How to start RotaryCraft?

[Pyure]

Half of these make little sense, and they do not follow the RC progression at all.

From a game-design perspective they make complete sense. The RC progression and realism issues are your issue to sort out (I don't care which machines are considered higher-tier versus another, or whether HSLA steel is better suited to high-torque environments than another type.)[DOUBLEPOST=1396635979][/DOUBLEPOST]

I actually like this idea, it wouldn't require much work to implement and the power loss based on the coil used sounds balanced.

Righto, glad you were able to follow it

 

[Reika]

From a game-design perspective they make complete sense. The RC progression and realism issues are your issue to sort out (I don't care which machines are considered higher-tier versus another, or whether HSLA steel is better suited to high-torque environments than another type.)

Here are some issues I noted:

• I am not going to make there be four or five different kinds of steel
• The steel purifier is not even a core RC machine, but is instead for making HSLA out of RailCraft and mekanism steel
• The blast furnace is the only way to get any other machine, so it cannot have a prerequisite
• Steel is a (comparatively) poor conductor, and adding ceramics like bedrock would only make it worse
• The whole thing can be reduced to machine->item->machine->item->machine->item, which is both boring to play and easy to shortcut

 

[Pyure]

Here are some issues I noted:

I am not going to make there be four or five different kinds of steel.
Three. If you wish to tier your game design, you need a basic tiering denominator. This is a fundamental. Pick another if you hate other types of steel. I noted two obvious routes and picked my favourite. I placed emphasis on the theme of the mod.

The steel purifier is not even a core RC machine, but is instead for making HSLA out of RailCraft and mekanism steel
Correct. I stole an existing machine on purpose, but if its not handy to re-purpose it, re-purpose another or provide another mechanism to let one "improve" steel.

The blast furnace is the only way to get any other machine, so it cannot have a prerequisite
The same prerequisite already exists: you need the ingredients while using it. I do suggest making your grinders not cost steel. I picked the grinder because it makes sense that it could require iron or even stone and still function, and it looks intuitive to a player as an entry-to-rotary machine.

Steel is a (comparatively) poor conductor, and adding ceramics like bedrock would only make it worse
Reika, this is the only comment that is actually irritating. Your bedrock dust in minecraft is a magical element. You already use it as a "better than diamonds" mechanism. Please do not suggest I cannot do the same thing with it. If it benefits from ceramic properties and would make a poor alloy in your lore, simply remove the word "alloy" and call it "coated" or whatever explanation it is that makes it improve your items beyond diamond.

The whole thing can be reduced to machine->item->machine->item->machine->item, which is both boring to play and easy to shortcut
Basic game design can be depressingly simple when mathematically reduced. Tier1 can be shortcut, if you allow coal-dust from another mod (macerator, pulverizer, etc). This was deliberate.


Edited: I keep re-reading your steel/conductivity comment. I'm not looking at any of this from a magnetic-coil perspective or electrically conductive perspective. The "coil tiers" as I've listed them are not supposed to involve magnetism, but simply stored potential spring energy. I have no idea if this is in line with your coil lore. Replace "coil" with an item that benefits from tensile strength or durability as you see fit.

 

[Optibane]

This would be extremely tedious, and the my machines are not designed for power-dependent recipes.

The machine design issue would be a problem, but I would disagree with the tedium. I envision that grinding an ingot would give a full ingot's worth of dust, so even if you need 4 ingredients you only have to grind up 4 things. Also it eases you into it because at the lower tiers you're only combining 2 or 4 dusts. As you learn the mechanics and work your way up the tech tree it gets more complex. So it's a sliding scale within the same framework.

Maybe my idea isn't a winner, and that's ok. Whatever direction you want to go is fine by me. I love the mod, and appreciate that you engage with the players like this.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[keybounce]

A lot of them are things that make your life much easier in the early game:
...

• Autobreeder (Automated animal breeding) @ 16kW
  
• Scaleable Chest (large storage chest) @ 4kW
• Fertilizer (Plant growth acceleration) @ 1kW
• Water Aggregator (Out-of-thin-air water production) @ 8kW

Realism? How does an automated breeder even work? How does scalable storage work -- AE gets around by handwaving "we're storing it as data on a hard drive", but being able to store more in the same space by tossing power at it? A fertilizer ... well, I can see some sort of automated farming stuff -- we've got plenty of commercial green houses and blue houses around here -- just that I hope it's more than just automatic bonemeal out of power.

