I broke AoE...

[Drbretto]

The TL;DR of that is, you can't, though. Being able to imagine someone else doing it isn't the same as being able to do it. If you don't have the time or inclination to do it, how can you expect it from others? Especially when people are doing this for free.

(The point here, BTW, is that the time it would take to do it IS the part that makes it difficult, right? You have a life and presumably a job and all that, and you don't have the time to spend making this dream pack. Hence, it is too difficult to accomplish. Congratulations, you just played a Minecraft Hardcore pack called real life. It's pretty grindy, though. I'll have to admit that one)

Keep your expectations in line with reality. Otherwise, you're just yelling at the clouds. If there aren't any packs out there like the one you're imagining, then maybe it's not so easy to do it that way after all. It's not like someone just woke up one day and decided that this is what they would call a hardcore pack. This stuff evolves on its own. If you want to set a new standard, get on out there and set it. Doesn't do any good to just complain about it.

 

[Nuclear_Creeper0]

It's possible to make, although it requires some scripting from the invasion mod to work with HQM or whatever base questing mod I go with, and figure out how to get HQM to realize construction of buildings, which might be a bit tricky. Everything else are base mods and Minetweaker. There's a couple of villager based mods out there that let them be able to interact with basic scripting, but most of the villager interaction will be abstracted through HQM, including the supply lines. Basically, you can end up using it to link chest inventories from one village to another so you don't have to keep going back to base to get stuff. If I wanted to 'cheat', I'd probably just use the Quantum Entangled stuff from AE2 to get stuff back and forth. Or instead of villager trade routes, just have the player set up Quantum Bridges at the various villages.

The problem is a) I don't have time to maintain such a large pack (IIRC, AoE is maintained by a team, and still has issues), and b) I would probably be releasing on ATLauncher due to my issues with Curse, which would be a not so insignificant nightmare when it comes to permissions. The time investment is far in excess of the likely popularity of the pack, and I'd likely get far too worked up over someone inevitably jacking it and putting it on the Technic launcher, and I'm already dealing with enough ulcers to put this extra several levels of stress on myself, since it would effectively be a one-man project. It's not that it is impossible, it is that the stress to reward ratio is skewed against it.

You can do a far simpler but broader pack, though. The key here is to require goals other than simply crafting or automation. Automation for the sake of automation is boring. Automation because you want to build something that will stand the test of time, on the other hand, is at least a worthwhile goal. Set up dungeons, either through the Ruins mod (which lets you pre-create entire dungeons to be spaced out as worldgen) or something like DOOMlike Dungeon Generator (from ATM3) and have some resources found only there so you are required to occasionally get your gear and get involved in combat. Probably not low-tech stuff, just things you'll occasionally need because they are required for automation stuff. That's simple enough to do, AoE already does it to a certain extent. And without ExUtil2 or EnderIO, it'll be harder to automate player-interaction drop. Set up megastructure build requirements in your questline.

SOMETHING, for Notch's sake, other than staring at a crafting/machine interface for x hours and calling it 'hardcore'.

The houses would need to be more advanced than villager houses. A villager house can be a door with a piece of dirt behind it.

 

[KingTriaxx]

Thing is, there's a couple of mods capable of doing it. Ancient Warfare can do villager's and trade routes, and Mine Colonies can build the housing. The trick is that as far as I know, AW is 1.7, and Mine Colonies is 1.10. Minecraft Comes Alive can create villages, but detecting the supply routes is then the tricky bit.

I admit, I really like the idea. It's one of the things I've been doing with my 1.7 series. But I've been connecting it all with trains. Admittedly, you could of course just teleport things but that's a bit too easy.

It'd be a bit easier if we had the ability to make Factorio style stations where things could be named and have functions within them, ala Minecolonies housing.

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The TL;DR of that is, you can't, though. Being able to imagine someone else doing it isn't the same as being able to do it. If you don't have the time or inclination to do it, how can you expect it from others? Especially when people are doing this for free.

