Is it me, or do some people not "get" that FTB and its mods are free ?

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Golrith

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I can kind of see where you're coming from, but I've modded a lot of other games that were all free as well and have never seen the kind of Authorship/Rights/Entitlement issues with mods in any other game as I have seen with MC. Could that possibly be why some don't 'get it'.
Same here, I came from modding The Elder Scrolls series of games, the MC modding scene is totally different with all the strict permissions and donation links by modders, and all the poor quality/content feedback/posts by players.
I'm surprised any modder would want to mod Minecraft.

Luckily these forums are a breath of fresh air.
 

YX33A

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Jul 29, 2019
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Same here, I came from modding The Elder Scrolls series of games, the MC modding scene is totally different with all the strict permissions and donation links by modders, and all the poor quality/content feedback/posts by players.
I'm surprised any modder would want to mod Minecraft.

Luckily these forums are a breath of fresh air.
Same here. Came from TES, it IS very different. TES Modders know they aren't really the ones who own their mods, generally speaking, but there is a greater amount of respect between the modder and the user. The TES EULA makes it much more clear about what you are allowed to do, and what you aren't. Which basically boils down to "don't post illegal content" as the sole don't and "try to avoid the trap of releasing your first mod because you are proud of it" as the sole true "do", where as everything else is fair game. It's 100% open source modding, but this is because of how the mods are made. The code is open source, but the meshes and textures can be owned. And even so, since most TES games have a specific program to make mods for the game, there is no barrier between modders and users if the user wants to see how something in the mod was done.

But all in all, I think the main difference between TES mods and Minecraft mods is that Minecraft Mods are much harder to code, but easier to make items and armor(since it's just textures unless you want fancy 3D rendering on things, which isn't very "Minecraft"), and Minecraft Modders have never been given that first basic line of advice from a seasoned TES Modder to a novice. "Your first mod is almost guarantied to suck. Unless you have coded for years and have new, unique assets already in place for your items, don't bother releasing it." Simple truth; most TES Modders will tell you that their first mod sucked enough that they didn't release it.
I've made hundreds of tiny personally mods for Oblivion. Released zero of those. No one asks for them. No one dares ask for them. Mostly because if they wanted what I made, they would make it themselves. I made a script for Minetweaker to allow me to make Natural Gas(from Emmasher's Mods) out of Hydrogen in a BC Refinery. Then someone asked for that script. I gave it to them, in hopes that they realized it was tiny and they wasted their own time waiting for me to tell them what I did. Then they profusely thanked me for it. So I've made another script that allows me to make another gas in said mod from other gasses in said mod, and I'm waiting to see if they bite.
 

FyberOptic

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A paltry sum that actually isn't worth the effort they put into updating the vanilla game.

I agree. We often stop to appreciate what the mod devs do, but I don't think enough people fully recognize Mojang's generosity, let alone appreciate it.

Minecraft left beta over two years ago. They could have essentially let that be the "finished" game, having fulfilled their promise when you pre-paid, then kept a small team on hand for bug fixes, and moved forward designing "Minecraft 2" or whatever. But they didn't, and they've continued adding quite a bit of content in the meantime. And I have to reiterate, two years of meantime. I mean, one could argue that they just wanted to keep making sales on a winner, but the fact remains that they've never charged us for updates, nickeled and dimed us for new mobs/maps/pets/skin changes/etc, or done anything to take more money from even those of us who bought the game back at the reduced price. There's honestly not that many companies anymore who won't milk a cash cow when they see one.

When you also consider that many of the additions they've made after 1.0 allow for complex adventure/survival/challenge maps (additions which Mojang themselves don't really even use), the amount of content available to play only continues to increase and improve in quality. And this isn't even counting their somewhat friendly attitude towards modding, which I'm sure will still eventually be an officially supported aspect of the game. I also have to point out that Mojang hasn't tried to stop these map makers or modders from making money from their creations, either. A different company might have their own repository where these can be obtained, and lock the game down so that they're the only place you can get them from.

And speaking of making money, someone else pointed out Mojang's policy towards recording video. I'm sure most of you know about the whole debacle with Youtube streamers getting their videos flagged for copyright violations, and having to be part of larger groups to "protect" them, which I would imagine isn't free, and doesn't even always help with the issue. But Mojang lets people literally make a living creating Youtube and Twitch content, the latter of which they built into the game itself. It's publicity for Mojang too, sure, but that argument obviously doesn't mean anything to the majority of game developers who still slap out more copyright violations than new content.