And water aggregator? (Do you mean the dew point machine?) Please tell me that you're not making water in the nether as easy as water in the desert (I haven't tried it in the nether yet ...). Or, if you are, is there some way to say that water in the nether, as long as it stays in pipes and machines, will be ok, but if it goes into the air it evaporates?

As for helping out in the early game? Water is never an issue once I've gotten iron. By the time I can make/power that, I don't need it.

... has a chance to output more of it's steel, and still isn't really making steel unless you change a config line to make it usable as RC steel.
...What's so groundbreaking here again?

How is this not steel? Look up "hsla steel" on wikipedia. I was surprised to find that this is straight out of real-world stuff myself.

We have a automated farming system that relies on water and fans but doesn't work on everything, ...

The best solution is for modders to make things as configurable as possible.

If I have any complaint with Reika's view on mods, it's that he seems to have a strict view of "This is how it should work". I would not count on a configurable "Fans used on X result in Y" behavior.

With that said, it's not even close to being an issue with Reika alone. Given that a plant can be a block, a block-with-meta-data, a tile entity, or probably something else, it can be hard for an external mod (not the original mod) to control how it breaks. Look at the trouble Aznor had getting golems to farm Pam's stuff properly. Look at how Hunger Overhaul wants to change plants from "Break and they drop everything" to "You don't actually break them, and harvest a little less in return", and note that it did not work on everything for a while.

Recognizing a farmable "block", and being able to treat it as a harvestable thing, is getting to be such a cross-mod issue that Forge needs an API for it to prevent issues like these.

I just found the RC Lava smeltery the other day. -- snip --

Probably the biggest issue with RC: It's big, and there's no clear guide. You can miss things that you don't know about.

... Other than a mod author who has multiple mods designed to work together, their only concern in making mods is their mod+vanilla. How can they possibly plan around what everyone else may or may not do?

See, this is my big issue with Reika. Look at what Jaded did with Magic Farm.

Yes, a mod author cannot make any assumptions about what else is installed. Reika repeatedly mentions this in his thread. But a modpack author can make assumptions, and can want to make changes to the tech tree, the recipes, etc. For most mods / mod authors, that's not a problem. Some make the changes easy to configure; some let (or require) you to use minetweaker, etc.

Reika's view, roughly paraphrased: Thou shall not make the gameplay significantly different than any standard tutorial / introductory video about the mod.

Do I agree with this? No. Do I understand Reika's concern about people turning his high-end machines into donator rewards? Yes. Do I see a good solution? No.

• 9x on nether ore (NetherOres mod, not TiC cobalt, etc)

That I missed. Wow.

Seriously makes it worth harvesting the NO's.

Oh ... did I miss this?

The boring machine ignores liquids, and makes scaffolding to keep liquids out -- so you've got something that drills through soft netherrack just below the lava lake, harvests nether ores without making the pigmen mad, creates a tunnel with scaffolding, so being at the bottom of the lava, you get light in from the lava above you, the lava is kept out, you have no mobs, ...

Am I missing something? It seems easier to get nether ores with the borer; why make it give higher rate of return?

===

Want to make people progress through the mod instead of short circuiting it? Then answer one simple question: Why would anyone use a wood gear box / wood shaft? Very low power transmission, very high lubrication need.

Give that a use, and then see how you have to restructure the mod / progression to make it viable.

 

[Reika]

Realism? How does an automated breeder even work?

It is a tub of food. Animals eat from it, and enter breeding mode.

And water aggregator? (Do you mean the dew point machine?) Please tell me that you're not making water in the nether as easy as water in the desert (I haven't tried it in the nether yet ...). Or, if you are, is there some way to say that water in the nether, as long as it stays in pipes and machines, will be ok, but if it goes into the air it evaporates?

For now, it is restricted to pipes.

If I have any complaint with Reika's view on mods, it's that he seems to have a strict view of "This is how it should work". I would not count on a configurable "Fans used on X result in Y" behavior.

See, this is my big issue with Reika. Look at what Jaded did with Magic Farm.

Yes, a mod author cannot make any assumptions about what else is installed. Reika repeatedly mentions this in his thread. But a modpack author can make assumptions, and can want to make changes to the tech tree, the recipes, etc. For most mods / mod authors, that's not a problem. Some make the changes easy to configure; some let (or require) you to use minetweaker, etc.