(The point here, BTW, is that the time it would take to do it IS the part that makes it difficult, right? You have a life and presumably a job and all that, and you don't have the time to spend making this dream pack. Hence, it is too difficult to accomplish. Congratulations, you just played a Minecraft Hardcore pack called real life. It's pretty grindy, though. I'll have to admit that one)

Keep your expectations in line with reality. Otherwise, you're just yelling at the clouds. If there aren't any packs out there like the one you're imagining, then maybe it's not so easy to do it that way after all. It's not like someone just woke up one day and decided that this is what they would call a hardcore pack. This stuff evolves on its own. If you want to set a new standard, get on out there and set it. Doesn't do any good to just complain about it.

I'm also a single individual instead of a team. I don't think I have to tell you about the multiplicative power a team can bring to the table.

Furthermore, I do in fact run and maintain a pack on the ATLauncher, I just don't title it 'hardcore' because it isn't. However, I offer more experiences in my pack than simply automation challenges. I offer a palette of choices for making mega-structures, if that is what you like doing. I give you a plethora of options in both magic and technology. I give you several ways of storing and sorting your goods that don't necessarily involve AE2/RS or EnderIO, although RS and EnderIO are in the 1.10.2 version of ShneekeyCraft for those who prefer that method. I have almost as much cross-mod integration as AoE, and I do it without using Minetweaker. So please, don't tell me I don't know what the heck I am talking about, because I most certainly do.

You want Hardcore? Vech's Super Hostile maps. I think several of them got updated for 1.7.10. THAT is a Hardcore experience, and entirely vanilla. Lethal challenges, puzzles, and a goal of completing the monument. I think only one person ever managed to complete Inferno Mines on Hardcore difficulty (no deaths), and that was Guude. In fact, the original inspiration for ShneekeyCraft was doing something like Super Hostile with mods, similar to the FTB concept. Only instead of purely crafting to make materials to 'feed the beast' with, it was more about heading out into dangerous areas, overcoming challenges, and instead of a 'fleecy box', you get components necessary to build things. In fact, there was a whole plot concerning being washed ashore on an island that had a rogue AI (think GlaDOS or HAL or Red Queen) kill off everyone before it, using Applied Energistics to simulate the item routing systems, with various areas having various supplies. The hydroponics section, infested with dangers, had food. The mines, with its own hazards and perils, including undetonated mining charges that could be set off if one was unwise, had ores. That sort of thing. The 'main base' had a sympathetic AI fragment, but couldn't compete against the Rogue AI until you went out and did certain things manually. Finding hidden 'data cores' (16k storage disks with valuables stored within) were bonus objectives. It used a combination of mods and command blocks to provide a more complete experience.

However, I fail utterly as a map-maker, so instead I simply released a lightweight interconnected pack, ShneekeyCraft. Designed originally as 'introduction to modded minecraft back in the 1.5 era'. And 1.12.1 release, when it comes out, is going back to those roots, using FTBUtils to make a guide to explain to new players How To Modded Minecraft. Introducing basic concepts, where good places to start might be, what this pack offers... that sort of thing. Which is why, in addition to delays due to Hurricane and this thing called Work, Significant Other, and Kiddo, the pack is still in alphadev. I'm trying to strike a delicate balance between presenting information and being a railroad tutorial, I'm aiming at the former not the latter, and that's not the easiest thing to do.

Staring at an interface for hours? That's not challenging, that's not hardcore, that's boring. And that's 95% of what AoE offers. So I stand by my position that while I applaud the mod interconnectivity, it being the first major pack that many people play that actually cares about it instead of just tossing in all the mods into a big kitchen sink and calling it a day like FTB has been known to do, and I absolutely approve of it as a superior (if grindy) pack in general... I don't consider it 'hardcore'.

To do an actual 'hardcore' pack, I would need at least one partner who is good at map design, who is on the same page with me so we can work together, and who has a few months to devote to the project. Or I would need to simply bite the bullet and lrn2map, which is going to take several months before I can even start the process. Either way, I doubt I would have the real life resources to devote to such a project. Which is a shame... one of those checkboxes left blank, I suppose.

