Let's talk about RF

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Pyure

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Aug 14, 2013
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What is the difference in the Thermal Dynamics pipes? Sometimes these things aren't that easy to decipher from a wiki.
Two things I liked about BC were the different materials not connecting to each other, so I can pack them in, and the diamond sorting pipes are very simple to work with. Does Thermal Dynamics have an answer there?
The tooltips for the TD pipes/covers are usually pretty informative. You may have to hold shift to see the whole text (I forget)

I am actually a massive fan of the TD logistics, even though I don't get to use them much (they're not in the packs I play). The key to them is servos (and stuff that act like servos, such as Retrievers)

Retrievers in particular are amazing. You can connect a TD pipe to a machine, put a retriever on it, and instruct the retriever to always keep, say, 48 coal in the machine. It will use all inventories on that pipe network to find coal and pull it in. Insanely useful.

Servos do the opposite and are more conventional: they pull items out of an attached inventory. The tier of the servo determines how powerful it is: how many items it will extract, how robust the whitelist is. I forget whether tricks such as metadata and nbt are tier-specific but I'm pretty sure they're accommodated.

I don't know that TD has anything exactly like the diamond filtering pipe where items are redirected at intersections. But given retrievers and servos, where your inventories know what they want to accept/send, there's not much of a use-case for them. (Also, some ducts don't transport items naturally like BC pipes do. There are instant-transporting ducts as well)
 
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Drbretto

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So, if I'm reading that right, I could, for example, have the pipe wrap around the room, and put a retriever on each chest it connects to, and the retriever will pull the proper items and let the rest pass?

If I've got that right, then I will get started on TD immediately. And I'll be reading the wiki on it all day at work, lol

Edit: Though, technically could do that with diamond pipes now that I think about it.
 

Pyure

Not Totally Useless
Aug 14, 2013
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So, if I'm reading that right, I could, for example, have the pipe wrap around the room, and put a retriever on each chest it connects to, and the retriever will pull the proper items and let the rest pass?

If I've got that right, then I will get started on TD immediately. And I'll be reading the wiki on it all day at work, lol

Edit: Though, technically could do that with diamond pipes now that I think about it.

You could have a pipe wrap around a room connected to a bunch of chests and machines. You could configure the retrievers to "pull" the items they need from the chests. I believe a configured retriever blocks other items from entering that side of the machine, so nothing would passively enter.
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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Another great reply!

What is the difference in the Thermal Dynamics pipes? Sometimes these things aren't that easy to decipher from a wiki.

Two things I liked about BC were the different materials not connecting to each other, so I can pack them in, and the diamond sorting pipes are very simple to work with. Does Thermal Dynamics have an answer there?
Actually, the only materials that would not connect are cobblestone and smoothstone pipes, everything else would connect. However, Thermal Dynamics has a VERY easy solution:

A Duct can be wrenched to permit, or deny, connectivity between two ducts. So, for example, you have an item duct carrying stuff from your mob grinder, and an item duct carrying stuff from your quarry, and don't want them to mix. Wrench the connection, and they disconnect. Easy peasy.

Now, as far as sorting, Thermal Dynamics is almost as good as Logistic Pipes, and beats the pants off of Diamond Pipes.

There's ALWAYS a logic behind sorting, and it is Closest Valid Inventory. Whatever inventory is the closest, that's where it goes. You have restriction and vacuum pipes which can help you manipulate this. So basically, if you want to compare it to a system, compare it to RP2's old Tube system, because it is FAR closer to that in functionality. It will *NEVER* spit items out into the world, it will 'backstuff' one iteration, then the rest will bounce back to inventory of origin, to await a valid inventory becoming available. This also prevents it from pulling anything else out and clogging the system even worse. For this alone, it is superior to BC Pipes, albeit more expensive to craft (itemducts require tin and either lead or hardened glass, liquiducts require copper and either lead or hardened glass, whereas pipes just require cobble and glass). But there's even more sorting functionality available.

First off, there's the Servo. It pulls stuff out of the adjacent inventory. Think of it as the Autarchic Gate, if you like. You can also whitelist or blacklist items to pull. So, for example, you can pull coal but not dirt from an inventory, or you can pull everything that isn't dirt.

Filters do what you expect, and are put on destination chests. Basically, it says what can or cannot go in the inventory, based on the whitelist or blacklist. So you could put a Filter on your Trash Can and say 'only dirt, sand, cobble, and gravel can go in here'.

