I feel like 1.4 gregtech was the best gregtech ever.

[JoeOtaku]

This also applies to why I loved untimate so much. Unleashed for me is a totally different experience than untimate mainly due to the easyness of the pack and the missing of really cool end game machines. I'm not saying gregtech is great but still its a lot cooler when you have it in a 1.4 world. In 1.5/1.6 its a different story.

Gregtech 1.4 for me was really cool. Infact i switched from tekkit to ftb because of this. although 1.4 gregtech made the game harder (diamonds for crapy macerator lol) it was still lots of fun to deal with. It adds a lot of cool machines and one of my favorite being the industrial grinder. UU matter was hard to get due to the Matterfab but the end had tones of that ore which i forgot the name of and i can use a industrial grinder to get iridium with. Making uu matter actually became fun not just spam solars and u get uu. I built huge builds like spawner tower for blaze soul shards and blaze rods feeding into generators or steam boilers. It was a lot of fun tinkering around with those stuff. Centrifuging lava made my game at that stage since i was able to get soooooooooo much copper and electrum out of that. I would never been able to make my lovely fusion reactor without this. Also gregtech added more ways to store eu such as the idsu which ment that i never had to spam mfsus anymore. Overall gregtech was a great experience in 1.4 era.

However in 1.5 GT changed sooooooo much and went into a stage which i like to say makes the game not fun. It was like the mod was developed for just making the game harder and thats all. a bunch of extra and unnessessary stuff was added to the mod. i needed soooooooooo much of that fricking iron and stuff just to make a bucket... also a pick had 45 uses. A wood block will give 2 planks wtf??? Omniwrench was nerfed, the recipe for tones of ic2 stuff got changed and i was not happy. circuits needed assembly machine which takes 300s??? It went from fun endgame and longer early game to nearly-impossible early game and not as fun endgame.

In 1.6 the mod went even deeper into the water. Greg added something called the "bronze age" which u need to go into before you can make any of the plain ic2 stuff because all of them needed steel which needed a bronze blast furnace. All the bronze machines needed steam which forces players to make steam boilers and the machines were really expensive (consider making bronze for 10 macerators and 10 furnaces, it takes soooooooooooooo much copper!!!) and were super slow. I felt like this was stupid. 1.4 machines added a good feeling to the game and looked cool. Also they were able to do a lot of stuff better (like the industrial grinder or the industrial blast furnace). 1.6 bronze machines dont. they have the same function to a normal machine but are much slower, looked ugly and are really expensive. Where is my old lovely gregtech?>??????

So at the end all i wanted to do was to express how much i loved 1.4 gregtech and the 1.4 packs and want to play them again with my friends who quitted ftb because gregtech was such crap in 1.5 and they loved the 1.4 gregtech. I personally have still got my 1.4 world and am still playing the world. I really wish gregtech brings back the old lovely gregtech in 1.7 with the new ic2. It would be amazing.

 

[Larmonade]

I have never played a modpack with Gregtech in it. I jumped on the FTB wagon mere months ago, post greg/tinker debacle, and well after most had more or less "picked a side," if you can call it that. My image of it has basically been that it makes the game harder, which some people like, and some do not. I guess that being a guy with limited time to play minecraft due to irl obligations, I've almost always defaulted to game modes and settings that most would call "easy" in whatever game I play. It's not that I don't like a challenge, but if I only have a few hours a week to play a game, I wanna feel like I accomplished goals A, B, and C, rather than grinding away at step 1 of goal A for 6 hours.

That said, I definitely understand the appeal of GregTech. Lots of neat stuff on the high end of the tech tree, and an epic grind through the lower levels in order to get there. Were I a guy with significantly more time on my hands for games or minecraft, I almost certainly would be more interested in what it has to offer.

T although 1.4 gregtech made the game harder (diamonds for crapy macerator lol) it was still lots of fun to deal with.

