Modded UHC tournament

[keybounce]

Anything that adds dimensions is probably a bad idea for a UHC tournament. The goal is to get people together, not farther apart.

Any mod in that list that is late game stuff -- I'm assuming big reactors as a high-end power source will fit that -- will never be developed. Equally, stuff that is about making a base look prettier ... I don't see that being a thing either. Remember, UHC is fundamentally about the kill.

If you want to look into something to add for modded UHC, how about adding prayers? If you don't kill someone, they'll get away and recover. The "minor nicking to death" that normally features in Minecrack UHC goes away -- you can't count on the caving damage that people will have taken, and people will risk the nether for potions and extra healing in combat.

Blood Magic ... Seriously? How are you going to heal the damage you take just making a level one altar / any stones or tools?

Sync ... WTF?!?? So, if you kill someone, they disappear back to their base, and you actually have to find/hunt down their base to get rid of them for good ...

 

[Mevansuto]

Anything that adds dimensions is probably a bad idea for a UHC tournament. The goal is to get people together, not farther apart.

Any mod in that list that is late game stuff -- I'm assuming big reactors as a high-end power source will fit that -- will never be developed. Equally, stuff that is about making a base look prettier ... I don't see that being a thing either. Remember, UHC is fundamentally about the kill.

If you want to look into something to add for modded UHC, how about adding prayers? If you don't kill someone, they'll get away and recover. The "minor nicking to death" that normally features in Minecrack UHC goes away -- you can't count on the caving damage that people will have taken, and people will risk the nether for potions and extra healing in combat.

Blood Magic ... Seriously? How are you going to heal the damage you take just making a level one altar / any stones or tools?

Sync ... WTF?!?? So, if you kill someone, they disappear back to their base, and you actually have to find/hunt down their base to get rid of them for good ...

I've had a look at what you've said. I removed all aesthetics mods. Added Prayers. Removed Twilight Forest, to minimise number of dimensions, but I'm keeping Galacticraft as space battles sound too cool to leave out. I'm keeping Blood Magic in the hopes someone is stupid enough to try it. As for end-game stuff and Sync, we've decided we want to prolong the game as much as possible and if the game is prolonged they're going to need bigger stuff to build. I have remove BR though as it had some overlap we didn't need. I'm tempted to remove TE as I want people to try other mods. I completely forgot better mobs mods. I'm adding Mo' Creatures, Zombie Awareness, Special Mobs, Lava Monsters and Grimoire of Gaia 2. Also the Weather mod and Unlit Torches and Lanterns.

The pack as it stands:

1. Advanced Terrain Generation
2. Applied Energistics
3. ARCHIMEDES' SHIPS
4. ArmorStatus HUD
5. Ars Magica 2
6. Atomic Science
7. Better Storage
8. Biomes O' Plenty
9. Blood Magic
10. Damage Indicators
11. DartCraft
12. Ender Storage
13. EnderIO
14. Engineers Toolbox
15. Enhanced Portals
16. EVOC
17. Extra Cells
18. Extra Utilities
19. Flat Signs
20. ForgeIRC
21. Galacticraft Planets
22. Galaticraft
23. Gascraft
24. Grimoire of Gaia 2
25. Hardcore Ender Expansion
26. Hat Stand
27. Hats
28. Highlands
29. ICBM
30. Infernal Mobs
31. Infinity Bows
32. Inventory Tweaks
33. Jabba
34. Lava Monsters
35. Mariculture
36. Mekanism
37. MFFS
38. Minefactory Reloaded
39. Mo' Creatures
40. Modular Power Suit
41. Modular Power Suits Addons
42. Natura
43. NEI
44. NEI Addons
45. NEI Plugins
46. Nether Ores
47. Not Enough Keys
48. ObsidiPlates
49. Open Components
50. Open Computers
51. OpenBlocks
52. Pam's Clay Spawn
53. Portal Gun
54. Project:Red
55. Redstone Arsenal
56. Remote IO
57. Resonant Induction
58. Revamp
59. ServerTools
60. SortFix
61. Special Mobs
62. Steve's Factory Manager
63. Sync
64. Thaumcraft 4
65. Thaumic Tinkerer
66. Thaumic Tinkerer - KAMI
67. Thermal Expansion
68. Tinkers' Construct
69. Tinkers' Mechworks
70. Translocators
71. UNDERGROUND BIOMES
72. Unlit Torches and Lanterns
73. W.A.I.L.A
74. Weather
75. Witchery
76. WRCBE
77. Xenos' Reliquary
78. Zombie Awareness

 

[BreezyTaco]

Looks like a decent mod list, so I assume ATLauncher didn't accept the old one since you made this?

