but like for this, or other mods whos intention was for it to be "fun," why does it seem like there's a very thin line between "overpowered" and "too hard/needs things nerfed"?
 
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