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Impregnable bees

Discussion in 'General FTB chat' started by Sonicyoda13, May 6, 2013.

  1. Sonicyoda13

    Sonicyoda13 Active Member

    Is there an easier way to get impregnable bees than resilient and noble because I have been trying for days and still havnt gotten them I have gone through around 21 soul frames and it dosnt seem to help and I don't have an alveary for mutators yet
  2. Bomb Bloke

    Bomb Bloke Well-Known Member

    The soul frames do help, but the odds are low as they don't have much to work with - a set of three bring you up from 3% to about a 10% chance of seeing the impregnable trait per breeding cycle, I'd say.

    If you haven't already, make sure that all the princesses and drones you're using have maximum fertility (taking you up to about a 35% chance). If they don't, get some that do, and breed them over and over until you've got a stack of them. You'll probably want a dozen each of noble and resilient. Shortest lifespan will ensure your soul frames last more breeding cycles, too.

    Keep in mind that even if the drones coming out still appear to be noble/resilient, they could still have impregnable as an inactive trait. Run the drones through the beealyser to find out before deciding whether to throw them away - if they've got it, put them in the isolator. Don't have an isolator yet? Build one. Don't have the imperials needed yet? Then go get them, you'll waste a lot of time by attempting to skip the basics.

    I'd strongly recommend building alvearies ASAP (even if only the standard design) - your first two for imperial and industrious bees (in that order), then more for any others you want producing things for you (such as impregnable). Even with the "fast" trait, it'll take a long time to get any decent amount of titanium out of an impregnable princess and an alveary, so don't even think about trying them with apiaries. You need those first two species setup first to have any hope of making more alvearies in a sane time frame.

    That's not to say you shouldn't have bees cycling through your apiaries whenever possible, even bees that don't make anything you feel is "useful" (as less valuable combs tend to be made faster then more valuable ones). Alvearies need a lot of wax and honey to construct - once you've made a couple you'll have an idea as to how much you need.
  3. KyoNeko66

    KyoNeko66 Member

    As seen on http://feed-the-beast.wikia.com/wiki/Alveary

    Total for one complete alveary:
    • 216 x Scented Paneling =
      • 216 x Pollen
      • 216 x Royal jelly
      • 432 x Bee wax
      • 648 x Wooden planks
      • 1080 x Squeezed Honey Drops
    • 27 X Impregnated Casing=
      • 216 x Logs
      • 13.5 x Buckets of seed oil
    However, they seemed to forget to include one part. One unit of many bits of patiance. Making all the panels takes a long time, and trying to do it manually will have you forget to refill parts or emptying the stack of panels. I set up a AE autocrafting system for.. And i still haven't regretted a single minute i spend on it. There a pain to craft and automation is a must in my opinion. But the hardest part about making the aleavy would be the squeesed honey. I always ran low on it because i was powering my beealizer with it as well. I should have known i could use honeydew for that.

    EDIT: i forgot to include. A carpenter cant even hold all the items needed to make all the panels at once, and then im not talking about the single output slot. Again.. Automate it.. Or risk your sanity.
  4. Adonis0

    Adonis0 Popular Member

    It's a little over 3 stacks and 24 of impregnated planks.
    Which converts to 3 stacks of royal jelly and pollen, 6 stacks of wax, and 9 of planks
    So you know what resources you're aiming for.

    Plus 27 impregnated casings too, but they tend to be much easier to get than the planks..

    Basically the way bee breeding is balanced, you want to push for imperial and industrious first, get yourself an alveary, and then continue breeding from there

    Edit: beeten to it
  5. Bomb Bloke

    Bomb Bloke Well-Known Member

    Just to bee a bit more clear, I was referring to the amount of bees producing combs he'll need. The amount goes down as more bees go into alvearies (certainly it drops a fair bit once you can start inoculating the "fast" trait everywhere), but to start out, you want a lot of bees constantly in apiaries. Like, say, a dozen queens - even if all they give is rocky combs. All depends on how much time you want to wait for the resources to build up.

    Wax is a big bottleneck, because although imperial and industrious bees produce most of the resources needed for alvearies (@KyoNeko: Honeydew works in the squeezer too, so it doesn't much matter which goes in the beealyser), they don't give you any wax. At all. And you need twice as much wax as you need of either jelly or pollen.

    You could lower the amount of apiaries and use frames, but as Kyo points out automation is key. Bees quickly get to the point where manually trying to process their output becomes a full-time job, so performing repetitive maintenance tasks to increase it is out of the question...
  6. Exedra

    Exedra Over-Achiever

    I suggest you build an ÜberBreeder
  7. KyoNeko66

    KyoNeko66 Member

    I never had the problems with the wax.. but then again i was messing around with bees for way to long myself before making a alveary. So i can see why i had more wax instead of those that rush to imperial and industrial (which i should do next time too).