 

[BreezyTaco]

Any mod in that list that is late game stuff -- I'm assuming big reactors as a high-end power source will fit that -- will never be developed. Equally, stuff that is about making a base look prettier ... I don't see that being a thing either. Remember, UHC is fundamentally about the kill.

Big reactors can actually be achieved pretty early game, just yellorite, iron, coal, some redstone, and a diamond can get you one. They could be a good way to fill up an energy cell to carry around as portable power

 

[Mevansuto]

Looks like a decent mod list, so I assume ATLauncher didn't accept the old one since you made this?

It's complicated what happened with ATLauncher, best not go into it.

Big Reactors or Atomic Science?
Bring back Twilight Forest?

 

[keybounce]

I'm keeping Blood Magic in the hopes someone is stupid enough to try it. As for end-game stuff and Sync, we've decided we want to prolong the game as much as possible and if the game is prolonged they're going to need bigger stuff to build.

Prediction: Someone with a massive build of sync shells, and either some source of RF (if you have it), or pet dogs (better treadmill producers than pigs, apparently), will have so many life points available from repeated sync shells that they will get up to the level 3 altars. I think it was level two that you could make a mob farm to feed your altar.

This pack becomes all about your ability to hide, long enough, to get a mob farm going. In particular, if you can tame a spawner, you "win".

Equally, you are actually encouraging nether migration. If I can migrate to the nether, with a portal near 0,0, and "Trap" it such that it is almost impossible for someone else to enter the nether, then my chance of being detected is very, very low. A pack of dogs with me, and resources -- and note that you have nether ores, so I'll get more -- oh, bleep -- you have tinkerer's construct, so all the netherrack is tool material -- why not turn this into a race for "who can enter the nether first, and manage to survive"?

MFR lets you make mob spawners. So I can make a zombie spawner while hidden in the nether, and between sync shells, spawners, and blood magic, I get really powerful, while no one can find me (and a good trap on a nether portal should prevent most people from entering the nether to try to track me). I dictate when the battle occurs. Etc.

Is this the type of battle you want to encourage? I think not.

 

[Mevansuto]

Prediction: Someone with a massive build of sync shells, and either some source of RF (if you have it), or pet dogs (better treadmill producers than pigs, apparently), will have so many life points available from repeated sync shells that they will get up to the level 3 altars. I think it was level two that you could make a mob farm to feed your altar.

This pack becomes all about your ability to hide, long enough, to get a mob farm going. In particular, if you can tame a spawner, you "win".

Equally, you are actually encouraging nether migration. If I can migrate to the nether, with a portal near 0,0, and "Trap" it such that it is almost impossible for someone else to enter the nether, then my chance of being detected is very, very low. A pack of dogs with me, and resources -- and note that you have nether ores, so I'll get more -- oh, bleep -- you have tinkerer's construct, so all the netherrack is tool material -- why not turn this into a race for "who can enter the nether first, and manage to survive"?

MFR lets you make mob spawners. So I can make a zombie spawner while hidden in the nether, and between sync shells, spawners, and blood magic, I get really powerful, while no one can find me (and a good trap on a nether portal should prevent most people from entering the nether to try to track me). I dictate when the battle occurs. Etc.

Is this the type of battle you want to encourage? I think not.

Point proven. Sync shall be removed, but now I see no need to remove BM so it'll stay. Not sure how to solve nether migration though.

 

[Eadorimthryth]

Anything that adds dimensions is probably a bad idea for a UHC tournament. The goal is to get people together, not farther apart.

Any mod in that list that is late game stuff -- I'm assuming big reactors as a high-end power source will fit that -- will never be developed. Equally, stuff that is about making a base look prettier ... I don't see that being a thing either. Remember, UHC is fundamentally about the kill.

If you want to look into something to add for modded UHC, how about adding prayers? If you don't kill someone, they'll get away and recover. The "minor nicking to death" that normally features in Minecrack UHC goes away -- you can't count on the caving damage that people will have taken, and people will risk the nether for potions and extra healing in combat.

