IC2, GT, EU Suggestion/Idea Thread

[Chocorate]

For solars, they should be a multiblock structure that intentially takes up a lot of space, just as base IC2 designed. But instead of having a ton of packets being generated and flowing around the cables, there should be a single block that "controls" the solar field. This block every 30 seconds or so checks to see how many solar panels are within a radius on the same level and attached to this block or another solar panel. This then is your total EU/t. From this one block flows the current.
No need for compact/advanced solars, and turns solars back to an energy source that supports your system, not a final solution to all your power needs.

I was thinking about this as well (I just love multiblock structures) but I was wondering if it'd be laggy. Like, they should be configurable. They should originally take up a lo of space, but ideally you'd be able to build onto them after that point. But I think that's be too laggy as it'd constantly be searching for another solar.

And Eloraams ones look way sexier. Just like everything else in her mod.

And factorization's solars looks wayyy better

 

[brujon]

Actually, Golrith, this would buff solars, at least, solars as they exist within IC2 as-is with no addons. Right now, one of the problems with the 1EU/t generators, is lost EU per packet. The hit is extremely large when you have multiple 1EU/t, but comparatively very small if you are generating a single 32EU/t packet. Compact Solars HV Solars already take 512 normal Solars to craft, your idea would make them just space savers, rather than complete upgrades. You could just have massive solar flowers...

And Chocorate, the two approaches to solar power are different... In RL you have photovoltaic cells, which is what IC2 and RP based it's solars on, and then you have Steam Turbine solars, which is the Factorization approach. Photovoltaic cells are more costly, and generate less energy, compared to the steam turbine solars, which use giant reflective focusing mirrors to concentrate the sun's energy into a beam that heats up the water tank, turning it into steam...

Which is why both IC2 and RP Solar's generate so little energy, but the Factorization one is able to power multiple machines all by itself. It's not just balance stuff, but makes sense from a RL point of view. One is for domestic use, mostly, and the other is industrial scale. OFC, factorization made the mirrors into small mirrors, and the solar turbine into a single block, when in fact, in RL these steam towers go up hundreds of feet in the air, and the mirrors are enormous, and there are maybe thousands of them. A completely realistic approach would be to require a big solar tower with the turbine on top, with varied power output based on size and number of surrounding mirrors. Another kind of solar in RL uses heat difference between air to move turbines, and it's a very neat and pretty innovative idea. A giant glass greenhouse traps the air, which is heated by the sun, and forced to go up the central tower, spinning the blades of the turbine. Pretty neat.

There's all kinds of crazy energy generation that mods could draw inspiration from, like this: http://www.ecochunk.com/6762/2013/0...-renewable-energy-using-whirlwinds/#more-6762

Massive energy generation in deserts, where there's a lot of heat difference between ground and air, but close to zero power on other biomes. Biome specific generators = Neat idea.

Like these http://www.vortexhydroenergy.com/ -> Only works in Ocean biomes, due to working off of ocean currents and resulting water vortexes.

Another wind vortex generator: http://vortexengine.ca/AVE_Designs.shtml

They all use relatively similar principles, but work in different conditions. Would make for a nice renewable intermediary power source, similar to Geothermals in output, but requiring more resources and specific conditions to set up.

Well, for GT, obviously the next step up from Fusion Reactors is, of course, Antimatter Reactors, requiring an input of UU-Matter plus a massive energy influx to kickstart the process, and unlock what is basically unlimited energy. What to do with it? I have absolutely no idea. But this should be the real endgame project for GT, reward your efforts with infinite energy. (OFC, real antimatter reactions have an efficiency that's incredibly close, but not quite 100%).

 

[DoctorOr]

Actually, Golrith, this would buff solars, at least, solars as they exist within IC2 as-is with no addons. Right now, one of the problems with the 1EU/t generators, is lost EU per packet.

With tin, you have a 40 block distance before you lose anything.

The hit is extremely large when you have multiple 1EU/t, but comparatively very small if you are generating a single 32EU/t packet.

Even if this was relevant (getting zero lossage is trivial) you can use a batbox or transformer to make a 32eu packet.

Which is why both IC2 and RP Solar's generate so little energy, but the Factorization one is able to power multiple machines all by itself.

