Keep of Metal and Gold (in-development mod)

[Loufmier]

Aye, one of the functions I was planning on including in a VAO was a machine maintenance core. Also, the damage won't be extremely fast, unless you do something terribly wrong like not lubricating the engines in your generators. Like, for an otherwise well-maintained basic machine, the components will last...around 2, maybe 3 Minecraft weeks before the degradation gets to the point where it harms performance. I want my mod's machines to be able to be fully automated, I just want the player to have to work for it, ya know?

so, you`re basically talking about running cost, like IC2 nuclear reactors?

 

[RavynousHunter]

so, you`re basically talking about running cost, like IC2 nuclear reactors?

More or less, aye. Again, barring circumstances of extreme neglect, you shouldn't notice a drop in machine performance from wear and metal fatigue for some time. If I'm not mistaken, IC2 LZH Condensators can be "recharged" by crafting them with lapis, a similar mechanic would be at play here, as well. To keep things simple, I think I'll have a set of items simply termed "Spare [Material] [Machine Type] Parts," like "Spare Gold Engine Parts." Just craft those with your gold engine, and a certain amount of metal fatigue and wear will be undone...methinks I'll make that configurable, with the default being -20% metal fatigue, -33% wear. This way, you can craft a stack of spare parts beforehand, and they'll last you a fair while. I also plan on making it so other mods can interface with my machines and such, especially Applied Energistics. This way, if you're working with a pack (like FTB), you'll be able to run the automation system of your choice, and not solely rely on in-mod methods of automation. Tis more like the in-mod automation methods will be, of course, tailor-made to handle common tasks.

Also, I think I've come up with a series of machines that will comprise my ore multiplication system, in order of lowest tier to highest:

1. Ore Tumbler: A simple, low-power machine that tumbles like ores together, causing the blocks to abrade one another, reducing them to powder. Ore powder production rate similar to the multiplication rate found in Factorization slag furnaces.
2. Ore Sieve: Filters smaller dirt particulates out of the ore, creating filtered ore powder, a cleaner, more mineral-rich powder compared to the regular tumbler powder. Brings ore bonus to +50%.
3. Ore Washer: Washes the filtered ore powder with plain water, removing more dirt, yielding washed ore powder. Brings bonus to +100%.
4. Ore Chemical Bath: Similar to the washer, except it uses special acids to remove almost all impurities from the powder, yielding refined ore powder. Brings bonus to +125%.
5. Ore Electroplating Machine: The final, most power-hungry step of ore processing. Using a cathode/anode setup, targeted for a specific metal (all handled automatically, so no need to set manually!), this machine breaks the pure metal off from the refined powder and electroplates it into an ingot cast, resulting in the purest product possible. Yields regular old ingots and brings the bonus to its final value, +150%.

Note that, at any step, the results can easily be put into a furnace of your choice and smelted just like any other pulverized/macerated ores from other mods. This, of course, excludes electroplating, which basically works the same as a furnace, anyway, giving you proper ingots. Also, gem ores can only be put thru the tumbler and sieve, and double these values for any applicable hell ores.

 

[naughtyfins]

The electroplating machine sounds like it might be interesting to have as some sort of multiblock structure. Some sort of container for your refined power in the middle with a big steam powered magnet thingy at each side.

I really love steampunk/magipunk stuff because for me it fits in better with the "feel" of minecraft. I'll be waiting eagerly for this!

 

[Hydra]

Err. Isn't that a more or less exact copy of what Factorization does? You know, that mod that's in the pack but no one actually uses for ore processing?

 

[RavynousHunter]

Err. Isn't that a more or less exact copy of what Factorization does? You know, that mod that's in the pack but no one actually uses for ore processing?

What can I say? I like the concept. However, if you've got more than one of the machines, you can place them adjacent to one another (in a line or rectangle, just have to be connected physically) and they'll self-automate. Like, say you've got...

TS
WC
E
 
T = Tumbler; S = Sieve; W = Washer; C = Chemical Bath; E = Electroplating Machine

That setup in your base. All you'd need is pipes for input on the tumbler, and output on the electroplating machine. The rest will work together without any other extra machinery! Think of it along the lines of a multi-block structure with each part serving a technically different function, but working together as a single unit. No routers, pipes, tubes, or AE intervention required, it'll handle things from beginning to end all on its own!

That, I think, is what will set it apart from the rest. A simple, true, set-and-forget system. Just make sure its got power, and that the washer and chemical bath have their requisite fluids, and you'll only ever have to work directly with the raw ores, and the finished ingots.

 

[Harvest88]

And also supplying annoying parts.. For 50% more ore than a marcetor that have 0 "running cost" I don't think it's worth the hassles. A Industrial Grinder from GT does more than a marcetor and only need water as the grinding medium is a good way to "end game" process your ores without worrying about pumping oil for lubricating your machines and having to chew metals for replacement parts. So my point is I don't like things that requires the extra miles and then you don't even get the extra miles. Like the crappy IC2 reactors. You have to invest a ton for it and keeping it running but doesn't put much power at all. You can't make EV reactors anymore unless if your going to be melting coolant cells all day long and be burning copper plates for those quads.

