Is there an objectively best power source?

[DoctorOr]

Power Converters' steam ratio is based on the Steam:MJ ratio in Railcraft. The Steam:EU ratio is a consequence of that and the (fairly well-established) MJ:EU ratio.

1MJ:2.5EU may be "well established" but it's recockulous in the face of 512EU/t solar power on the EU side.

Both systems are trivial to use for low power. Slap down a generator or sterling engine or 12 and feed with coal (or planks...). Middle power systems are where MJ shines with the boiler, giving 144MJ per 63 block (plus conduits) "machine". But then you start up the solar power tree on the EU side and leave that sort of generation in the dust.

In some game with solar disabled, you can still generate 360EU (equiv to 144MJ) in a 7block nuclear reactor that is 100% safe and can be automated with something as simple as an emerald pipe.

 

[DoctorOr]

2.5 stacks of UU matter from one 25 Million EU strike? sounds like you don't have the standard gregtech cost for UU matter (16m EU per UU). That sounds about right for the cost after the mass fabricator is enabled or default IC2 value is set.

Who told you 25m per strike? Take them out back and beat them with a hose for lying to you.

Try 2.5 billion

I:MatterFabricationRate=16666666

 

[Peppe]

1MJ:2.5EU may be "well established" but it's recockulous in the face of 512EU/t solar power on the EU side.

Both systems are trivial to use for low power. Slap down a generator or sterling engine or 12 and feed with coal (or planks...). Middle power systems are where MJ shines with the boiler, giving 144MJ per 63 block (plus conduits) "machine". But then you start up the solar power tree on the EU side and leave that sort of generation in the dust.

In some game with solar disabled, you can still generate 360EU (equiv to 144MJ) in a 7block nuclear reactor that is 100% safe and can be automated with something as simple as an emerald pipe.

Trying to understand what you are saying. EU to MJ should be reduced because EU scales faster/higher than MJ?

Bio-reactor + bio-generator bring high density power to MJ networks.

 

[PonyKuu]

Trying to understand what you are saying. EU to MJ should be reduced because EU scales faster/higher than MJ?

No. Solar panels just should take more space. ^_~

 

[Peppe]

Who told you 25m per strike? Take them out back and beat them with a hose for lying to you.

Try 2.5 billion

Greg told me that:

10/17/2012 V1.31a http://forum.industrial-craft.net/index.php?page=Thread&postID=80720#post80720
Added Supercondensator, which is a SUPA-DUPA-ULTRA-MEGA=>QEV-and-backwards-Transformer. Normal = anything=>8192 EU/t and Redstoned = anything=>1000000EU/t.
Buffed Lightningrod after adding said Supercondensator as Component of it. Now 25 Million EU per strike instead of just 10 Million.
Mostly got rid of the Standardrecipesystem and switched completely to the IC²-Recipesystem (except for the Slabcombinationrecipes, which i never mentioned before).

Everything is subject to change without notice, so maybe it was buffed later, but I believe that is where i saw it.

 

[DoctorOr]

Trying to understand what you are saying. EU to MJ should be reduced because EU scales faster/higher than MJ?

Exactly

Bio-reactor + bio-generator bring high density power to MJ networks.

That's a new block, its not even in ultimate, and needs time for it to shake out, but the generator is nothing special. It only generates 16MJ/t

It's slightly better in 1.5.1, generating 24MJ/t and , but the "biofuel" I used in 1.5.1 is MFR's not Forestry so that may be the difference.

 

[Enigmius1]

I'm with others in saying that there is no objective 'best'. There are too many subjective elements that go beyond simply ascribing a universal value to the various different elements of a power system (ie. infrastructure, fuel access, power output, etc.) Playstyle including such things as preferred resource gathering method(s) and preferences regarding maintenance time/cost would also be components in the thought process when trying to decide which is "best".

No. Solar panels just should take more space. ^_~

In Minecraft? Since when is there ever a shortage of space? Maybe if the compact solars dev wanted to give the mod another look and maybe consider some sort of multi-block machine approach I could see it. Things like the igneous extruder and compact/advanced solar panels serve a purpose, which is cutting down on demand for system resources. Should this, should that, doesn't matter. Should not lag the shit out of your server is the only 'should' that really matters.

 

[PonyKuu]

The lag can be avoided by making it a multiblock. I've explained it earlier, so I dob't think I should repeat it en every single thread (I think, I'm already a bit annoying in the context of power converters which I dislike). But if 512-eu producing solar took 16x16 flat area instead of being just one block, it would be much better for me.

 

[Peppe]

Exactly



That's a new block, its not even in ultimate, and needs time for it to shake out, but the generator is nothing special. It only generates 16MJ/t

It's slightly better in 1.5.1, generating 24MJ/t and , but the "biofuel" I used in 1.5.1 is MFR's not Forestry so that may be the difference.

Yeah the reactor works well with boilers. The generator does not have a great role at the moment. High output, but very low efficiency.


BTW, confirmed lightning rod is 25m per strike. Also, it is only supposed to hold 1 strike worth internally with each new strike refilling up the 25million internal buffer. Where did you get 2.5 Billion?

Also your matter fabricator value (config line you posted) is ignored if mass fabricator is enabled. Additionally to compensate for the cost of the matter fabricator it produces a UU every 150k. Are you getting 2 stacks + ~38 UU per strike?

If it was 2.5 billion per strike at 8192 EU/t output it would run for more than four hours per strike. That is not very gregtechy...

