I feel like 1.4 gregtech was the best gregtech ever.

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GPuzzle

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There's a difference between efficient and just plain stupid - the only reason to add something like that was if all other mods had something like it.
For example, Dartcraft Force Furnaces are more efficient than normal furnaces, but they only reach the level of power a Pulverizer has if you are willing to go through Dartcraft - if you do, it's an immensely efficient portable ore doubling machine you can carry around.
 

zorn

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There's a difference between efficient and just plain stupid - the only reason to add something like that was if all other mods had something like it.
For example, Dartcraft Force Furnaces are more efficient than normal furnaces, but they only reach the level of power a Pulverizer has if you are willing to go through Dartcraft - if you do, it's an immensely efficient portable ore doubling machine you can
carry around.

Just saying that more efficient is not really better. It doesn't take much either, again I point to kirindaves comment: people will use the easiest option.

Think of it this way. People use quarries but not ic2 miners but if they did they would get more if that middle game you talk about. Wouldn't they? Wouldn't slower resource gathering make the mid game longer?
 

GPuzzle

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Yes, but why not ADAPT to it?
Instead of giving people less resource income during middle game, make it so that they need a good (but not overly expensive) series of stuff that they are willing to expand on.
And that's where it all crumbles. You need to be able to have your products appeal to them without looking like a person who thinks you're a God.
Bollocks. While Greg's an ass quite a lot of times, I do have to admit, he pulled off something amazing.
A decent mid game.
 
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Kyll.Ing.

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I think the crux of the problem (or at least, one of the cruxes) is that people play the game differently. Everybody has their own ideas of fun, or what makes a good game. Some like to shoot for the "God of all the universes" as fast as they can, while others play the humble caveman, slowly making his way towards industry. And that's fine, Minecraft is more of a platform than a game. The ultimate sandbox, where almost everybody have their favourite ways to play, and mods to further diversify it.

Thing is, modders also have their favourite ways to play, and they like to make their mods accordingly. Greg's idea of fun seems to share many elements with mine and many others' (great big machines, search for rare materials, end game content), but parts of his preferred play style also clash with the opinion of many others (hard to acquire basic materials, limited access to powerful technology including that added by other mods), which makes his mod a sort of double-edged sword (I'm sure there is a better anecdote, but English is not my main language and it's late in the evening here. Sword will do for now).

What's the "right" way to play Minecraft? Simply put: Start the game, do whatever you want from there. Whether you like being overpowered or prefer a drawn-out challenge where every machine is a milestone, you can find mods to suit your needs. Or, heck, make them.
Greg did. Many of us loved parts of it. Greg probably loves all of it. That's his opinion. And his mod, so he's free to do with it as he pleases. If you want the stuff he has to offer, you have to take the whole package or use an older version. The choice is yours, and for some, the choice is tough. And the frustration of that toughness is what makes us angry. We want the good parts - whichever parts that is - but not the bad ones. However, it's all or nothing. Tricky question, but that's the question Greg asks.

If you want half-and-half, Greg is sadly not the one to provide it. And we shouldn't be angry because of that.
 

zorn

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Yes, but why not ADAPT to it?
Instead of giving people less resource income during middle game, make it so that they need a good (but not overly expensive) series of stuff that they are willing to expand on.
And that's where it all crumbles. You need to be able to have your products appeal to them without looking like a person who thinks you're a God.
Bollocks. While Greg's an ass quite a lot of times, I do have to admit, he pulled off something amazing.
A decent mid game.

Yes im saying either way works, except with all toher mods being different than gregtech, the other mods ruin any middle game that greg tried to create. Not all mods, many of them though. Greg requires macerators to be crafted with diamonds... people use pulverizers instead. If a group of mods all thought like greg did, id play that pack in a heartbeat.
 

GPuzzle

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I wouldn't play, really. The fact that Pulverizers weren't nerfed made people actually play GT, so, that helped. In fact, the mid game only happened because they could use cheaper options.
 
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DREVL

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got to get to the mid game to enjoy the mid game... GT made it so that you'd quit before you got to midgame.
 
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PsionicArchon

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got to get to the mid game to enjoy the mid game... GT made it so that you'd quit before you got to midgame.