 

[Drbretto]

You missed the point. But thanks for the wall of text.

 

[KingTriaxx]

Over thinking it. All you need is to hook on to Roguelike dungeons. Tweak it's final bosses so they're not all withers and then have the loot they drop be the valuable items. Use a lowered frequency of spawning for the dungeons to encourage exploration.

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

You missed the point. But thanks for the wall of text.

I think this is a great time to point out my sig:

This post brought to you in part by: WallO'Text Inc. and viewers like you

 

[Inaeo]

I'm also a single individual instead of a team. I don't think I have to tell you about the multiplicative power a team can bring to the table.

Furthermore, I do in fact run and maintain a pack on the ATLauncher, I just don't title it 'hardcore' because it isn't. However, I offer more experiences in my pack than simply automation challenges. I offer a palette of choices for making mega-structures, if that is what you like doing. I give you a plethora of options in both magic and technology. I give you several ways of storing and sorting your goods that don't necessarily involve AE2/RS or EnderIO, although RS and EnderIO are in the 1.10.2 version of ShneekeyCraft for those who prefer that method. I have almost as much cross-mod integration as AoE, and I do it without using Minetweaker. So please, don't tell me I don't know what the heck I am talking about, because I most certainly do.

You want Hardcore? Vech's Super Hostile maps. I think several of them got updated for 1.7.10. THAT is a Hardcore experience, and entirely vanilla. Lethal challenges, puzzles, and a goal of completing the monument. I think only one person ever managed to complete Inferno Mines on Hardcore difficulty (no deaths), and that was Guude. In fact, the original inspiration for ShneekeyCraft was doing something like Super Hostile with mods, similar to the FTB concept. Only instead of purely crafting to make materials to 'feed the beast' with, it was more about heading out into dangerous areas, overcoming challenges, and instead of a 'fleecy box', you get components necessary to build things. In fact, there was a whole plot concerning being washed ashore on an island that had a rogue AI (think GlaDOS or HAL or Red Queen) kill off everyone before it, using Applied Energistics to simulate the item routing systems, with various areas having various supplies. The hydroponics section, infested with dangers, had food. The mines, with its own hazards and perils, including undetonated mining charges that could be set off if one was unwise, had ores. That sort of thing. The 'main base' had a sympathetic AI fragment, but couldn't compete against the Rogue AI until you went out and did certain things manually. Finding hidden 'data cores' (16k storage disks with valuables stored within) were bonus objectives. It used a combination of mods and command blocks to provide a more complete experience.

However, I fail utterly as a map-maker, so instead I simply released a lightweight interconnected pack, ShneekeyCraft. Designed originally as 'introduction to modded minecraft back in the 1.5 era'. And 1.12.1 release, when it comes out, is going back to those roots, using FTBUtils to make a guide to explain to new players How To Modded Minecraft. Introducing basic concepts, where good places to start might be, what this pack offers... that sort of thing. Which is why, in addition to delays due to Hurricane and this thing called Work, Significant Other, and Kiddo, the pack is still in alphadev. I'm trying to strike a delicate balance between presenting information and being a railroad tutorial, I'm aiming at the former not the latter, and that's not the easiest thing to do.

Staring at an interface for hours? That's not challenging, that's not hardcore, that's boring. And that's 95% of what AoE offers. So I stand by my position that while I applaud the mod interconnectivity, it being the first major pack that many people play that actually cares about it instead of just tossing in all the mods into a big kitchen sink and calling it a day like FTB has been known to do, and I absolutely approve of it as a superior (if grindy) pack in general... I don't consider it 'hardcore'.

To do an actual 'hardcore' pack, I would need at least one partner who is good at map design, who is on the same page with me so we can work together, and who has a few months to devote to the project. Or I would need to simply bite the bullet and lrn2map, which is going to take several months before I can even start the process. Either way, I doubt I would have the real life resources to devote to such a project. Which is a shame... one of those checkboxes left blank, I suppose.