This bit of your post in particular struck me. So many mods have the "magic-ore-doubling-block" quite early in the tech tree, perhaps in compensation for the increased uses for the ingots you're now getting double of. But is that really how it should* go? It makes a perverse kind of sense to me that one of the major milestones of vanilla ("Diamonds!") be the gateway for one of the primary features of tech mods. I remember being slightly shocked when I started up my first serious FTB build and realized that setting up my first machine line and getting those sweet, sweet double ores was...kinda cheaper than I expected. I mean yeah, I had to make sure I could secure a supply of rubber (for IC2), and I had to jump into a couple of caves to get the first few half-stacks of metals, but I guess I was expecting...more. I went cave diving, poked a rubber tree, and suddenly...electric furnaces and ore pulverizers? Looking at Greg's recipes...yeah, more what I was expecting. More than just resources, but a whole infrastructure is needed if you want access to the next step, the next branch of the tech tree. Not everyone's cup of tea, certainly, but definitely something to consider.

I guess that now you've got me thinking about this idea of whether tech mods should* replace vanilla progression, supplement it, or simply come after it. I've played so much Unleashed at this point that it's become second nature to think "gee, now I have to set up my farms...oh there's a mod to help me with that" and then whip something out of the FTB swiss-army-knife to make that aspect of the game faster/easier/more productive, but Idunno...it might make for a more meaningful* experience to have to basically establish yourself in vanilla before really getting to foray into the real "tech" that's gonna make you super rich. And I know that Greg's later versions modify even that, but again, just the thought being that you don't get to appear on the earth with no possessions on day one and have electricity by day 2.

maybe once the dust has settled around the 1.6 releases, and packs have stabilized and the configs are good to go, it'll be time to finally give greg a whirl. But yeah...anyways...your post made me think.


*I know that words like "supposed to" and "meaningful" are subjective, but I wanted to say those things in that way because, I guess, this post was more a conversation with myself, chiding myself for sometimes playing in a way that I know is less enjoyable for me. If you disagree or think that better words could have been chosen, feel free to substitute or omit as you see fit as you read. I'm not lookin' to cause trouble.

 

[Kyll.Ing.]

The direction that GregTech has taken saddens me too, a little. When reading the OP, I almost felt like I had to write a disclaimer stating that I'm not a puppet account of yours, or vice versa. You took the words straight out of my mouth. I never played GT 1.6, but I recognize the stuff you say about 1.5.

I think what makes GregTech so unique is the fact that it focuses on the lategame in a way no other mods seem to do. Yes, there are mods that include a tech tree spiralling into high heaven. Yes, there are mods that add machines. But almost all of them are stand-alone. Mods that aren't stand-alone, tend to focus on a single aspect of its parent mod (such as extra Buildcraft pipes, or Nuclear Control for IC2).

GregTech 1.4, however, took a back seat. It let IC2 be its foundation, not a parent mod, then expanded on it when it had no more to offer. Everybody likes Macerators and Furnaces. It's always great fun to upgrade them into Rotary Macerators and Induction Furnaces. At that point in IC2,you can consider your ore processing system properly set up. It's sufficient content for any mod. Other mods add more efficient furnaces, maybe, or have their own machines that serve the same purpose. What GregTech does differently, is adding more macerators (OK, Grinders) and furnaces, but they require the tier 2 stuff from IC2 to be built at all. The mod is not intended to offer a complete package on its own (Thermal Expansion, MystCraft, most other big mods), or improving on a lacking part of its parent mod (Nuclear Control, MFFS, GraviSuite). It simply continues where the parent mod ends, picks up its mission statement, and takes it further. It's like an "Expansion pack" for IC2.

At least, that's part of what it does. It is also intended to extend the early game, and keeping "overpowered" stuff restricted to late-game. This is where it conflicts with the interests of many. I like to be able to work towards more goals in the end-game, but I don't want to chop down a forest in order to make a simple fence. I like having to search the End for rare late-game materials, but when I start building my base, I'd rather not spend days searching for ores just to craft enough stuff to make an Iron Pickaxe.

If any other mod had made machines like the End-game GregTech stuff, without the early-game grinding, I'd download it on the spot. I like mods to add to the tech tree I'm already familiar with, instead of discarding it and making a new tech tree on its own. I also like how GT considers semi-useless materials from other mods (Such as Creosote Oil or RP2 Tungsten Ore) and finds a use for them (Now my Coke Oven byproducts help supply my base with power, instead of filling tanks everywhere).