I had absolutely no trouble getting to the to the "mid game" in under a single day's play. I just focused on tin/copper instead of iron/gold early on. In the end, you benefit from this. You can use all of the extra iron laying around to produce more advanced machines while still being able to process ore.

Yes im saying either way works, except with all toher mods being different than gregtech, the other mods ruin any middle game that greg tried to create. Not all mods, many of them though. Greg requires macerators to be crafted with diamonds... people use pulverizers instead. If a group of mods all thought like greg did, id play that pack in a heartbeat.

I like to use steel in my machine recipes now. Thermal Expansion supports swapping iron for steel and, it puts things more in line with Railcraft and Mekanism anyways. Now, all machines require steel.
 

Mashy14

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*sigh* Here's another GT thread that will probably be closed soon.
Anyway, i don't know why everyone gets so mad about such menial things like a (arguably) bad minecraft mod, sure mods are fun, but their not worth getting mad over or slandering someone you don't actually know. Its not real life.
 

zorn

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I wouldn't play, really. The fact that Pulverizers weren't nerfed made people actually play GT, so, that helped. In fact, the mid game only happened because they could use cheaper options.

I'm interested to hear your ideas on how to promote the mid game. Care to share them?

I like to use steel in my machine recipes now. Thermal Expansion supports swapping iron for steel and, it puts things more in line with Railcraft and Mekanism anyways. Now, all machines require steel.

Don't let Kinglemming hear that - he said the sttel recipes were for "masochists". I'm not familiar with the new GT do you just smelt with vanilla furnace until you get steel or are there new things to make until that point? Does a macerator also cost steel? This new GT sounds interesting.[DOUBLEPOST=1387686547][/DOUBLEPOST]
*sigh* Here's another GT thread that will probably be closed soon.
Anyway, i don't know why everyone gets so mad about such menial things like a (arguably) bad minecraft mod, sure mods are fun, but their not worth getting mad over or slandering someone you don't actually know. Its not real life.

Why would this get closed? It's been a very calm thread so far.
 

thephoenixlodge

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I'm interested to hear your ideas on how to promote the mid game. Care to share them?



Don't let Kinglemming hear that - he said the sttel recipes were for "masochists". I'm not familiar with the new GT do you just smelt with vanilla furnace until you get steel or are there new things to make until that point? Does a macerator also cost steel? This new GT sounds interesting.

Yes, all of the 'basic' IC2 machines require steel to make in the 1.6 versions of GT. Basically your first GT machines are made from bronze and form the "bronze age" in which the machines are powered by steam. One of the machines in this age is the bronze blast furnace (multiblock) which produces 1 steel from 1 iron + 4 coal.
 
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PsionicArchon

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Yes, all of the 'basic' IC2 machines require steel to make in the 1.6 versions of GT. Basically your first GT machines are made from bronze and form the "bronze age" in which the machines are powered by steam. One of the machines in this age is the bronze blast furnace (multiblock) which produces 1 steel from 1 iron + 4 coal.

This post pretty much sums it up in terms of steel. You can also power the bronze blast furnace with coal coke or charcoal just like the Railcraft blast furnace. It is EXTREMELY slow though so, you're going to want to build several. I like to use the steam compressor to make blocks of coal then, cook the coal blocks in the Coke Oven. While you're off mining under your base, all of your steel is left cooking above.

Don't let Kinglemming hear that - he said the sttel recipes were for "masochists".
Why would this get closed? It's been a very calm thread so far.

I quite like the tech wall off. Advanced ore doubling is still blocked off and, I don't need to rely on the random chance of locating those early diamonds. Besides, finding them isn't complicated. Just dig at Y level 12, you'll find them eventually. Using steel in everything also makes my pack feel more unified. Mekanism, Thermal Expansion, IC2 and, Railcraft's ore processing machines all use steel. It meshes well, at least for me.
 
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GPuzzle

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Well, zorn, the mod's early game ends up at the mouth of mid-game. There is nothing after that. Just an abismal jump to "God of the Overworld".
The progression in them is good, sure. But they end up at a place where they don't have anything to do.
The point is - Greg's early game machines (compared to the later ones, the Grinder/IBS/Centrifuge are early game) landed just right in mid-game for most people, because it was mid-game in comparison to things like the Pulverizer.
 