Reika's view, roughly paraphrased: Thou shall not make the gameplay significantly different than any standard tutorial / introductory video about the mod.

Do I agree with this? No. Do I understand Reika's concern about people turning his high-end machines into donator rewards? Yes. Do I see a good solution? No.

You have brought this up over 10 times in the last 3 months. It is getting tiresome.

Recognizing a farmable "block", and being able to treat it as a harvestable thing, is getting to be such a cross-mod issue that Forge needs an API for it to prevent issues like these.

I rather doubt that this is possible.

Probably the biggest issue with RC: It's big, and there's no clear guide. You can miss things that you don't know about.

Handbook?

Am I missing something? It seems easier to get nether ores with the borer; why make it give higher rate of return?

Because nether ores do.

Want to make people progress through the mod instead of short circuiting it? Then answer one simple question: Why would anyone use a wood gear box / wood shaft? Very low power transmission, very high lubrication need.

Give that a use, and then see how you have to restructure the mod / progression to make it viable.

It is not the gearboxes I am currently concerned with.

I am not going to make there be four or five different kinds of steel.
Three. If you wish to tier your game design, you need a basic tiering denominator. This is a fundamental. Pick another if you hate other types of steel. I noted two obvious routes and picked my favourite. I placed emphasis on the theme of the mod.

This will add nothing of value, instead even leading to all sorts of "WHY THE F*** ARE THERE THREE KINDS OF STEEL IN ONE MOD" complaints.

The steel purifier is not even a core RC machine, but is instead for making HSLA out of RailCraft and mekanism steel
Correct. I stole an existing machine on purpose, but if its not handy to re-purpose it, re-purpose another or provide another mechanism to let one "improve" steel.

It is wasteful to add one machine purely for the purposes of obtaining another.

The blast furnace is the only way to get any other machine, so it cannot have a prerequisite
The same prerequisite already exists: you need the ingredients while using it. I do suggest making your grinders not cost steel. I picked the grinder because it makes sense that it could require iron or even stone and still function, and it looks intuitive to a player as an entry-to-rotary machine.

No. Absolutely not.

Steel is a (comparatively) poor conductor, and adding ceramics like bedrock would only make it worse
Reika, this is the only comment that is actually irritating. Your bedrock dust in minecraft is a magical element. You already use it as a "better than diamonds" mechanism. Please do not suggest I cannot do the same thing with it. If it benefits from ceramic properties and would make a poor alloy in your lore, simply remove the word "alloy" and call it "coated" or whatever explanation it is that makes it improve your items beyond diamond.

I do not treat bedrock as magical, just with some obscenely high tensile strength. This gives it the hardness and strength seen in its uses.

The whole thing can be reduced to machine->item->machine->item->machine->item, which is both boring to play and easy to shortcut
Basic game design can be depressingly simple when mathematically reduced.

I avoid it as best as I can.

This was deliberate.

And also unacceptable.

Edited: I keep re-reading your steel/conductivity comment. I'm not looking at any of this from a magnetic-coil perspective or electrically conductive perspective. The "coil tiers" as I've listed them are not supposed to involve magnetism, but simply stored potential spring energy. I have no idea if this is in line with your coil lore. Replace "coil" with an item that benefits from tensile strength or durability as you see fit.

No, I do not.
The coils are electromagnetic ones, as the Magnetostatic is an EM-powered engine.

 

[YX33A]

Have you played horizons?? `Snip`

Sorta. I have 98% of the mods in it already in my game, does that count? I don't use two or three mods from it.
Seriously, I barely use the FTB Launcher.

How is this not steel? Look up "hsla steel" on wikipedia. I was surprised to find that this is straight out of real-world stuff myself.

How is it not steel? It's not oreDict Steel, as I said. I know it's real stuff, but in minecraft, steel is a ore dictionary item. Ergo, if HSLA Steel is not registered as Steel in the ore dictionary, it's not the same thing, but this is the basis of my issue here, it's a type of steel in real life, but in minecraft, it is something sorta different.

 

[Reika]

Sorta. I have 98% of the mods in it already in my game, does that count? I don't use two or three mods from it.
Seriously, I barely use the FTB Launcher.

No. The point is that Horizons lacks most of the popular mods, greatly restricting your choices.

