Mekanism: why BuildCraft support will not be included in 1.6

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Yes, exactly, I'm hoping the community will pitch in here as well

Well, this is going to really hurt my mod pack... maybe even kill it. BC I can live without, but Railcraft provides a lot of the core functionalities in my mod pack. Tanks, Boilers, the different types of tracks... and I would think that CJ's own mod would use the new system he is implementing. I would hate to give that up, but I would feel that I basically had no choice at that point.

I've also been dabbling around with Mekanism on a test instance to see how well it integrates with my mod pack for inclusing in 1.6.x, and other than a quibble about Heat Generators being the only generator that doesn't require steel, and energy is required to produce steel, it works quite seamlessly. I like the different energy generation options that Mekanism offers me, and I was strongly considering including it in my mod pack.

If this does go through, I'm going to be torn... if KL sets up his own energy network, it's going to really split me. I'm trying to run a power network which works together seamlessly without needing additional conversion blocks. The primary reason I was considering Mekanism is that the power cubes, and I believe even there is even an energy cable, automatically translate into MJ, which all of my other mods use. You can hook up a Redstone Energy Conduit straight to the output slot of an Energy Cube and it'll run just fine. If that functionality goes away... well, I'll have to re-think which mods go in the mod pack, and make some really tough choices.

 

[CovertJaguar]

I denied you're request because you have yet to provide an example usage that would not be better served by interacting with a power provider as is. Like the Wooden Power Pipe does in Buildcraft. I'd be more than happy to make accommodations to the power provider to make such a design easier to implement (not that its hard now). But you've pointedly ignored that suggestion despite my pointing it out multiple times.

I repeat, what you want to do is still 100% possible, but only if you use the power provider as an intermediary rather than an event collector.

 

[Stephen Baynham]

I denied you're request because you have yet to provide an example usage that would not be better served by interacting with a power provider as is.

He did provide you an example usage, and your exact words in response were "I could care less what KL is doing with TE".

 

[Aidan]

That.....that's unfortunate.

CJ and any mod maker for that matter has the absolute right to do what he wishes with his mod (or mods that he's committed to maintaining). There are better ways to go about discussing proposed changes that you don't agree with. This whole thread was in poor taste.

What have I done wrong? After my pleas to reconsider this were shot down, and because of how much I appreciate BuildCraft's open source development, I thought I would express my exact concerns with the community I love. This "proposed" word has also come up twice now in the past few minutes, this wasn't mentioned in my conversation with CJ previously.

 

[Stephen Baynham]

That.....that's unfortunate.

CJ and any mod maker for that matter has the absolute right to do what he wishes with his mod (or mods that he's committed to maintaining). There are better ways to go about discussing proposed changes that you don't agree with. This whole thread was in poor taste.

Buildcraft is open source, it belongs to the community, it's not just Power Source For Railcraft: The Mod, as CovertJaguar likes to pretend.

 

[KirinDave]

CJ and any mod maker for that matter has the absolute right to do what he wishes with his mod (or mods that he's committed to maintaining). There are better ways to go about discussing proposed changes that you don't agree with. This whole thread was in poor taste.

Could you point me to the section where anyone said that anyone else has no right to do something? This is not about rights. This is about consequences of exercising them.

And if this thread is in poor taste, then surely the conversation in IRC was as well? If so, why? Why do you assign software developers special privileges? As an industry veteran with 14 years under my belt, I assure you most of us are not infallible. You know, this is a immature industry. Really, you should be going the opposite way.[DOUBLEPOST=1372190188][/DOUBLEPOST]

What have I done wrong? After my pleas to reconsider this were shot down, and because of how much I appreciate BuildCraft's open source development, I thought I would express my exact concerns with the community I love. This "proposed" word has also come up twice now in the past few minutes, this wasn't mentioned in my conversation with CJ previously.

Your crime is doing this in a place where non-software-types can get at it and misunderstand it. I sort of agree that the tagline that non-coders will take is, "CJ is killing buildcraft power."

 

[Aidan]

Your crime is doing this in a place where non-software-types can get at it and misunderstand it. I sort of agree that the tagline that non-coders will take is, "CJ is killing buildcraft power."

You're very right.

 

[CovertJaguar]

Perhaps you might want to explain the concrete benefits to the community, since the drawbacks have been so clearly elucidated. Don't hold back. A whole lot of people in this thread are happy to drone on about any number of CS topics at length.

Currently the BC power net suffers from distribution quirks because everyone is implementing their own versions of these functions. I consolidated the code and moved things around so that people would not be required to do that. And I get blasted for it!

He did provide you an example usage, and your exact words in response were "I could care less what KL is doing with TE".

I admit, I don't. But KL hasn't come demanding that I change anything yet either. For all I know he agrees with the change. I haven't looked at the TE code, and no one provided any links to such. I only saw how Aidan was using it and provided him an alternative implementation. He is rejecting it without explaining why.

 

[Virgoddess]

What have I done wrong? After my pleas to reconsider this were shot down, and because of how much I appreciate BuildCraft's open source development, I thought I would express my exact concerns with the community I love. This "proposed" word has also come up twice now in the past few minutes, this wasn't mentioned in my conversation with CJ previously.

Isn't everything "proposed" until it's in the players hands?