    As for the honeydew in a squeeser.. I will remember that. I suppose it makes sense as its still honey
  8. DZCreeper

    DZCreeper Popular Member

    Been hesitant to do that considering Forestry for 1.5 nerfs such a thing. Making your bee's produce too fast or boost the mutation chance too high means you have a decent of turning your princess into a swarmer princess. Also DireWolf has that name trademarked, you owe him 5 cents.
  9. KyoNeko66

    KyoNeko66 Member

    Seriously? Making bees work hard or trying to give yourself a good mutation chance gives them a chance of turning into swarmers now? I am quite easygoing when its about nerfs and things.. But no.. Dont touch the bees.. There our little minion to work to work to the bone, to mutate without second thought.. To squees into liquid DNA without caring about them.. I want my bees hard working and mutating.. Not swarmy..

    My weirdness aside.. Do you happend to have a link with info about this? I doubt we can stop the nerf so i might as well prepear and see what i CAN do with my bees
  10. Adonis0

    Adonis0 Popular Member

    Not sure about a link, but I do know that you can have up to four frames affecting them with no problem
    And it's been mentioned something about swapping your queens out, so if they work for one lifespan, and sit in a chest for one lifespan, as I understand it that would stop them turning into a swarmer.

    This is from hearsay information on the forums though
  11. KyoNeko66

    KyoNeko66 Member

    Making a princess sit in a chest for a lifespan? I kind of dont think any mod has managed to make such a thing up till yet, but if thats whats it takes then i can life with it.. But one thing though. It might be smarter to not take forum speculation into something like this.. there often not true and just made to worry people. Unless the mod dev or someone with inside knowledge has confirmed it, i wouldn;t worry about it to much.
  12. Adonis0

    Adonis0 Popular Member

    Mm. the 4 frame thing is from sengir himself, but the second part is just passed around from forum chatter.
    So we can take the 4 frames as a definite, 5 frames or more in an alveary = swarmer bee at some point in time.
    Which isn't so bad, most bees still can get 100% comb production with the fastest trait and four frames, only the very slow comb bees won't.
    (such as platnium)
  13. KyoNeko66

    KyoNeko66 Member

    That is a limitation i can work with. I rarely, if ever use frames beside soul frame. What about the use of mutator blocks with uranium/nether star? As you mentioned that making ther emutation chance to high will also give them swarmer
  14. Adonis0

    Adonis0 Popular Member

    Mmm... There is some sort of limit to it for 'external mutation chance', but you'd be better off finding the update news for the exact figure. That's referring to soul frames and mutator blocks.
    But as I remember right, he's not happy with things like 100% mutation chance for platnium bees for example. Which is reasonable, slightly irritating but reasonable.
  15. KyoNeko66

    KyoNeko66 Member

    It is quite reasonable yes.. Suppose that means we'll just have to take more risks with the use of the isolater. And maybe making a platinum with 100% mutation with a chance of swarmer. But then isolating them and innoculating a other none swarmer bee. the loss of a princess aint big.. Just look at the pile of rocky princesses your quarry dug up
  16. Booker The Geek

    Booker The Geek Well-Known Member

    I'll have to find the post but i'm pretty sure that working your queen to hard WILL have effects, but they are going to be environmental, not effecting your bees.
  17. MilConDoin

    MilConDoin The Bee-Whisperer

    If you give your bees via external effects (like frames or mutator blocks) a production boost bigger than 16 or a mutator boost bigger than 10, then the queen will become a swarmer. This isn't affected by inherent bee traits like speed, only by external modifiers.
    DZCreeper likes this.
  18. KyoNeko66

    KyoNeko66 Member

    That is something annoying, but does this external modifier also includes inoculators with speed serums? Because i can live with just fastest innoculated bees no problem.. The mutating however.. I'll get used to it.

    EDIT: also, in what way are those numbers mesured? Do frames or mutators got a set value? I know they have set value increasements in production and mutation.. But not how to compare to those numbers
  19. Technician

    Technician Popular Member

    Question, is this editable is the config?

    It had better bee.

  20. MilConDoin

    MilConDoin The Bee-Whisperer

    External factors only, the speed trait is ignored, like I said. It doesn't matter, if the bee got its speed via inoculation or traditional breeding, since there is no difference in this.

    Forestry frames boost by factor 2, so 4 of those will boost to 2^4=16.

    Edit: Valuable Bee has a base chance of 1% to produce a Platinum Comb. Give the bee the fastest trait and put it in an Alvery with 4 production frames, then it will produce each bee tick with a chance of 1.7%*16 = 27.2%.

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