No, its because factorization blocks use so little power. Just like RP machines, which can also power several machines off a single solar, except furnaces.

Even with powerconverters, a huge factorization solar array will barely generate 32eu, and the same space can hold more than 100 ic2 or rp solars.

 

[brujon]

I wasn't talking about the factorization energy producing being efficient in game terms when converted, but rather that the design it's based on is industrial scale.

 

[YX33A]

No, its because factorization blocks use so little power. Just like RP machines, which can also power several machines off a single solar, except furnaces.

Even with powerconverters, a huge factorization solar array will barely generate 32eu, and the same space can hold more than 100 ic2 or rp solars.

To be fair(and honest), PowerCrystals had to decide on a completely arbitrary conversion rate for Factorization support, because it uses only renewable energy and doesn't have a furnace, which was how he(?) was doing his conversion math, basing it on how much one energy you need to smelt one item in a furnace compared to the amount of energy you get from one piece of coal.

 

[DoctorOr]

To be fair(and honest), PowerCrystals had to decide on a completely arbitrary conversion rate for Factorization support, because it uses only renewable energy and doesn't have a furnace, which was how he(?) was doing his conversion math, basing it on how much one energy you need to smelt one item in a furnace compared to the amount of energy you get from one piece of coal.

To be fair, and honest, the steam generation created in the newest factorization would create even less power - and you'd have to convert it from MJ

Whereas a steam turbine connected to a boiler could power whole fields of machines just on the excess steam left over from MJ engines connected to the same boiler.

 

[Golrith]

brujon said: ↑

“Actually, Golrith, this would buff solars, at least, solars as they exist within IC2 as-is with no addons. Right now, one of the problems with the 1EU/t generators, is lost EU per packet.​

With tin, you have a 40 block distance before you lose anything.With tin, you have a 40 block distance before you lose anything.

Even if this was relevant (getting zero lossage is trivial) you can use a batbox or transformer to make a 32eu packet.

Actually it would make the cost of solars increase, as you wouldn't be able to use Tin on the large arrays. If you use copper, you'll lose EU very quickly, after that it's Glass Fibre, which is very expensive early game[DOUBLEPOST=1364325197][/DOUBLEPOST]

I was thinking about this as well (I just love multiblock structures) but I was wondering if it'd be laggy. Like, they should be configurable. They should originally take up a lo of space, but ideally you'd be able to build onto them after that point. But I think that's be too laggy as it'd constantly be searching for another solar.

It would be less laggy then the current approach of sending lots of individual packets. The controlling block would only need to check for a change in the array once every 30 seconds (if that), within say a 30 block radius on the same level as the controlling block.

Using RedPower item terms, it turns the EU from single items travelling through tubes, to stacks travelling through tubes.

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I think though that Greg could spend some time on the early tier items and give them some needed love and affection by using more "modern" design elements that is lacking from the IC2 development at the moment.

I feel that the wind, solar and hydro power systems could be made more interesting if they were multiblocks. The bigger size affects design/space, and increases material costs.

 

[DoctorOr]

Actually it would make the cost of solars increase, as you wouldn't be able to use Tin on the large arrays.

Arrays as in solar flowers of 1EU/t panels, then yes you can.

Arrays as in compact solar mod, then that's a minor cost.

 

[Chocorate]

I think though that Greg could spend some time on the early tier items and give them some needed love and affection by using more "modern" design elements that is lacking from the IC2 development at the moment.

I feel that the wind, solar and hydro power systems could be made more interesting if they were multiblocks. The bigger size affects design/space, and increases material costs.

It's just that there's so many end game things in Gregtech. I mean, those machines are really cool and everything, but base IC2 early game just feels so lacking. And the windmills/watermills wouldn't only be a better version of what they are now. They'd be a bit better than what they are now, and just a bit harder to make, with adding the wheel part to watermills. And I was thinking that the wheel part of the watermill could be much like the Machine Casings in that there'd be different types. The first one (to get a little more than the one we have now) would require a bit of wood and maybe iron. Then there'd be another one that requires advanced alloy and iron. Then there'd be another after that possibly. What I'm saying it that it wouldn't be pointless to add. It'd be a practical mid-game power source. Not enough to compete with lava or Nuclear generation, but a great side project to combine with other green energy sources. It wouldn't make the original early-game watermill incredibly hard to craft, and it would add new opportunities for people who don't only want to use Steve Cart Tree farms or lava generators.

