Morph - Flight seems a bit op..

Uristqwerty

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Jul 29, 2019
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If Morph's flight is OP, why not disable it entirely, so that players need to get flight from Ars Magica (if it's an option on that modpack/server)? Ars Magica's flight requires first unlocking the effect, then getting the spell materials, and finally re-casting it periodically to maintain the effect.
 
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SkyBoy96

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Jul 29, 2019
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If Morph's flight is OP, why not disable it entirely, so that players need to get flight from Ars Magica (if it's an option on that modpack/server)? Ars Magica's flight requires first unlocking the effect, then getting the spell materials, and finally re-casting it periodically to maintain the effect.
Because not everybody will want to advance through Ars Magica's progression curve to get a short flight buff that will kill you if you forget to recast it every 22 seconds
 

eric167

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I personally like the suggested idea that you take on ALL the traits of the morphed mob, along with the timed system. for mobs with projectile attacks, maybe grant it as an upgrade to the bow, or for ghasts, require a item like TNT surrounded by 4 fire charges.
looking at the vanilla mobs:
bats can fly, but no armor, can only access hotbar, and very low HP. intermittent blindness.
zombies don't trigger other mob agro, but burn in sunlight. can use basic tools/armor. lets face it. he doesn't have much of a brain anymore. he shouldn't be able to do complex tasks like crafting. strength boost.
pigmen, same as above but don't burn. lava proof.
enderman. 3 high, can perform a short teleport in the direction of the cursor. watch your head! takes damage in water. can carry blocks like the portalgun.
creeper. no arms, so same as bat. hisssss. maybe be able to create a explosion that doesn't damage anything (good for jump-scares)
skele: same as zombie, but grants infinity on bows. no strength boost.
spider/cave spider can climb walls w/o ladder. jump boost.
 

Hoff

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I personally like the suggested idea that you take on ALL the traits of the morphed mob, along with the timed system. for mobs with projectile attacks, maybe grant it as an upgrade to the bow, or for ghasts, require a item like TNT surrounded by 4 fire charges.
looking at the vanilla mobs:
bats can fly, but no armor, can only access hotbar, and very low HP. intermittent blindness.
zombies don't trigger other mob agro, but burn in sunlight. can use basic tools/armor. lets face it. he doesn't have much of a brain anymore. he shouldn't be able to do complex tasks like crafting. strength boost.
pigmen, same as above but don't burn. lava proof.
enderman. 3 high, can perform a short teleport in the direction of the cursor. watch your head! takes damage in water. can carry blocks like the portalgun.
creeper. no arms, so same as bat. hisssss. maybe be able to create a explosion that doesn't damage anything (good for jump-scares)
skele: same as zombie, but grants infinity on bows. no strength boost.
spider/cave spider can climb walls w/o ladder. jump boost.

Hey look! A mod no one with half a brain would use!
 

PhilHibbs

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My standard response is as follows: If you think it's OP, DON'T use it.
He is trying to have a constructive discussion on how it can be improved. How is your reply any better than "shut up"?[DOUBLEPOST=1386924484][/DOUBLEPOST]
creeper. no arms, so same as bat. hisssss. maybe be able to create a explosion that doesn't damage anything (good for jump-scares)
No, you should explode when you come close to another player. That would be hilarious. Totally griefy though.
 

Yusunoha

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the thing is, Morph is an awesome mod which people really like to use, but using it alongside other mods makes Morph very unbalanced when compared with the other mods (mainly things like flight or fire resistance)
Morph was created as a fun mod like Hats was, but people really see potential in Morph to become more then just a fun mod. same thing can be said about Hats, it was created for modjam as a fun mod like Morph was, but it has the potential to become more then just a fun mod.
 

Hoff

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He is trying to have a constructive discussion on how it can be improved.
There is no way to balance a mod that was never meant to be balanced against mainstream tech mods in the first place in a way that it maintains its same user friendly play-ability.

Morph was created as a fun mod like Hats was, but people really see potential in Morph to become more then just a fun mod.
No it cannot. Not in a way that it would be of any value to anyone other than the piss poor "other" option.
 

Yusunoha

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I think that's a bit of a stretch. What practical application could there be for hats?
well, you would start with adding special attributes to hats. one hat could give you more health, the other could give you a power boost, another hat could give you a speed boost and go on. then the hats would be tiered, the higher tier hats give better stats, some will even give more types of stats, but they are only found on the more difficult mobs. this makes the collecting of hats quite important for those wanting to get certain boosts. there would also be an option to trade hats with other players, with this you're able to collect more then 1 of each hat, and you can trade those extra's with other players, maybe for their hats. this change would not only make hats more useful, it also gives a reason to collect all kinds of hats and maybe even hats you aleady have.
 

KingTriaxx

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What I'm saying is that there's no reason to ruin other peoples fun because you don't like the way the mod works. I personally feel some aspects of Dartcraft are overpowered. I don't come and complain about it, I just don't use them.
 

Democretes

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I have the ultimate solution. Disable Morph flight.

Problem = Solved

The rest of you may continue arguing if simply not using something is OP is an actually solution. Have a nice day.
 

SonOfABirch

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sigh you people really aren't getting it are you?
telling people who have legitimate sugestions to balance the mod to just disable it is like me telling you to gtfo of this forum because you don't like this thread. Seriously, just stop.

We're allowed to have opinions, we're allowed to air them, and we should be allowed to do so without being bluntly told repeatedly to disable or to not use... it doesn't work that way. This is a discussion about possible methods to improve the mod. Now, we've already had "disable it" and "don't use it" so unless you have something fresh to add to the discussion, please, run along.
 