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RedBoss

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1.4 GT WAS great for me for many reasons.

1. It made me learn the other mods in the pack. I learned farms with forestry and Steve's Carts. I had an awesome factory with logistics via red power. My boilers were nice and even my steam turbine was awesome. Learning TE gave me flexible, explosion free processing plus a cool way to process extra wood. Heck abandoning GT freed my game time up to get back to exploring. I finally gave Thaumcraft a try. Heck I even had bees setup. All of this was thanks to the fact that I was tired of fooling about with GT. I only used ic2 because I wanted a gravichest plate.

2. I learned configs and how to remove & add mods to a pre-set pack. Again, the goal was a q-suit. I got really sick of the iridium hunt. I learned how to change configs and get back to base IC2. Once I did I was appalled at how simple it was to attain my armor goal. Heck I didn't even want the suit anymore by then. But my aversion to the game style of a pack dominated by GT drove me to learn basic config stuff. I gained enough knowledge to even get my own custom pack going before RR came about in 1.5.

3. I found mods that had greater Returns On Investment for the tedium they required. GT is a tedious mod...TO ME. But tedium can be worth it. Using a TC Arcane bore means you're willing to fight TC's tedium. I preferred that to making a GT blast furnace and gathering GT ores just to make a quarry. I'd rather use this arcane bore because I'll use the other stuff in thaumcraft often. I NEVER used the blast furnace again after making a drill for a quarry. I found other mods to have a better ROI than GT.

I'll never use GT again. Never. But 1.4 GT did make me try other mods outside of IC2. I'm glad of that because it helped me find mods that actually suit my play style. Many of those mods, like Thaumcraft, are even more tedious than GT. But to me, they're actually fun. :)
 
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Mashy14

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I'm interested to hear your ideas on how to promote the mid game. Care to share them?



Don't let Kinglemming hear that - he said the sttel recipes were for "masochists". I'm not familiar with the new GT do you just smelt with vanilla furnace until you get steel or are there new things to make until that point? Does a macerator also cost steel? This new GT sounds interesting.[DOUBLEPOST=1387686547][/DOUBLEPOST]

Why would this get closed? It's been a very calm thread so far.


I am just using past experiences and the fact that most GT threads that I have ever seen have gotten closed. But you are right, this thread has actually been rather calmish.
 

Vauthil

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Yes, there are basically three ways this thread can go:
  • People have a discussion that, while a tad heated, isn't histrionic or flame-y. No need to lock until some point in the far future when the replies have stopped. We like discussions. Really.
  • People have a discussion generally flame-free. Somebody leaps in with the tinder box. People use the Report button on the hair-on-fire person and don't respond to/escalate their burning hair. This is easy to clean up and hand out Warnings on. Thread remains unlocked.
  • People give in to the inevitable flame war dark side. I (or another moderator) look through the thread and go "oh gee, I have to delete half the posts to get this thing back on track". Thread gets locked, because that's a monumental waste of time/bandwidth to salvage.
Bottom line: it's all up to how folks choose to conduct themselves. If everybody exercises a bit of personal restraint this can go a long way.

Ways this thread could have been phrased to make us less easygoing about it:
  • "1.6.x Gregtech sux and Greg should be ashamed."
  • "Anybody who didn't prefer 1.4 Gregtech should commit seppuku immediately."
  • "Ur opinion on Gregtech makes u worse than Hitler."
  • "lol casual noobz"
  • "lol i herd u lik tedium troglodyte"
  • <insert random overblown gossip regarding which mod Greg isn't supposedly playing nice with this week>
Stay away from those bits of rhetorical (lack of) artifice and tail-chasing argument and we're all good. Threads that start off in those territory tend to be the ones that get locked much sooner, alongside perhaps more reasonably started ones that follow immediately on the heels of one of those aforementioned types of thread getting closed. We don't have that problem at the moment (wrangling for the past few months has been generally focused on IC2 experimental itself rather than Gregtech), so I'm quite happy to see this thread continue if it can stay on topic and non-flamey. =)

(And here you all clicked in on seeing my name as most recent reply expecting to see a "Be Nice" admonition, didn't you? ;))