 

[Loufmier]

And also supplying annoying parts.. For 50% more ore than a marcetor that have 0 "running cost" I don't think it's worth the hassles. .

i guess you`re right, when there is a mod in a pack, that has no running cost, it most likely be preferred.
but since mod is still in development, that is subject to change. wearing fatigue, wasnt approved to cause machine to jam/break apart, i expect that those new parts, would work as forestry frames works - boost production rate till expire.
if that would be the case, i personally hope so, i`d like to tinker with and automate that setup

 

[RavynousHunter]

I am going to have this mod be able to interface with/use other mods, but that doesn't mean I expect others to run it exclusively as part of a pack. It'll have enough to merit it being used alone alongside nothing but Forge and vanilla Minecraft, that's how almost ALL mods are designed. If you spend your time obsessing about what other mods do and trying to fit your vision into theirs, it stops being your vision, and becomes a perversion.

There's a difference between taking cues and inspiration from other mods, and letting them rule yours. The latter's only okay if your mod's an add-on.

Again, you make it sound like you'll be replacing parts every 5 minutes. Let me repeat, you will not have to replace them every femtosecond. You won't even have to replace them half as often as IC2 reactor components. Real machines don't break after 5 minutes of use unless they were made by highly-skilled Chinese babies. Proper machines are built to last, they have the durability to endure at least sub-optimal conditions for a good amount of time before the wear becomes a problem. Even with the crappy, water-based lubes, you won't have to be sitting over your machines constantly, and there are some that have 0 running cost; those are the machines that are critical for early-game success, namely the lubricant processor. Now, giving the lube processor power does make it run faster, and it can do more than just water-based lubes, but from the get-go, all it needs is water and a little time.

Some parts will, as Loufmier said, boost efficiency. Some will be an outright, no-cost boost, while some will come with drawbacks, like using gold to make your generator housing. It'll have excellent conductivity, but its durability will be greatly reduced, because real gold is malleable to an absurd degree, but it does make for an incredible conductor and that's one of its primary uses in modern electronics.

To reiterate, so long as you give your parts that need lube even basic, rudimentary lube, they'll last at least 24 real-world hours or so before you start noticing a hit to the machine's efficiency. One repair job a literal day? I don't get how that's a lot to ask. Within 24 hours, a lot of players have built up enough resources that one part job won't impact their resources greatly. That's the whole point. Early on, you can immediately build whatever spare parts you'll need for your machines, and they'll last you a long time. Its meant to encourage preparation and planning.

 

[Loufmier]

one repair once 24 hour sounds reasonable. my only concern is, what if i havent repaired my machine in quite some time, and it worn off completely, will it jam or break? will there be something outside machine`s gui to show machines condition? like external sensor or something?

 

[RavynousHunter]

Mhm, I plan on having both visual and audio warning for when a machine's nearing its end. It won't break or stop, but it'll slow down a LOT. So long as they stay reasonably lubed, your parts will never truly break, but leaving it unattended for too long (before automation) will spell performance degradation.

 

[Kocyk]

How about adjustable transformers that would work as sort of speed upgrade for some machines? You could manipulate the output current manually by removing or adding coils. At higher values machines would work faster, but at the cost of higher energy consumption and faster overheating/using more lubricant.

Did you started coding or you are just gathering ideas for now?

 

[RavynousHunter]

Tis just in the planning phase, for now. I'm a little under 3 weeks away from moving some 1,000 miles, so most of my energy's going toward that, at the moment.

 

[Harvest88]

Okay good god this isn't going to be like IC2 reactor replacing parts. I will at least give this a world then and will there be high end parts and high end lubes that really built to last? So like those Iridium reflectors in IC2 reactors being like built to last reflectors but the drawback that they're very hard to make and time consuming just to get one of them.

 

[RavynousHunter]

Mhm! I think the highest tier lube you'll be able to acquire will be teflon, as for high-end parts and machines, definitely. I want a nice range of things to do for all stages of play.

 

[RavynousHunter]

I've been, amongst other more serious things, thinking about VAOs and what kind of varieties there will be for my mod, and I think I may have come up with something interesting that'd be fairly nifty: Companion VAOs. They're about as large as a vanilla iron golem, but have the strength and durability to match. Also, there's two reasons for their increased size: storage capacity, and I want you to be able to get on their shoulders and literally have a golem piggyback ride, with you as the jockey!