Blood Magic ... Seriously? How are you going to heal the damage you take just making a level one altar / any stones or tools?

Sync ... WTF?!?? So, if you kill someone, they disappear back to their base, and you actually have to find/hunt down their base to get rid of them for good ...

for spawn and stuff and maybe prison i would like to be able to use chisel, since it has a looooooot of blocks to make stuff look nice/cool/awesome. Also, but beside the point, i would like to make a modded parkour map with the mods, (but the MUHC has of course a higher priority) and thsi should be accounted with (but i want to say it and if someone objects it is easier for me to know now than later).
And when the players die it is safer to sent them to another dimension and make a nice prison there, with stuff to kill the time idk.
But with your other points i agree, and you have valid points.[DOUBLEPOST=1394878415][/DOUBLEPOST]

Prediction: Someone with a massive build of sync shells, and either some source of RF (if you have it), or pet dogs (better treadmill producers than pigs, apparently), will have so many life points available from repeated sync shells that they will get up to the level 3 altars. I think it was level two that you could make a mob farm to feed your altar.

This pack becomes all about your ability to hide, long enough, to get a mob farm going. In particular, if you can tame a spawner, you "win".

Equally, you are actually encouraging nether migration. If I can migrate to the nether, with a portal near 0,0, and "Trap" it such that it is almost impossible for someone else to enter the nether, then my chance of being detected is very, very low. A pack of dogs with me, and resources -- and note that you have nether ores, so I'll get more -- oh, bleep -- you have tinkerer's construct, so all the netherrack is tool material -- why not turn this into a race for "who can enter the nether first, and manage to survive"?

MFR lets you make mob spawners. So I can make a zombie spawner while hidden in the nether, and between sync shells, spawners, and blood magic, I get really powerful, while no one can find me (and a good trap on a nether portal should prevent most people from entering the nether to try to track me). I dictate when the battle occurs. Etc.

Is this the type of battle you want to encourage? I think not.

can't we nerf all the spawners?

 

[Mevansuto]

I believe the addition of these mods should make waiting in the nether too difficult.

AOBD

WeeeFlowers

Harvestcraft

Hunger Overhaul

Thaumcraft Mob Aspects

Iguana Tweaks

Deadly World

Utility Mobs[DOUBLEPOST=1394879133][/DOUBLEPOST]

for spawn and stuff and maybe prison i would like to be able to use chisel, since it has a looooooot of blocks to make stuff look nice/cool/awesome. Also, but beside the point, i would like to make a modded parkour map with the mods, (but the MUHC has of course a higher priority) and thsi should be accounted with (but i want to say it and if someone objects it is easier for me to know now than later).
And when the players die it is safer to sent them to another dimension and make a nice prison there, with stuff to kill the time idk.
But with your other points i agree, and you have valid points.[DOUBLEPOST=1394878415][/DOUBLEPOST]
can't we nerf all the spawners?

The aesthetics mods I removed, were Bibliocraft, Carpenter's Blocks and Chisel, would you like these back?

 

[keybounce]

Hunger overhaul? That makes plain survival too hard. (Magic farm experience here, and that actually has HO turned down from a 4x factor to a 2x factor on crop growth).

The rest of those new mods I don't know well enough to comment.

===

One thing that I missed on my first "hide in the nether" idea: You have natura in there. Vanilla's nether is easy to hide out in, and you can dig down below the lava zone; solid netherrack, and netherores gives you resources.

Natura changes the nether to the point that there's much less netherrack, it tends to be within the lava area, and there's more ... "painful" stuff in the nether. But, it also gives you wood in the nether ...

 

[Mevansuto]

Hunger overhaul? That makes plain survival too hard. (Magic farm experience here, and that actually has HO turned down from a 4x factor to a 2x factor on crop growth).

The rest of those new mods I don't know well enough to comment.

===

One thing that I missed on my first "hide in the nether" idea: You have natura in there. Vanilla's nether is easy to hide out in, and you can dig down below the lava zone; solid netherrack, and netherores gives you resources.

Natura changes the nether to the point that there's much less netherrack, it tends to be within the lava area, and there's more ... "painful" stuff in the nether. But, it also gives you wood in the nether ...