I hope another mod will try to re-create what GregTech did in the "pre-crazy" days. I'll be waiting patiently.

 

[frederic]

greg has broken the MC EULA so we will soon see NerfTech dissapear for good he added now crashcode about a month ago whenever mDiyo joins any server or world it auto corrupts it have a look at line 74 in his code... he was OK-ish in 1.4 now he just went full on batshit adding crashcode and being a general dick to certain modders and if anyone says anything about it a giant horde of fanboys rages at you look at cloudy for example the poor guy got bashed for no good reason... i never liked greg and never will

 

[Larmonade]

greg has broken the MC EULA so we will soon see NerfTech dissapear for good he added now crashcode about a month ago whenever mDiyo joins any server or world it auto corrupts it have a look at line 74 in his code... he was OK-ish in 1.4 now he just went full on batshit adding crashcode and being a general dick to certain modders and if anyone says anything about it a giant horde of fanboys rages at you look at cloudy for example the poor guy got bashed for no good reason... i never liked greg and never will

I think most people here are familiar with Greg's past antics, and may or may not be unsurprised by his newest antics. But rather than turn this thread into another "I hate greg/gregtech" thread, let's try to keep things positive, or at least nostalgic and thoughtful. It's easy to hate on the guy for whatever reason (you observed that anytime someone says something, "a giant horde of fanboys rages at you"; the opposite also appears to be true...) but it's more interesting to talk about the methods in his madness and the evolution on the mod. And interesting conversation is more...interesting, imo.

Also, no offense intended, but periods and commas, dude. Periods and commas.

 

[JoeOtaku]

*I know that words like "supposed to" and "meaningful" are subjective, but I wanted to say those things in that way because, I guess, this post was more a conversation with myself, chiding myself for sometimes playing in a way that I know is less enjoyable for me. If you disagree or think that better words could have been chosen, feel free to substitute or omit as you see fit as you read. I'm not lookin' to cause trouble.

The only reason i started this post was express the ideas i have and chat with people with either the same or different ideas than me. Gregtech was such a legend in the old classic days, and i seirousily want it back no kidding. The 1.4 worlds with gt was the world i spent most of my hours in. Gregtech was such a good mod at the time and when i first joined ftb i couldn't imagine a pack without it. Gregtech 1.4 in my mind was the only mod(or addon) that brought true endgame fun to the game.

I gave up on my unleashed world about 3 weeks ago because i got bored with it. I have almost all the things i wanted and i could have possiblaily owned in a rather short period of time (<130 hours). I had like 5 bases around the world and 3 in mystcraft ages and i've reached the end point of almost every mod i could think of. I made an arua node that was more than 10000 vis, made 26 steam boilers, owned 100+ untimate solars, had 2 nuclear reactors, had 3 sets of powersuits and 1 gravisuite, my ae autocrafting was 15x15x15, i had 6 treefarms going with steves cart, a huge dye farm going with mfr, 30 bioreactors, 2 food farms going with golems, and owned almost every kind of bee there was. However i felt a void, a void where everything was such easy and i wanted something like gregtech. So, i went to unhinged. However unhinged didn't give me the same feeling as ultimate or mindcrack. It was so different that i couldn't recognize it was gregtech that i used to know that well, and the difference was in a bad and not fun way. much was missing, and much was less fun. I quited like after building my first set of machines.

I missed gt sooooooooo much. If any mod author would make another mod or addon that was this fun, i would immidiately download it and install it. If thermal expansion had a addon that was somewhat equivilant to gt 1.4 it would be great to see since i have no idea what it can look like. However, the best would always be greg realizing what he had done and changed gt back to the old days. I cross my fingers for all of this.

 

[zorn]

Ultimate, I would bet, is not the style of play that gregtech is trying to present. There are lots of shortcuts in that pack to let you bypass the gregtech harder recipes. If pulverizer a had their steel recipes for example, it would have been more balanced.