Retrievers are a bit more complicated. Even lower-tier retrieves basically say 'Anything that is on my white list/not on my blacklist that is in any inventory attached to this duct network gets pulled in here'. So, for example, you want a failsafe to pull all dirt out of all your storage chests in case any gets in there. Putting a Retriever whitelisting Dirt on a trash can will do the job. However, it gets better. Signalum and Enderium Retrievers have LP Supplier Pipe functionality, basically saying 'keep x of these items in this inventory at all times'. So say you're using MFR's Biofuel Generator, that needs nine discreet items all stocked for max efficiency, but it only has nine slots and you don't want to 'jam' it with multiple stacks of the same item, you can use a Signalum Retriever to say 'I want exactly a half stack of each of these nine items in this inventory at all times, and pull from any connected inventory to maintain this, if possible'. That way, even if you run out of something, the slot will remain empty in case it comes back.

Personally, I'm a huge fan of Thermal Dynamics. I feel it completely replaces, and significantly improves upon, the BC Pipe concept.
 

Drbretto

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Mar 5, 2016
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I will definitely work towards making that transition. For right now, I'm going to finish my current project with the buildcraft stuff since it's already started. But I will absolutely slowly retire all things BC after this building.

Keep in mind I've never even built an assembly table, so a good portion of all that you just said is gibberish to me right now, lol. I've only used simple BC pipes so far.
 

Pyure

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Aug 14, 2013
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Personally, I'm a huge fan of Thermal Dynamics. I feel it completely replaces, and significantly improves upon, the BC Pipe concept.

Fantastic info Shneekey.

I'll also add, very subjectively, that on top of being very versatile it still somehow maintains a sort of old-school feel to it that I really enjoy (that's missing from stuff like EnderIO for instance)
 

Drbretto

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I gotta say, if not for this thread, and special thanks for shneeky but that's for everyone. I don't think I'd have ever bothered moving on from BC without all this stuff. I'm actually kind of excited to try out the thermal dynamics pipes.

Fantastic info Shneekey.

I'll also add, very subjectively, that on top of being very versatile it still somehow maintains a sort of old-school feel to it that I really enjoy (that's missing from stuff like EnderIO for instance)


Especially because of the bolded. I watched a vid or two, and it satisfies the same basic feel I liked about buildcraft, but looks like I can make some much cleaner builds with it. I wanna go home and play!
 

Inaeo

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Jul 29, 2019
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Since you're planning on playing with the Thermal Expansion suite, I'll throw out one more thing that I think goes completely under the radar: Viaducts. Rather than transporting items in tubes, they transport players. You can name each destination and when you r-click on the entrance, it lists all available destinations on the network. Zipping around your base in tubes is more fun than I can even describe, and other than the mob drop dependency, they are actually quite cheap to make (once you have basic infrastructure in place, of course). Figured if I plant the seed early in your world, it would be easier than trying to introduce it into existing structures.
 

KingTriaxx

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A couple of notes: Shneekey is right about the Mekanism power storage being worse than other options, with one exception. Energy Cubes can drain power from items. The others all rely on generation, but if you need to provide a bit of power to kick start a set of generators, even the basic energy cube can draw it from whatever you've got with power in it, and feed it into the system. So firing up the Vats from EnderIO, or the Ethylene production setup from Mekanism, can be done just by plonking down an empty cube and draining power from your Tinker's tool, or Flux Capacitor.

Speaking of Logistic's Pipes, there was an option at one point to use Thermal Dynamics ducts in place of BC pipes, it's gotta be turned on in the configs I believe, and was still experimental, but should work.

If your pack has Immersive Engineering, another storage option is Zetta Industries, which adds a huge fluid based battery.

Speaking of, Immersive Engineering is another excellent option for power generation. It's got Watermills early on that generate a small, but continuous stream of power. Windmills are basically the same as those from Mekanism, though they don't produce quite as much power, and have to be spread out a bit or they stop working entirely. Then you get to move up to the Diesel Generator, which runs on biodiesel, produced from growables, meaning it's totally renewable.