From reading you here, and a few other threads, I have to wonder if you've seen Sprout yet. While it's not exactly what you're proposing, and I'll admit stability is less than I hope it will end up being, it allows for many of the tenants you've described by using a combination of CustomNPCs (all quests are NPC given, rather than HQM or similar), Minecraft Comes Alive, and MineColonies to enhance the village dynamic and encourage the player to deal with, and help out, villages. It also changes the feel of the game to more of an open-world RPG style experience revolving around exploration than any other pack I've played.

The mods are not heavily cross-mod scripted, but there are a few that provide interesting gates without being grindy or a subcrafting nightmare. If you opt for Scavenger Mode (which I highly recommend), armor and many machines become uncraftable - you can find them as drops, dungeon loot, or in NPC shops. Suddenly, earning currency becomes more important than amassing stockpiles of stuff. You can sell wheat for cheap payoff, saddles and horse armor for a bit more, or screw all that and become a dragon hunter.

I'm not saying it's prefect, but it shows what can be done by a sole developer. With more time, or even a like-minded team, I have no doubt it could grow to be something even better. Check it out,if you haven't already - I'd love to hear what your impressions are.

PS. I swear I'm not a paid spokesman for this pack. I can't help but feel I pimp it all the time these days, but when I find something exciting, I can't help but try to share it with others.

 

[Drbretto]

PS. I swear I'm not a paid spokesman for this pack. I can't help but feel I pimp it all the time these days, but when I find something exciting, I can't help but try to share it with others.

You should be on the payroll!

Seriously though, it was a great recommendation. I'm enjoying it.

 

[Nuclear_Creeper0]

From reading you here, and a few other threads, I have to wonder if you've seen Sprout yet. While it's not exactly what you're proposing, and I'll admit stability is less than I hope it will end up being, it allows for many of the tenants you've described by using a combination of CustomNPCs (all quests are NPC given, rather than HQM or similar), Minecraft Comes Alive, and MineColonies to enhance the village dynamic and encourage the player to deal with, and help out, villages. It also changes the feel of the game to more of an open-world RPG style experience revolving around exploration than any other pack I've played.

The mods are not heavily cross-mod scripted, but there are a few that provide interesting gates without being grindy or a subcrafting nightmare. If you opt for Scavenger Mode (which I highly recommend), armor and many machines become uncraftable - you can find them as drops, dungeon loot, or in NPC shops. Suddenly, earning currency becomes more important than amassing stockpiles of stuff. You can sell wheat for cheap payoff, saddles and horse armor for a bit more, or screw all that and become a dragon hunter.

I'm not saying it's prefect, but it shows what can be done by a sole developer. With more time, or even a like-minded team, I have no doubt it could grow to be something even better. Check it out,if you haven't already - I'd love to hear what your impressions are.

PS. I swear I'm not a paid spokesman for this pack. I can't help but feel I pimp it all the time these days, but when I find something exciting, I can't help but try to share it with others.

Learn to put TL DRs in your posts.

 

[Inaeo]

Learn to put TL DRs in your posts.

All due respect, if you don't want to read, a forum is not the place for you. Feel free to skip my long posts if you like - no skin off my back.

 

[Hambeau]

All due respect, if you don't want to read, a forum is not the place for you. Feel free to skip my long posts if you like - no skin off my back.

Sometimes you can't describe things briefly. This is why Twitter and texting in general being used as a "News Source", either officially or not, is such a terrible and possibly culturally fatal idea.

On a less serious note, I saw a post somewhere suggesting that Flat-Earthers be exposed to Minecraft with space mods, to show them they only have 1/6th of the story

 

[Drbretto]

On a less serious note, I saw a post somewhere suggesting that Flat-Earthers be exposed to Minecraft with space mods, to show them they only have 1/6th of the story

Bahaha!