 

[Golrith]

Arrays as in solar flowers of 1EU/t panels, then yes you can.

Arrays as in compact solar mod, then that's a minor cost.

Not talking about solar flower arrays or compact solar, but a multiblock structure where the EU is generated/extracted from one block, with the other blocks being solar panels. Tin cable would be fried. Cables can't attach directly to the solar panel.

Using good old ASCII art (above view):

XXXX
XXXO----
XXXX

X = Solar Panel
O = Control Block
- = Cable

Above would produce 11EU/t as a single packet, not 11 packets of 1EU/t

 

[Dravarden]

But it would cause lag, every time checking for new solar panels... Unless the block that produces energy has some sort of GUI like the minecraft printer, you insert the panel and choose where it will be placed, that would be neat.

 

[CrafterOfMines57]

I think the point of solars (base IC2, not going to discuss whether or not Compact Solars is cheap) is to take up space if you want any serious energy from them, and in discussions on the lag they cause in the past, it was stated that it causes more lag to check if the 20 panels can see the sky versus 20 panels outputting 1 EU/t.

 

[DoctorOr]

Not talking about solar flower arrays or compact solar, but a multiblock structure where the EU is generated/extracted from one block, with the other blocks being solar panels.

So _just_like_compact_arrays_

Minor cost to use glass fiber. One you should expect by the time you're building something that big.

 

[Whovian]

So _just_like_compact_arrays_

Nope, see a few posts above. A multiblock structure.

 

[MagusUnion]

You do realize, that part of the reason why IC2 has add-on content, is so that "New" content isn't solely dependent on the main IC2 team?

Gregtech is an add-on, and look at all it adds. (And, unfortunately, changes... *shakes fist*)

So, what we need is a new add-on that adds:

* Advance WaterMills (preferably multiblock)
* Vortex Wind Energy Generator (good find! ty for the link!)
* Anti-Matter Generator/Usage
* Buff to IC2 fuels (but have you been using Superfuel?)

... will be noted. One or two of those I do wish to do, but I'm still taking the time to relearn Java in order to make this possible...

 

[Someone Else 37]

About the multiblock solar lag problem... Why not, as someone mentioned earlier, use Xycraft's method of forming multiblocks? Place down the panels and the control block, then click the control block ONCE to activate it. This could cause problems with people activating the thing and removing the panels, causing the control block to still think it has panels attached. However, Soaryn has already solved this problem, too, although I'm not sure how he does it. My guess, the solar panel blocks would send an update to the control block when broken.

Hrmm, maybe someone knowledgeable in the internal workings of Gregtech's LESU would be of assistance here? I think that multiblock might do exactly what we want to do here. And, if I remember correctly, the LESU-blocks are "as stupid as cobblestone".

 

[Dravarden]

Solar panels, along with water and wind mills are supposed to give power early game, not to compact 200 of those to power your mass fab...

 

[DoctorOr]

Nope, see a few posts above. A multiblock structure.

Multiblock is aesthetics. It works exactly like compact solar arrays.

 

[Golrith]

But it would cause lag, every time checking for new solar panels... Unless the block that produces energy has some sort of GUI like the minecraft printer, you insert the panel and choose where it will be placed, that would be neat.

The check doesn't have to be that frequent, every 30 seconds would be more then sufficient. Scanning a simple 2D matrix of arrays is no major thing, just simple number crunching.

If it's to do with the clear sky checking, then there's something wrong. That also shouldn't take that long, even in a large array. All that has to be done is to test from the block above the panel to the sky limit if the block is empty of not. If not, stop checking, report that the solar panel is blocked.


There has to be some way of having a large array of solar panels without a ton of lag, some fresh approach that hasn't been thought off yet. Then solars can be back to large structures and no longer a "crude" fix of compact/advanced solars generating tons of EU.

 

[DoctorOr]

However, Soaryn has already solved this problem, too, although I'm not sure how he does it. My guess, the solar panel blocks would send an update to the control block when broken.

I would guess that the blocks react to block updates, and propagate those events around the structure to the valve. It would have a lot of false positives, but far less than checking the structure constantly.