Hunger Overhaul has extremely modular configs. I won't use it to affect crop growth (might actually speed it up). Most of the really hard features maybe disabled, but at least people will need a stable source of food.

Do you consider Natura a good or bad addition?

 

[keybounce]

I'm not familiar enough with Natura. I have not seen it alone.

What I think I see as being "natura" and not something else:
1. Berry bushes. No effect on UHC.
2. Nastier nether. Not as safe a hiding place in UHC.

Truth is, I don't know what things I've seen come from Natura, Pam's harvestcraft, Hostile worlds, Tinkers' Construct, etc.

 

[Mevansuto]

Alright, I made a working version of the pack. However its missing in Calclavia's mods due to a crash. This is a problem as a large part of the PvP was based around the Cal's mods. Another problem is that the pack currently is 150 mods big, and I intend to add more when I can use Cal's mods. This number should be smaller. Should I remove some of the dungeon mods? Biome mods? Other dimensions?

The pack as it stands:

1. Advanced Genetics
   
   
2. Advanced Terrain Generation
   
   
3. AOBD
   
   
4. Applied Energistics
   
   
5. ARCHIMEDES' SHIPS
   
   
6. ArmorStatus HUD
   
   
7. Ars Magica 2
   
   
8. Atomic Science
   
   
9. Balkon’s Weapon Mod
   
   
10. Better Storage
    
    
11. Bibliocraft
    
    
12. Bibliowoods - Biomes O Plenty
    
    
13. Bibliowoods - Highlands
    
    
14. Bibliowoods - Natura
    
    
15. Big Reactors
    
    
16. Biomes O' Plenty
    
    
17. Blood Magic
    
    
18. Carpenter’s Blocks
    
    
19. Chisel
    
    
20. Damage Indicators
    
    
21. DartCraft
    
    
22. Deadly World
    
    
23. Dungeon Pack
    
    
24. Ender Storage
    
    
25. EnderIO
    
    
26. Engineers Toolbox
    
    
27. Enhanced Portals
    
    
28. EVOC
    
    
29. Extra Cells
    
    
30. Extra Utilities
    
    
31. Flat Signs
    
    
32. ForgeIRC
    
    
33. Galaticraft
    
    
34. Gascraft
    
    
35. Hardcore Ender Expansion
    
    
36. Harvestcraft
    
    
37. Hat Stand
    
    
38. Hats
    
    
39. Highlands
    
    
40. ICBM
    
    
41. Infernal Mobs
    
    
42. Infinity Bows
    
    
43. Inventory Tweaks
    
    
44. Jabba
    
    
45. Journey Map
    
    
46. Lava Monsters
    
    
47. Magical Crops
    
    
48. Mariculture
    
    
49. Mekanism
    
    
50. MFFS
    
    
51. Minefactory Reloaded
    
    
52. Modular Power Suit
    
    
53. Modular Power Suits Addons
    
    
54. Natura
    
    
55. NEI
    
    
56. NEI Addons
    
    
57. NEI Plugins
    
    
58. Nether Ores
    
    
59. Not Enough Keys
    
    
60. Not Enough Keys
    
    
61. ObsidiPlates
    
    
62. Open Components
    
    
63. Open Computers
    
    
64. OpenBlocks
    
    
65. Pam's Clay Spawn
    
    
66. Portal Gun
    
    
67. Project:Red
    
    
68. Railcraft
    
    
69. Railcraft Dusts
    
    
70. Redstone Arsenal
    
    
71. Remote IO
    
    
72. Resonant Induction
    
    
73. Roguelike Dungeons
    
    
74. ServerTools
    
    
75. SortFix
    
    
76. Special Mobs
    
    
77. Steve's Factory Manager
    
    
78. Thaumcraft 4
    
    
79. Thaumcraft Mob Aspects
    
    
80. Thaumic Reliquary
    
    
81. Thaumic Tinkerer
    
    
82. Thaumic Tinkerer - KAMI
    
    
83. Thermal Expansion
    
    
84. Tinkers' Construct
    
    
85. Tinkers' Mechworks
    
    
86. Translocators
    
    
87. Twilight Forest
    
    
88. Utility Mobs
    
    
89. W.A.I.L.A
    
    
90. Weather
    
    
91. Witchery
    
    
92. WRCBE
    
    
93. Xenos' Reliquary
    
    
94. Zombie Awareness
    

 

[lenscas]

Applied Energistics, hats and hats stand don't make a lot of sense for me.