By posting this thread, you're starting the he said/she said mentality. People, in general, see things, freak out and get angry without knowing the entire story, of which there are at least two sides, with the truth somewhere in the middle.

You know what I, an average user, got from this thread? "I don't like a change someone might make, so I'm taking my toys and going home". Considering I've never played with your mod before, you can imagine my first impression of you.

If you're okay with that, more power to you. I'm certainly not telling you how to act. I'm just telling you how it comes across to *me*.

 

[Aidan]

For all I know he agrees with the change.

For all I know KL has not been online since you suggested the change. I'd like to see how he responds to his power framework being deemed unusable.

 

[Virgoddess]

That is the worst mash-up of run on sentences I've ever typed. Apologies.[DOUBLEPOST=1372190630][/DOUBLEPOST]

Could you point me to the section where anyone said that anyone else has no right to do something? This is not about rights. This is about consequences of exercising them.

And if this thread is in poor taste, then surely the conversation in IRC was as well? If so, why? Why do you assign software developers special privileges? As an industry veteran with 14 years under my belt, I assure you most of us are not infallible. You know, this is a immature industry. Really, you should be going the opposite way.

It has nothing to do with mod makers, and everything to do with human beings. I don't think threads calling out people in an effort to shame them into doing something you want is *ever* in good taste. Please don't assume my intentions.

 

[Aidan]

Isn't everything "proposed" until it's in the players hands?

By posting this thread, you're starting the he said/she said mentality. People, in general, see things, freak out and get angry without knowing the entire story, of which there are at least two sides, with the truth somewhere in the middle.

You know what I, an average user, got from this thread? "I don't like a change someone might make, so I'm taking my toys and going home". Considering I've never played with your mod before, you can imagine my first impression of you.

If you're okay with that, more power to you. I'm certainly not telling you how to act. I'm just telling you how it comes across to *me*.

I came to the FTB community because you all usually tend to look at a mod individually, and the way it interacts with others in a modded Minecraft environment. Coming here signified my concern for the well-being of BuildCraft, and how this change could affect users just like you in the end. I don't think CovertJaguar really understands the significance of what he's doing yet.

 

[Siro]

Let a man mod!

 

[Virgoddess]

I came to the FTB community because you all usually tend to look at a mod individually, and the way it interacts with others in a modded Minecraft environment. Coming here signified my concern for the well-being of BuildCraft, and how this change could affect users just like you in the end. I don't think CovertJaguar really understands the significance of what he's doing yet.

Your intentions aside, the average FTB user has no real idea what you're talking about, so mostly it sounds like this will destroy BC and everyone should blame Covert for it.

I'll bow out now, lest I be called a fangirl and more words be put into my mouth

 

[Aidan]

Your intentions aside, the average FTB user has no real idea what you're talking about, so mostly it sounds like this will destroy BC and everyone should blame Covert for it.

I'll bow out now, lest I be called a fangirl and more words be put into my mouth

You're fine, I definitely see your perspective.

 

[Shirkit]

Can someone point me out which commits are you guys talking about?

 

[CovertJaguar]

Still waiting for the explanation as to why you are rejecting alternative implementations. The Wooden Power Pipe does exactly, I repeat EXACTLY, what you are trying to do with your wires. You could practically copy/paste the Wooden Power Pipe code into your wire class and have it work first try. I've done nothing that will harm your mod, except force you to think outside the box.

 

[Krapht]

Don't try to push this on CJ, all he has done is to take BC power closer to where we want it to be. BC power has been corrupted from its original intent over time and is no longer different enough from other energy systems. We want to change that. BC power should not be yet another power system where you count your 'energy units'.

We have no intention of forcing bc-integrated mods to be addons, but we do want to have somewhat control of how the BuildCraft power framework is used. We feel there is room for more than a single type of power framework, that leaves other mods the option to choose one that most fit how they envision their mod.

Don't get me started of mod "competition", there is no such thing as 'better'. It is not exactly hard to make mods 'better' in the views of the player. All you have to do is give them more stuff for less. If multiple mods keeps 1-upping each other we will quickly see a tech mod scene that is basically creative mode. This journey has already started, but I don't want BC to participate in what is most likely the eventual fall of tech mods. I know that players do want to be able to count every single 'energy unit' and hates any type of waste, but that is not how we see buildcraft power.

That said, the power changes are still not final, but we sure as hell will not be bullied to make changes

Edit: Spelling

 

[RedBoss]

Are these changes good for devs or good for players? Both? Why? That's all I really care about.

 

[Hyperme]

Still waiting for the explanation as to why you are rejecting alternative implementations. The Wooden Power Pipe does exactly, I repeat EXACTLY, what you are trying to do with your wires. You could practically copy/paste the Wooden Power Pipe code into your wire class and have it work first try. I've done nothing that will harm your mod, except force you to think outside the box.

Thermal Expansion conduits are (apparently) computationally superior to regular Buildcraft pipes. Moving inferior code into TE may very well remove the efficiency, and from what I've read, King Lemming loves his computational efficiency. There's also the fact that once you've coded something and works, having to recode it because the API had features completely removed is hardly constructive use of time.

Also people might not trust you given your comments about interacting your terms because DRM in mod. The hell really?