I'd like to see a mod pack where each player voided a branch if the tech tree to go down. Where no one has auto mining AND ore doubling early and

One player decides to invest in ore doubling while another builds a quarry but neither has both... Then they work down that branch of the tech tree to later be able to afford all branches of tech.


It's like what a player on my server said the other day about MPS: it would be more fun if you had to choose certain modules but couldn't use them all. Maybe one player uses the suit for super fast transport but another foregoes flight to be able to have full armor protection. Unfortunately everyone just puts all modules they have any interest in into the suit, no choice necessary.

 

[Bellaabzug21]

I agree with this. Back then Gregtech was an addon for IC2. Not a dictatorship of all the other mods.

 

[The classless]

The only reason tried to deal greg tech is because the machines were fun

 

[GPuzzle]

Honestly, I'd say screw balance to Greg, because his early game was irritating and his end game kind of boring. BUT, I'll give him that, he managed to hit a spot just right - middle game. He put the middle game in such a position that you had a good deal of infrastructure but you weren't OMGWTFBBQSUPAHGOD. It was good. I liked middle game. At that point, Greg was great. However, instead of improving where he should (middle game), he decided to change on the stuff he shouldn't from the very start (early game and late game). I liked GT, if only through a period of time.

If anything, we need more middle game based mods. That's where it's lacking. There's enough stuff to do early on - not enough to do between "lone survivor" and "God of the Overworld".

Now, allow me to argue with zorn for a little bit: mod balance does matter BUT not in the way that "let's make everyone suffer!" but in "what is the perfect spot for me to actually use it?". Rotarycraft fails because you need to understand so much about just so you can use it - besides, it's not good on servers. GregTech fails because of its stupidly long term boring part of the game. But mod balance, however, is an abstract concept. Dave is not right nor wrong, just following his opinion on what is balance. For me, GT is grindy, not balanced (except middle game because it's awesome). For you, it may be balanced.

 

[PsionicArchon]

If I'm going to reminisce about anything from the days of 1.4, 1.4.7 specifically, it's going to be mod stability. Compared to 1.5 and 1.6, I was able to accomplish far, far more in my 1.4 world, as was everyone else on my server. There was quite a bit less drama, the whole redpower fiasco hadn't happened yet and, modding felt truly enjoyable. That feeling has almost, ALMOST been re-captured in 1.6.4, let's hope things stay peaceful.

Anyways, on to the crux, of this thread. I've started to split Gregtech users/spectators into two separate groups. Group A feels as though Gregtech was designed to increase difficulty (Minecraft.. difficult.. what?) or, pad out segments of tech progression. Group B (where I consider myself to be) doesn't share group A's opinion on difficulty and, instead has come to understand that Gregtech creates an incentive to automate or build stationary infrastructure. "Why no good sir, you can no longer hulk tools into existence by bending metal with your bare hands." Group B likely understands that "late game" modded Minecraft is damn near impossible to compartmentalize where as group A is hell bent on identifying a proper "late game".

For some mysterious reason, it is impossible for group B to sway the opinion of group A so rather then spark an argument I'll share my experience with 1.6 Gregtech.

At first, Greg's bronze age took some getting used to. One version of Minecraft ago my early days were spent clambering for rubber (or gold for TE machines in 1.4) so that I could rush for my magical ore doubling block. It took a bit of adjusting but, before long I came to the conclusion that when branch mining I should make one tunnel at Y:45, another at Y:30 and, one at Y:12. Searching for copper and tin was far, far more important now and, this was before KingLemming had convinced Greg to un-nerf bronze crafting. I don't know about you guys but, I tend to be swimming in copper and tin within a few hours of mining. The bronze blast furnace is one of the cheapest methods of steel production by far, so I built four of them (blast furnaces can share machine casing ).

Once I had a nice set of steam powered machines I started my venturing into IC2/Thermal Expansion. It hadn't occurred to me until this point that, shoot, I've barely touched my iron supply. I've been using tin/copper for everything! The only iron object I made was the iron pick which I promptly used to acquire some rubies for better tools. I was also sitting on a healthy supply of steel, even with my configs set to force Thermal Expansion's machine frames to use steel I had no problem progressing.