KingTriaxx

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Balance it? Flight is an increase to hunger geometrically from sprinting. IE if sprinting takes 1/2 hunger to move x distance, flight takes 1 full hunger to move the same x distance.

There balanced.
 
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Hoff

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This is a discussion about possible methods to improve the mod.
This is what I disagree with as a whole. The mod needs no improving only tweaking. The spirit of the mod is not meant to be something seriously considered as an option but for fun. You could make it work in a modded environment where numerically it would be balanced and it would become another bland mod. Just another option that very few people will take advantage of.

The idea that mods should shape to the game you want to play is wrong IMO. You should choose mods that are already shaped to your style of play.
 

PierceSG

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Some mods are really for shit and giggles, not supoosed to be balanced anyway. To balance it would take the fun out of it, like SS2... /cry

Sent from my GT-N8020 using Tapatalk
 
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SonOfABirch

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Balance it? Flight is an increase to hunger geometrically from sprinting. IE if sprinting takes 1/2 hunger to move x distance, flight takes 1 full hunger to move the same x distance.

There balanced.
Right, so he has ALREADY TRIED TO BALANCE IT. That means that he IS interested in balance, therefore this discussion is 100% valid.
If you don't like this discussion no one is forcing you to be here.

This is what I disagree with as a whole. The mod needs no improving only tweaking. The spirit of the mod is not meant to be something seriously considered as an option but for fun. You could make it work in a modded environment where numerically it would be balanced and it would become another bland mod. Just another option that very few people will take advantage of.

The idea that mods should shape to the game you want to play is wrong IMO. You should choose mods that are already shaped to your style of play.
I do, I run a modified version of Resonant Rise where I have removed mods that I dislike/don't use. Morph used to be in the pack, but due to it's overwhelming Oh-Penis, it was first stripped of the effects (you can turn into a bat but not fly) and then, after it was seen that without the effects, there is nothing special about the mod, and that it becomes sterile and annoying, it was dropped completely.

This ENTIRE thread is to make suggestions for improving the balance of the mod (which iChun is demonstratably interested in) to make it work in a modded environment so that we don't have to nerf it into obscurity or drop it completely.

now, I say again..
unless you have something fresh to add to the discussion, please, run along.
 

Democretes

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Then allow me to freshify this discussion.

iChun has balanced Morph by increasing hunger use and making some mobs slower in certain environments. To be honest, that's the best "balance" you're going to get. Adding anything else is just going to nerf the fun of the mod. Now, before you start objecting to this, allow me to explain.

Most people have suggested changing the transformations so that you can't place blocks, use items, wear armor, etc. etc... This is an awful idea because it's just going to add the following steps.
  1. Morph into bat.
  2. Fly where needed.
  3. Morph back.
  4. Use items as needed.
  5. Repeat indefinitely.
This is just utterly tedious and in no way contributes to the mod. People still get flight out of it and can still use blocks and items once they morph out of the creature they were. It's like having a crafting table outside your house so you have to walk and back in to craft an item making crafting even more tedious. This doesn't add any kind of goal to work towards, it doesn't make the experience more fun, it just increases the amount of wasted time when morphing from creature to creature.

Another idea was to add some kind of ritual to allow access to the Morph ability. This is a much less terrible idea, but unless you like Portal Gun's Hard Mode Recipe, which would most likely be the type of thing iChun would add, this isn't a fantastic idea. Also consider that Morph has no kind of tech tree to ascend. MPSA, Thaumcraft 4, Indusctrialcraft, and most other mods that add a type of flight, add some kind of tech tree. If you doubt the MPSA part, hook it up with Thermal Expansion and you'll understand.

The next step would obviously just to kill a whole bunch of the mobs you wish to morph to! Doesn't that sound great? I would really like to see someone enjoy finding and killing 100 or so bats. It "balances" your mod well, but who is really going to use that? People will just use Soul Shards to create a spawner to farm bats or whatever mob they want. Again, another way to add tedium to Morph.

You could make it so that Morph creatures have varying inventories. The smaller the creature the less it has, but then who would ever use those creatures? Who would use a bat that would have just a hotbar or a single line of inventory space? You'd just make the bat a useless option in the grand scheme of things.

Attempting to "balance" Morph isn't going to do much for it. You're not going to add anything more than tedium. There are plenty of mods that add flight and have the proper tech tree to give it a balanced feel. Therefore, adding an option to simply disable the flight from bats would honestly be the best option. I seriously cannot imagine any way that making Morph flight balanced that doesn't making it boring, tedious, and/or useless.
 

Yusunoha

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The next step would obviously just to kill a whole bunch of the mobs you wish to morph to! Doesn't that sound great? I would really like to see someone enjoy finding and killing 100 or so bats. It "balances" your mod well, but who is really going to use that? People will just use Soul Shards to create a spawner to farm bats or whatever mob they want. Again, another way to add tedium to Morph.

You could make it so that Morph creatures have varying inventories. The smaller the creature the less it has, but then who would ever use those creatures? Who would use a bat that would have just a hotbar or a single line of inventory space? You'd just make the bat a useless option in the grand scheme of things.
as being the person who suggested this... by killing more mobs to gain more abilities from that mob would make you spend more time on that mod in progressing it. now I'm not saying that tedium is the best choice for balance, but just 1 kill is really not alot to gain everything right of the bat.

as for the inventory limit, I myself was thinking along the line of having a block in that limited inventory that you could place down, then you can stand on it and morph back into yourself, then do the things you need to do and morph back into a bat.
 
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