 

[ApSciLiara]

Objectively best power source? Impossable!
Most awesome power source? I'm inclined to say either lightning rods or fusion reactors.
Why fusion reactors? You're harnessing the same kind of energy generation that the frakking sun uses to power your stuff. It doesn't get much more awesome than that.

 

[Mash]

And there are no device that does it without any loss. And there are no universal device to do that. How do you convert steam to electricity? Using turbines or piston steam engines. How do you convert electricity to steam? Using boilers and electric heaters (that's much more efficient than steam -> electricity). Even if you talk about AC-to-DC converters they don't have 100% efficiency, though they may be very good.
Are you playing 42 hours/day? What planet are you from? And turbine's lifetime is about 250 minecraft days. I'm not sure how often regular turbines require maintainance, but, hey. Honestly, this is the first thing I know that require maintainance that's not babysitting. Check it periodically and repair if it is low. And it's not replacement - it's repairing.

Like I said - Steel doesn't degrade that fast. Steel is not some form of plastic that falls apart after a year of use. It's designed to last a very long time so long as it isn't being dunked in magma constantly. I'd love to see any type of steam turbine that dissolved a steel rotor in 250 days. Iron? Maybe. Steel? Naw.

Plus, in order to get a reasonable amount of energy, I'd need quite a few of these turbines. Their output to block ratio is absolutely horrible. I likely wouldn't use them even if they didn't require maintenance: they're just that bad. I've just got too many things to do in this game to be concerned about my entire power system shutting down because I ran out of steel. If I were just babysitting a few of these things, that would be negotiable. However, I'd need at least 20 for my purposes. So, yeah. I'm not going to micromanage a massive room of steam turbines when there's a vastly superior alternative.

And honestly. We have jetpacks and can chop through stone with our fists. What is the point of comparing FTB to real life?

 

[PonyKuu]

And honestly. We have jetpacks and can chop through stone with our fists. What is the point of comparing FTB to real life?

That ruins all your arguments about steel corrosion ^_~

As I said, you can use whatever you want. My point is that steel turbine is a much better concept than mysterious "converter" blocks.

 

[DoctorOr]

Also your matter fabricator value (config line you posted) is ignored if mass fabricator is enabled.

Yes, as it turns out the server op turned on massfab. That's not something I even considered, as that's definitely one change that should be base IC2. I just presumed that the lighting rod was even more power than expected.

Which means I "should" only have 1.2k UU in my AE.

But still, a lightning rod that "reinvests" in more rods will seriously outproduce an ultimate hybrid doing the same, if only due to the lesser "investment" per rod.

It wont make more emeralds than bees though.

 

[Mash]

That ruins all your arguments about steel corrosion ^_~

As I said, you can use whatever you want. My point is that steel turbine is a much better concept than mysterious "converter" blocks.

I get that.

And I would be fine with using steel turbines if they didn't suck. There are a lot of things in FTB that conceptually don't make sense. However, we use them because the alternatives are usually awful.

 

[PonyKuu]

I will use turbines. I don't see any big issues that I'll spend a bit more steel to make them.

 

[Poppycocks]

I will use turbines. I don't see any big issues that I'll spend a bit more steel to make them.

Yeah, same. I've got iron from enderpearls and an enderfarm after all.

 

[Mash]

Four thermal generators give only slightly less EU/t, and require no maintenance. Not to mention that they use four blocks instead of twelve.

That is awful. Awwwwwwwful. Awful. If I'm going to use steam, then I'm going to use it in a way that isn't wildly worse than other sources of EU. This is why I've only used steam as a source of MJ up until this point. I have much, much better sources of EU than was currently available through steam.

In fact, steam turbines put out about 8 eu/t per block. That is worse than twelve normal generators stacked side by side. Space-wise, they're terrible. At minimum they should be putting out double what they are if they want to compete with any of the other EU generating blocks.

 

[PonyKuu]

Mash, I. Do. Not. Care. You can use whatever you want. You can do whatever calculations you want. But I want turbines. Not stupid converters or "supercompact supersolars". I WANT FREAKING HUGE TURBINES MADE OF STEEL. With rotors and stuff. Got it?
I also want my swarm quarry rather than Direwolf's mining wells even though it is faster. I want handgun. It is a fucking sandbox game where I use whatever I want.

 

[Mash]

I'm not telling you what to use. I'm just telling you why I don't like the current system of steam->Eu conversion, and why I think power converters are more than justified.

Honestly, I want huge turbines made of steel, too. I just want ones that can realistically compete with any other source of EU.

 

[Poppycocks]

I agree with both of you fellers. IC2 is seriously lacking any sort of mid-tier power production.

I really wish they upped the output of steam turbines to something reasonable like 256. Double the steam as well, that'd be one boiler per turbine. I could live with that.

I really dislike converters though...

Another thing I'd really like .... well, since we're getting fluids now... how's about making steam rise and... Well, not rise perhaps, omni-sideded expansion more like... with changing opacity not volume.... and steamy stuff mechanics, you can imagine.

And well, actual turbines. ACTUAL FREAKING HUGE TURBINES MADE OF STEEL WITH REVOLVING ROTORS AND SUCH.

Bed type multiblocks(so that we can place more next to each other without weird multiblock checking mechanics), which'd transfer power between themselves.

Then I could finally build that nuclear cooling tower like they are IRL. That would be so sweet.