It all comes down to perspective. I just don't see the "grind" that everyone else does. There's so many ways to automate, there are so, so many different methods for simplified crafting that I seldom find myself experiencing any tedium. You're either going to come to a similar conclusion or, you're not. I find those that share my perspective far easier to rationalize with. I find everyone else to be rather stubborn. It isn't even a matter of having your cake and, eating it too. It's having fifteen different cakes that all give you the power to transcend reality and, strip mine entire planets using only the power of your thoughts. You get to choose which cake turns you into a god, or hell you can have them all. That's what's important right?

I will agree on one thing, Greg's textures are absolutely terrible. I'm working on a new set of textures with my girlfriend that puts them in line with IC2's updated textures. You'd have to be colorblind to find Greg's happy orange interface tolerable.

 

[abculatter_2]

Okay, that does it. This thread has managed to piss me off SO GODDAMN MUCH, that I am now making a config file for Gregtech for FTB.

Specifically, I will be using the Direwolf20 pack as a base. This config will be geared towards removing Greg's intrusiveness in other mods while still keeping true to its original purpose. (Plate bending, for example, will no longer be required for tools, but will remain for IC2 and Greg's machines.)

I'll also probably release a couple versions with details changed, but I would like some input and suggestions on what specifically should be in each config. I honestly do not care about making a huge number of them that mix-match details, navigating Greg's config files really is NOT the harrowing trek through the impenetrable jungle of insurmountable text that so many people make it out to be. All it really needs is ctrl+f, and getting used to how greg names things.

 

[thephoenixlodge]

I will agree on one thing, Greg's textures are absolutely terrible. I'm working on a new set of textures with my girlfriend that puts them in line with IC2's updated textures. You'd have to be colorblind to find Greg's happy orange interface tolerable.

You may be interested to know that TheSirusKing, who is the new texture artist for IC2 has also been working on a resource pack specifically for bringing GT textures to the same x32 style that he's brought to base IC2. Here

 

[PsionicArchon]

You may be interested to know that TheSirusKing, who is the new texture artist for IC2 has also been working on a resource pack specifically for bringing GT textures to the same x32 style that he's brought to base IC2. Here

This pleases me greatly, I'll be interested in using his machine textures as a reference point.

 

[DREVL]

Holy cow this is the tl;dr thread of the year....

 

[bary3000]

The best gregtech ever will be when it will GONE.

 

[zorn]

Honestly, I'd say screw balance to Greg, because his early game was irritating and his end game kind of boring. BUT, I'll give him that, he managed to hit a spot just right - middle game. He put the middle game in such a position that you had a good deal of infrastructure but you weren't OMGWTFBBQSUPAHGOD. It was good. I liked middle game. At that point, Greg was great. However, instead of improving where he should (middle game), he decided to change on the stuff he shouldn't from the very start (early game and late game). I liked GT, if only through a period of time.

If anything, we need more middle game based mods. That's where it's lacking. There's enough stuff to do early on - not enough to do between "lone survivor" and "God of the Overworld".

Now, allow me to argue with zorn for a little bit: mod balance does matter BUT not in the way that "let's make everyone suffer!" but in "what is the perfect spot for me to actually use it?". Rotarycraft fails because you need to understand so much about just so you can use it - besides, it's not good on servers. GregTech fails because of its stupidly long term boring part of the game. But mod balance, however, is an abstract concept. Dave is not right nor wrong, just following his opinion on what is balance. For me, GT is grindy, not balanced (except middle game because it's awesome). For you, it may be balanced.

I agree with most of what you said. Gregtech is the only mod that stretches out that time period between 'lone survivor' and 'god of the overworld'. For me, that is most of the fun of the game. Godmode is fun too, but id like it to be icing on the cake... I don't want to just eat icing every day after a week into a world.