I'd also like to introduce a new crop: grapes. They grow like vines, but can be picked like Natura (I think, forget if its that or one of the other mods on Forgecraft) berry bushes. They'll need a solid block to climb up and grow, as well. Why grapes, specifically? One word: wine. In my mind, steampunk's always been a somewhat Victorian affair, and one thing that conjures an image of the Victorian era is fine wines. I'll have my own machines available to make the grape juice and ferment it, but I'd also like to add the ability to do the same thing with Forestry squeezers and fermenters. And, yes, farming VAOs will be able to work with grapes. You can have an automated, VAO run, fine winery if you so wish. I'll even include wine glasses (full and empty) that you can set down on top of blocks, to give your place a true touch of class.

 

[GPuzzle]

You know, one thing I'd find interesting in that mod of yours would be if it was really centered around early chemistry/early eletricity/steampunk. I love Factorization's system of ore processing (rather than crushing the ores and smelting them directly, you actually have a semi-realistic process that can be fully automated) and that's something I'd find really interesting. Like, I dunno, microscopes? From rudimentary to decent to scientific and anywhere in between. And with a research tree similar to TC3...
Like this:
Water in a rudimentary microscope: Seems preety decent as a cheap lubrificator. It can also be used to amplify stuff, apparently.
Water in a rudimentary electric testing system (a small pot with a pair of wires that produce eletricity): It appears to conduct eletricity.
Water in a rudimentary furnace (kinda like RC's boilers, just that it is used to check vaporing/smelting temperature): It produces steam, which can be used to move gears and produce movement.
Water in a rudimentary cooler (used to check freezing temperature): It freezes, turning into a block and expanding its area.

At the end, you should have a periodic table with annotations about ores, liquids and stuff.

 

[RavynousHunter]

I was considering whether or not I'd go the TC3 route, in regards to research. I'd definitely love to have a book that basically acts as in-game documentation and reference material that you can pick up and use without ever having to switch screens between Minecraft and your browser.

I may make a compromise between TC3 and regular "craft it, given that you know the recipe" systems. Like, some things are fairly obvious: heating water makes it boil and steam can drive things like turbines to make electricity. I may go a step further and hide some recipes in NEI, but make them still useable from the get-go if you know 'em, like the elemental arrows and such; they're a relatively simple concept, but not readily obvious.

However, I do like the idea of a kind of rudimentary scientific/mystical research, where you can put certain things in like, say, oak saplings, and attach your research desk to various machines nearby to see how saplings can be used and/or processed, which can lead to discoveries like bio-lubricants or combine them with mystical research on earth crystals and discover, say, a block that'd increase crop growth speeds...maybe even increase their yields, so you could have something like a Fortune effect in a certain radius around the block (maybe...9x9x9 or so?), but doesn't alter their fundamental mechanics, allowing normal automation to proceed unhindered. Sengir's done something similar with grafters, they give you a large boost (dunno if its 100% or not, though) to your chance to get saplings from breaking leaves, so I don't see why it couldn't apply to things like apples or wheat.

[ETA]

Prolly tooting my own horn a bit, but the more I look at it, the more in love I get with the idea of true class in Minecraft. Thaumcraft comes fairly close, but its all got an arcane feel to it, more along the lines of something you'd find in a mage's tower, and not in, say, a lord's manor. Hell, I'm tempted to have an entire module dedicated to JUST adding a ton of class to Minecraft: area rugs, carpet, decorative chairs and thrones, actual tables, chandeliers, crystal/gold goblets, dining plates, candelabras, sconces, just...a TON of decorative (and maybe some functional) luxury items you can place in the world. Turn a simple base into a manor fit for a king, so friend and foe alike can come to your home and stand in awe of its splendor, refinement, and luxury.

Lord Steve of Minecraftia, your manor awaits.

 

[GPuzzle]

I'd rather go with the following idea:
Some stuff (taking IC2 mining laser as an example) are preety damn obvious.
It would be like this:
"Mixed Metal Alloy: Resistent enough to support MV-Voltage... Not sure about HV, though."
"Energy Crystal (requires gem and redstone research): The conductability of redstone apparently can be use to hold energy given a gem to store it..."
And if you get the recipe right (minigame/simply by memory, if you already know it) you get a mining laser:
"The energy protection of the Mixed Metal Alloy centers the energy from two Energy Crystals into a laser that is able to mine objects, but can also be used as a weapon"

Just really simplified here.

 

[RavynousHunter]

Aye, I get what you're trying to go for there, but what is and isn't obvious depends on what context you're talking about: in-game, or metagame. Using your example, a laser might be obvious to the player in the metagame sense, but it wouldn't be obvious to the character. The latter context is the one I'd prefer to operate under. I mean, if you look at it from Steve's point of view, he's just been plopped down into a world and his only real idea of what to do first is basic shelter and tools. Knowing how to manipulate redstone would require, in the in-game sense, a lot of trial and error to understand its underlying mechanics and how to make it useful.

Tis a fuzzy line, granted, but if ya want it to be good, you've got to know precisely where to draw it.

 

[Adonis0]

I'm in favor of this research system
Follows more logically than TC3 in my opinion. A good little brain teaser is always nice, so long as it's not obscure.