Blowing them all out of the water though, is Advanced Generators. It runs on either steam produced from other mods or itself, or basically any fuel you've generated through other mods. BC Oil, BC Fuel, IE Biodiesel, even EnderIO rocket fuel I believe. But it's also customizable. You can build iron or bronze turbines early, produce just a couple hundred RF/t, or later on move to Enderium Turbines producing 500RF/t, for every block, and it can have up to 50 of them per generator multi-block structure. There's also no fixed shape for it. As long as they share a face, it'll count as part of the structure.

Buildcraft isn't completely obsolete. It does have some cool features that other mods struggle to duplicate. The floodgate for filling areas with fluids, which has been done a couple times, but I can't name any that are current. The auto-workbench is slow yes, but it also doesn't require power to run, which most of the other auto crafting options do. And the BC chute is extremely fast at dumping items into inventories, which makes for a good buffer no matter what system you're using to dump the items into it.

I also prefer the slow and steady look of the BC quarry to the crazy fast, but visually less interesting EnderQuarry, but that's personal preference.
 
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Robijnvogel

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Wasn't there a way to transport energy along LogisticsPipes as well?

What turbines produce more RF/mB of steam? Advanced Generators' or Big Reactors'?

Sent from my torture dungeon in the hills of Mumbai.
 

KingTriaxx

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Yes, but it's hilariously expensive.

I honestly don't know the exact numbers on steam consumption. Some part of it depends on the settings for Big Reactors, and what blocks the turbine is built from. I know Big Reactors maxes out at 2000mb/t consumption, I have an Advanced Generator happily eating 5000mb/t.
 

Inaeo

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Yes, but it's hilariously expensive.

I honestly don't know the exact numbers on steam consumption. Some part of it depends on the settings for Big Reactors, and what blocks the turbine is built from. I know Big Reactors maxes out at 2000mb/t consumption, I have an Advanced Generator happily eating 5000mb/t.

Maxed out BR Turbine ate 2000mb/t to produce just over 27kRF/t in FTB Infinity (pre-Evolved). My comparisons using Advanced Generators in FTB Inventions showed AG to be lower RF/mb, but the AG multiblock had enough advantages for me to accept the drop. From my testing, MFR and TE combined with either to allow for an infinite power loop, so the difference ended up being moot after a point.
 

Robijnvogel

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What was the block count on the maxed out BR turbine?

I used to know this by heart. If my memory serves me right, the complete max efficiency Turbine was 7x7x17 blocks in size, allowing for 4 upright turbines next each other per chunk.
49 * 2 + 24 * 15 blocks for the outside 15 + 10 *4 blocks for the blades and the axis and 36 blocks of Enderium (or Ludicrite if you wanted to go that far)

The consideration between BR and AG is probably about cost (resources and time) to create as well as efficiency in terms of RF/mB, processor load (I don't know about AG, but BR actually renders the rotation of the Turbine blade), and the space the actual Turbine takes up in your world.
 

Robijnvogel

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AG doesn't, and I think you can fit two 50 turbine setups into the space of one BR turbine.
Honestly, I think that you can possibly fit 10 randomly shaped multi-block structures of 50 blocks (that are not touching each other) into the shape of that BR turbine.
You can fit at least 8 "plate-shaped" 50-block multiblocks.
 

Inaeo

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Footprint is definitely smaller on an AG setup than a BR Turbine. RF/steam is better on a BR Turbine. It's a give and take, in my eyes. Either is capable of outputting large power numbers, but the one major advantage I see in the AG multiblock is the ability to grow it one block at a time as your energy needs mount. BR would have you redesign your Turbine every time you wanted to add to it, then wait for it to spin up to a usable level.
 

Robijnvogel

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May 8, 2013
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Footprint is definitely smaller on an AG setup than a BR Turbine. RF/steam is better on a BR Turbine. It's a give and take, in my eyes. Either is capable of outputting large power numbers, but the one major advantage I see in the AG multiblock is the ability to grow it one block at a time as your energy needs mount. BR would have you redesign your Turbine every time you wanted to add to it, then wait for it to spin up to a usable level.

I always use my Big Reactor for RF directly until I have enough resources to build the max size Big Turbine, after which I switch the Reactor to water cooled and steam producing. And by the time I need more power I usually have enough resources to build a second Big Turbine etc. Sounds boring, doesn't it?
By the way, one of the other downsides to Big Turbines is that they need time to speed up. The water re-use doesn't really make up for that.

Has anyone here tried NuclearCraft though? I've heard that that mod is pretty interesting as well.