To me 'more middle based game mods' means slowing down game progression. Because of power creep, modded minecraft IMO has given players more and more ways to get power and resources faster and more efficiently, and then not increased the power or resource requirements for late game items to match. In original IC2 days, you had an iC2 miner or people used mining lasers. Quarries were slow. Turtles and 100 mj quarries (48 mj, really, I think) that are killer fast now matched up with IC2's idea of ore doubling to give people too many resources. THis kills that middle stage you talk about. Alblaka, it appears, felt people woulld have slow automated mining methods, so he introduced a way to double your ores. Then other mods made ways to mine really fast.

Gregtech kind of solves this by making machines really expensive and require a lot of power. But if I was a modder, Id have done his mod a lot differently. Fusion reactor with nothing to do with it isn't too fun. I had 2500 iridium plates and nothing to build with them.

With respect to what I quoted from Dave, it's just another opinion that without mod balance or a mod like greg to force players to slow down, people will use the best items from each mod to progress along as fast as they can.

This post is full of opinions and generalizations.

 

[GPuzzle]

Now, I think that while efficiency is a great thing, honestly, the 48MJ/tick quarries and turtles aren't really overkill, it's the other way around - IC2's way of doubling ore is just too slow. Scretching it means that something needs to be added to fullfill it, and not drag it (Greg did drag it a bit, but he was the only one that added middle game anyway). People will use the most efficient methods, and the best way of pleasing them is giving efficient and useful methods. Not dragging them down to match a slower game. Some say that the game progresses too fast or too slow because there's no mid game. No middle term. No place to stop, take a breath and say "Well, I've done something and it looks good - but I'm still just starting on the cool part." A 4e D&D paragon path, if you will. Those were placed in the middle game part (level 11 to 20), and allow a plethora of bonuses and things that can help you and specialize you in something.
I'm learning Java right now, so I hope to fix this without turning the game into a drag.

 

[Dravarden]

greg has broken the MC EULA so we will soon see NerfTech dissapear for good he added now crashcode about a month ago whenever mDiyo joins any server or world it auto corrupts it have a look at line 74 in his code... he was OK-ish in 1.4 now he just went full on batshit adding crashcode and being a general dick to certain modders and if anyone says anything about it a giant horde of fanboys rages at you look at cloudy for example the poor guy got bashed for no good reason... i never liked greg and never will

he removed the world corrupting code and the bronze nerf not long ago.

 

[zorn]

Now, I think that while efficiency is a great thing, honestly, the 48MJ/tick quarries and turtles aren't really overkill, it's the other way around - IC2's way of doubling ore is just too slow. Scretching it means that something needs to be added to fullfill it, and not drag it (Greg did drag it a bit, but he was the only one that added middle game anyway). People will use the most efficient methods, and the best way of pleasing them is giving efficient and useful methods. Not dragging them down to match a slower game. Some say that the game progresses too fast or too slow because there's no mid game. No middle term. No place to stop, take a breath and say "Well, I've done something and it looks good - but I'm still just starting on the cool part." A 4e D&D paragon path, if you will. Those were placed in the middle game part (level 11 to 20), and allow a plethora of bonuses and things that can help you and specialize you in something.
I'm learning Java right now, so I hope to fix this without turning the game into a drag.

Efficient and useful is all subjective though don't ou think? A furnace that has a built in solar panel, smelts a stack of items per tick, and costs 4 iron to craft is more efficient than any furnace currently available. Is it a good idea to make something like this though?

I felt that by making things too efficient, it ruined the middle game for people. There would be two ways to approach it. Original IC2 with slower mining and less income, and then giving you cheaper items, or gregtech which assumes faster mining/resource income, and then makes machines which require lots of resources to produce and run. Maybe Im wrong.

The problem as I see it is that we have mashed all of those together, so people use the ways to get more resources, but the machines are still cheap. Id be fine with old school IC2 style of play, say... no turtles or quarries, but allowing TiC tools possibly, ic2 miners, mining lasers, etc. Or go the greg route and offer 'efficient' machines that bring in a lot of resources and then make things very expensive. This usually introduces longer crafting though. I wonder if greg really means for people to sit crafting for long periods of time, or are the deep recipes just that its a way to make recipes more expensive. Actually using tic tools and removing quarries and turtles sounds pretty fun.

Gregtech in 1.4.7 Ultimate was... in the middle. IMO.