I mean, some part of me is crying on the inside because flat earthers are an actual thing in 2017. But still.

 

[Nuclear_Creeper0]

All due respect, if you don't want to read, a forum is not the place for you. Feel free to skip my long posts if you like - no skin off my back.

What, Im probably on more forums than you. Because I do minecraft PvP and not just modded, Ima on the Hypixel Forum. Normally If a post is really long like a gamemode suggestion, update idea, server suggestion. People do this.
TL : DR I'm on other forums that do it.

 

[Drbretto]

As the someone that's almost certainly on more forums than anyone here, lol..

Dude, it's not about the tl;dr, you were kind of a jerk the way you brought it up. That's what he's reacting to. You don't need to have a tl;dr. His post was in response to shneeky directly, who has so many walls of text that he's got a disclaimer in his sig, and he didn't waste any words putting in the details.

tl;dr: tl;dr's are optional.

 

[Inaeo]

It's a personal philosophy, more than anything. I'm not going to anyone's house, holding a gun to their head, and making them read my posts. If they choose not to, that's their choice. The part that bugs me is the literal translation of "tl;dr" is "Too Long; Didn't Read.". The fact that someone would see a large response and just say, "Nope, too long. I'm not reading that.". Not even to skim through for nuggets of info, nor to see if a valid point of view is brought up, or even a short answer with the details to follow. That comes across as ignorant. I don't make anyone read what I've written, but if you're not going to read it, I'll not be taking any response on the post you claim you wouldn't read with any weight.

I like to think that I organize my thoughts decently. I try to use proper grammar and spelling (my auto-correct and predictive text knows Minecraft better than most). I try not to throw up walls of text, even though I'll admit I can be wordy. But not having the time or will to read three paragraphs (four if you count the PostScript), but still having the time and will to call someone out on the size of the post you wouldn't read seems childish at best.

This is the last I aim to discuss this. Back to the discussion at hand...

 

[KingTriaxx]

I did try this pack, I really wanted to get into it and enjoy it, but I found myself a village, and a great house crafted from a Smithy, and got even enough redstone for a Mekanism tank and used that to pick up lava, and then... ran into a need for diamonds. I have the absolute worst possible luck ever finding diamonds. I spent half an hour mining and found 1 diamond. That brought me up to four, including the three I found in the chest in the blacksmith.

On the other hand, A) Skip the bucket and make the Mekanism tank. It's one more iron and does double duty as a bucket, though it does take a few redstone. And B) for extracting the creosote from the Coke Oven? The Tinker's Faucet will pour into a tank and doesn't leave any liquid stuck in it like some of the piping does.

 

[Hambeau]

It's a personal philosophy, more than anything. I'm not going to anyone's house, holding a gun to their head, and making them read my posts. If they choose not to, that's their choice. The part that bugs me is the literal translation of "tl;dr" is "Too Long; Didn't Read.". The fact that someone would see a large response and just say, "Nope, too long. I'm not reading that.". Not even to skim through for nuggets of info, nor to see if a valid point of view is brought up, or even a short answer with the details to follow. That comes across as ignorant. I don't make anyone read what I've written, but if you're not going to read it, I'll not be taking any response on the post you claim you wouldn't read with any weight.

I like to think that I organize my thoughts decently. I try to use proper grammar and spelling (my auto-correct and predictive text knows Minecraft better than most). I try not to throw up walls of text, even though I'll admit I can be wordy. But not having the time or will to read three paragraphs (four if you count the PostScript), but still having the time and will to call someone out on the size of the post you wouldn't read seems childish at best.

This is the last I aim to discuss this. Back to the discussion at hand...

My last response on this topic... I don't mind "Walls of text" per se. I read fast enough to determine if the subject is something I want to continue reading.

My gripe concerns "Walls" written without regard to things like punctuation, capitalization, sentence structure and separation into paragraphs to make fresh points. Of secondary concern are the usual "Grammar Police" errors.

I've made my share of rambling posts, usually before my morning coffee fix