And this is still all completely aside from the ripple effect it makes on the community, whether that's someone developing better people skills from making videos or streaming, better programming skills from making mods, better game development skills from making maps, etc.

So sure, it's still easy to get frustrated if something in the game breaks, or if they don't come through on a feature you've been wanting/expecting. I myself have been guilty of it in the past. But as I've come to see this kind of stuff from Mojang, I think they're a pretty swell company, and I have to recognize that if it were run by some of the other kinds of people we've seen out there, we might very well not even be here talking about mods and modpacks at all.


Now pardon me while I find some anchors to hold up this massive wall of text!
 

RealSketch

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xD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is a classic! You deserve a like!
 

skwerlman

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Jul 29, 2019
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Two statements in response to the posts regarding OSS:
1) While the benefits of OSS are many, and I'm a big supporter of OSS in general, it's not always the best approach, nor is it necessarily best for the community. While I don't want to beat a dead net.minecraft.entity.horse.name, RedPower is a good example. If Eloraam had gone open-source, we wouldn't have mods like Forge Multipart or Project:Red or Immibis's RedLogic. RedPower's [unfortunate] end actually spurred more growth in the modding community than any mod aside from Forge itself.
2) There has never been, is not, and (hopefully) will never be any requirement that any mod be open source. If all software were open source, you wouldn't even be upset that RedPower is proprietary because Minecraft (a closed source program) likely wouldn't exist.
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@FyberOptic I don't think I can agree more. In the TES community, many modders/gamers seem appreciative of their ability to mod the games, even with Zenimax tightening the reins on texture/mesh copyrights. I think perhaps one of the reasons it's (sadly) so different in this community is the substantially lower average age of the players, and thus, the lower average maturity. That's not to say that everyone who plays Minecraft is an immature kid, but unfortunately there are more here than there. Additionally, (and I've seen this in a number of places, notably twitch) when several people start acting immaturely, it seems to attract others of similarly immature natures. Go to page 15 of any minecraftforums thread, and you'll see what I mean.
 
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ThatOneSlowking

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Two statements in response to the posts regarding OSS:
1) While the benefits of OSS are many, and I'm a big supporter of OSS in general, it's not always the best approach, nor is it necessarily best for the community. While I don't want to beat a dead net.minecraft.entity.horse.name, RedPower is a good example. If Eloraam had gone open-source, we wouldn't have mods like Forge Multipart or Project:Red or Immibis's RedLogic. RedPower's [unfortunate] end actually spurred more growth in the modding community than any mod aside from Forge itself.
2) There has never been, is not, and (hopefully) will never be any requirement that any mod be open source. If all software were open source, you wouldn't even be upset that RedPower is proprietary because Minecraft (a closed source program) likely wouldn't exist.
-----
@FyberOptic I don't think I can agree more. In the TES community, many modders/gamers seem appreciative of their ability to mod the games, even with Zenimax tightening the reins on texture/mesh copyrights. I think perhaps one of the reasons it's (sadly) so different in this community is the substantially lower average age of the players, and thus, the lower average maturity. That's not to say that everyone who plays Minecraft is an immature kid, but unfortunately there are more here than there. Additionally, (and I've seen this in a number of places, notably twitch) when several people start acting immaturely, it seems to attract others of similarly immature natures. Go to page 15 of any minecraftforums thread, and you'll see what I mean.
image.jpg
 

trajing

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Jul 29, 2019
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Give him a break, it's only a couple of moths old.
Two statements in response to the posts regarding OSS:
1) While the benefits of OSS are many, and I'm a big supporter of OSS in general, it's not always the best approach, nor is it necessarily best for the community. While I don't want to beat a dead net.minecraft.entity.horse.name, RedPower is a good example. If Eloraam had gone open-source, we wouldn't have mods like Forge Multipart or Project:Red or Immibis's RedLogic. RedPower's [unfortunate] end actually spurred more growth in the modding community than any mod aside from Forge itself.
2) There has never been, is not, and (hopefully) will never be any requirement that any mod be open source. If all software were open source, you wouldn't even be upset that RedPower is proprietary because Minecraft (a closed source program) likely wouldn't exist.
-----
@FyberOptic I don't think I can agree more. In the TES community, many modders/gamers seem appreciative of their ability to mod the games, even with Zenimax tightening the reins on texture/mesh copyrights. I think perhaps one of the reasons it's (sadly) so different in this community is the substantially lower average age of the players, and thus, the lower average maturity. That's not to say that everyone who plays Minecraft is an immature kid, but unfortunately there are more here than there. Additionally, (and I've seen this in a number of places, notably twitch) when several people start acting immaturely, it seems to attract others of similarly immature natures. Go to page 15 of any minecraftforums thread, and you'll see what I mean.
If I'm not misinterpreting what I am reading, I would like to say to get out. There is a good chance I am misinterpreting though. Also, young ~= immature. Nor does it equal ignorance.
 