 

[Mevansuto]

Applied Energistics, hats and hats stand don't make a lot of sense for me.

Hats for each team I was thinking. We could make them ourselves. Applied Energistics is difficult to justify.

 

[keybounce]

Isn't AE about using power to store stuff in small spaces?

I mean, it would let you easily move all the stuff you got in caving in one area to another area; it means that you don't have to throw anything out when you are done caving in an area.

I always thought that the question of "what to keep, what to toss" was a big factor in solo UHC, less so in team UHC.

 

[Shazam08]

94. Zombie Awareness

After reading into that one a bit, it seems evil and maybe a bit too hardcore for UHC. For one, all hostile mobs have an unlimited path finding radius. As in, they will never stop chasing you. EVER.

Let that sink in.

On top of that, players below 6 hearts drop blood every 30 seconds, which by default will attract all hostile mobs in a 64 block radius.

I will say that the idea of mobs being attracted to a large amount of arrows being fired (for example, a battle) seems cool, as does the "trail of blood" that could allow for tracking a wounded player. Perhaps if you really toned down this mod in the configs, it would work.

 

[keybounce]

Unlimited pathfinding?

Well, you can always run away, and let the monsters die with distance/time, or put up fences, etc.
The bigger issue is that unlimited pathfinding, without "can you even be sure that there is a path", can quickly turn into a CPU/memory nightmare on the server.

As for "Attract all mobs in range", that's not necessarily a bad thing. It does mean that if you can do a good scratch to someone, and that person does not have backup prayers or other healing options handy, they are in serious trouble / have to wall off. So the whole issue of "The fights will go on forever because someone can disengage, heal, and recover/return" is less of a problem -- since both players have to worry about mutual damage below 6 (Q: Is that 6 hearts, or 6 health? 6 hearts -- you start bleeding at 45% damage taken -- is fairly early/quick), both players have a desire to break off. If anything, arrow sniping / traps become a better option than normal -- bow against a sword, with distance between them, goes to the bow wielder.

===

Wait, GasCraft? Isn't that the mod that just makes mining more dangerous, with gas pockets that can explode from torches, and no real benefits from the gases themselves?

 

[Shazam08]

Well, you can always run away, and let the monsters die with distance/time, or put up fences, etc.
The bigger issue is that unlimited pathfinding, without "can you even be sure that there is a path", can quickly turn into a CPU/memory nightmare on the server.

The thing is, UHC shouldn't be a game about running away from mobs. Well... maybe werewolves or something crazy, but a horde of boring old zombies?

How lame would it be, after adding loads of ways to diversify PvP, if someone died to a zombie? People want to see interesting kills in a UHC, not ones they've seen a million times before.

As for the CPU thing, good point. It would really come into play when you have more people

(Q: Is that 6 hearts, or 6 health? 6 hearts -- you start bleeding at 45% damage taken -- is fairly early/quick)

6 hearts, which would mean they bleed at below 60% of their maximum health.

 

[keybounce]

Agreed; UHC should be about dying to players, or dying to blazes/ghasts while trying to power up.

With mobs like that, it seems to be a case of "How to mine safely, so that the mobs can't bother you". That's more-or-less how I mine normally.

But I don't do it to the zero damage level that this needs. I've been known to take 9.5 hearts while recording.

If taking damage means normal mobs will charge you and kill you, then damage becomes unsustainable unless you can recover/repair. Prayers gives you about 3-4 hearts back per day, but only one heart "now".

I suspect this would drive people to dog packs, and a few cats. That becomes a big winning strategy -- a few cats keep the creepers out, the dogs protect you from normal mobs. Lava/cliffs become the big damage for your herd. We'll see people fishing -- boring, but the only way to maintain/increase your cat heard (cat herd ... herding cats was just on Mythbusters ...), and raw meat is plentiful.

And, if I've got a dog herd, and I can sight you, then being able to land an arrow on you to activate my herd is crucial -- so we are back to bows and barks.

I'm imagining atoms with giant electron clouds trying to clobber each other, and it's all about the clouds interacting with each other.

===

I know I mentioned COG for generating veins in the past (about 2 pages back). Good/bad/desired/not?