ThatOneSlowking

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Give him a break, it's only a couple of moths old.

If I'm not misinterpreting what I am reading, I would like to say to get out. There is a good chance I am misinterpreting though. Also, young ~= immature. Nor does it equal ignorance.
"Give him a break"?
Nit like I was being hard on him, just pointing out the obvious :p
 

Dorque

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Jul 29, 2019
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I'm very, very heavily of two minds about this whole thing and I've tried to avoid posting on it at all since I could write a small novel on the subject.

I think I will say this though, just as a thought-provoker: Nothing and nobody has ever improved without critics.
 

MrCervelo

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Jul 29, 2019
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I think I will say this though, just as a thought-provoker: Nothing and nobody has ever improved without critics.

I agree with this comment, criticism does help develop the product as a whole, but all too often, especially with the internet, the criticism becomes toxic. Some people are willing to support the mod and offering suggestions that are valuable and giving valid criticism. But all too often, people are just nasty, saying that a mod "sucks" advances nothing, it always bemuses me when people feel the need to do that. I'm not a believer in the whole "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all", but there is a big difference between abuse and criticism. If the level of toxic abuse becomes too much, then I'm not surprised that people walk away.
 

Adonis0

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I'm very, very heavily of two minds about this whole thing and I've tried to avoid posting on it at all since I could write a small novel on the subject.

I think I will say this though, just as a thought-provoker: Nothing and nobody has ever improved without critics.
Whilst critique is needed, insults are not, and that's the main problem.
 

casilleroatr

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Jul 29, 2019
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Sometimes, these environments aren't even conducive to constructive critique, because the critiques are sometimes interpreted as insults, not necessarily by the recipient of the critique (who might be more than happy to here it) but a number of people around them who end up making life uncomfortable for the more sensible critics. Its probably just a case of an eternal conflict between forum horde and forum alliance superimposing itself onto any vaguely combative conversation (there must be an internet law describing that phenomenon surely). Thankfully, these forums seem to be mostly alright, that's why I like them so much.
 

Adonis0

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[Snip]...there must be an internet law describing that phenomenon surely...[Snip]
I believe the Law of anonymity covers that, It empowers people to say exactly what is on their mind, which is normally right no matter what anybody says
 

skwerlman

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Jul 29, 2019
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If I'm not misinterpreting what I am reading, I would like to say to get out. There is a good chance I am misinterpreting though. Also, young ~= immature. Nor does it equal ignorance.

My first point was that sometimes closed source software can actually spur a community to create more than it would have otherwise. I'm not saying that it's perfect or better than OSS, but rather that there are benefits that seemed neglected in earlier comments.

As for the second part, you're right; perhaps I should've worded it differently. There are without a doubt immature adults and responsible, thoughtful kids.
 
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GreenZombie

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My first point was that sometimes closed source software can actually spur a community to create more than it would have otherwise. I'm not saying that it's perfect or better than OSS, but rather that there are benefits that seemed neglected in earlier comments.

Your example is rubbish. In a more plausible alternate scenario with RedPower2 being OSS, the other mod authors would not have dissolved into slime. They would, more than likely, developed a different interpretation, or something else entirely. There are completely different mods we don't have because, instead, theyve redeveloped something that already existed.

You've basically rephrased the broken window fallacy.
 

skwerlman

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Jul 29, 2019
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Your example is rubbish. In a more plausible alternate scenario with RedPower2 being OSS, the other mod authors would not have dissolved into slime. They would, more than likely, developed a different interpretation, or something else entirely. There are completely different mods we don't have because, instead, theyve redeveloped something that already existed.

You've basically rephrased the broken window fallacy.
You neglect the possibility that the reason said modders are even working on these projects may be because of the absence of RP.
Secondly, and especially in the case of Immibis, it's possible that the effort going into these mods is on top of prior effort, rather than instead of it.
And finally, stating that the developers 'have dissolved into slime' is not exactly the nicest way to make your point.
 
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