How is it not steel? It's not oreDict Steel, as I said. I know it's real stuff, but in minecraft, steel is a ore dictionary item. Ergo, if HSLA Steel is not registered as Steel in the ore dictionary, it's not the same thing, but this is the basis of my issue here, it's a type of steel in real life, but in minecraft, it is something sorta different.

...How is this relevant?

 

[YX33A]

No. The point is that Horizons lacks most of the popular mods, greatly restricting your choices.

...How is this relevant? I used it for a bit as it was made to show off new, underused mods, liked almost all of them, and added a few of the ones I wasn't already using to my game.

...How is this relevant?

Same reason as stated, it's not the same thing in Minecraft.

 

[FTB Xld3]

The extractor and bedrock breaker are obviously valuable and end game. I'm very stingy with my resources too so I'd go straight for the extractor. With an average of 5x the extractor is miles above other machines (that I know of). You could just ruin the extractor or you could have an efficiency system pushing players to upgrade the extractor so it produces more.

There are many ways to go about this. Try something unique to the pack but not too far from FTB. In the end it all needs to be resource or time expensive so don't be afraid to bump up expenses.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

 

[keybounce]

How is it not steel? It's not oreDict Steel, as I said. I know it's real stuff, but in minecraft, steel is a ore dictionary item. Ergo, if HSLA Steel is not registered as Steel in the ore dictionary, it's not the same thing, but this is the basis of my issue here, it's a type of steel in real life, but in minecraft, it is something sorta different.

...How is this relevant?

Perhaps a better question: Why not register your HSLA steel as oredict steel, for use in other mods?

 

[YX33A]

Perhaps a better question: Why not register your HSLA steel as oredict steel, for use in other mods?

Because I'm trying to keep my blood pressure somewhat down but use GregTech. It isn't set to be so by default, anyway, so the point still remains that it's not the same thing to Minecraft and recipes in Minecrafr.

 

[Reika]

...How is this relevant? I used it for a bit as it was made to show off new, underused mods, liked almost all of them, and added a few of the ones I wasn't already using to my game.

The extractor and bedrock breaker are obviously valuable and end game. I'm very stingy with my resources too so I'd go straight for the extractor. With an average of 5x the extractor is miles above other machines (that I know of). You could just ruin the extractor or you could have an efficiency system pushing players to upgrade the extractor so it produces more.

There are many ways to go about this. Try something unique to the pack but not too far from FTB. In the end it all needs to be resource or time expensive so don't be afraid to bump up expenses.

I can understand this reason and am guilty of it myself, but you do have the RC grinder, which is far easier and gets 3x duplication.
Also, the Extractor does not concern me - unless it is the only RC machine you are using -it is people shortcutting to things like jet fuel and the bedrock breaker that bother me.

Perhaps a better question: Why not register your HSLA steel as oredict steel, for use in other mods?

Because it would unbalance RailCraft.

 

[YX33A]

I can understand this reason and am guilty of it myself, but you do have the RC grinder, which is far easier and gets 3x duplication.
Also, the Extractor does not concern me - unless it is the only RC machine you are using -it is people shortcutting to things like jet fuel and the bedrock breaker that bother me.


Because it would unbalance RailCraft.

Shortcutting, you call it? Again, aside from automated farming, and a somewhat cool automated defense block, what do we have to use in RoC before we get jet fuel, or the bedrock breaker? It's not that I would stick with those who don't care about RoC aside from the Extractor... but again, early game has automated farming and a defense block, and a few other somewhat cool things... but that's it. I'd call the extractor mid-game, but I haven't set one up yet due to not finding a good world, so that more of a guess then anything.

 

[DriftinFool]

Sorta. I have 98% of the mods in it already in my game, does that count? I don't use two or three mods from it.
Seriously, I barely use the FTB Launcher.

I have played several of the different packs as they have been released. I was tired of MFR easy mode stuff. I was done with going for a Railcraft boiler. I had been doing mostly the same stuff for several versions of MC. When I started playing Monster, I decided to use the new mods instead for something different. After reading a comment from one of the devs that Horizons was a fairly balanced pack while Monster was not, I moved to Horizons. It runs a whole lot smoother and I wasn't using a lot of the stuff in Monster. I have added a few things and updated a few of the mods to current versions, but CHOOSE to play this pack and I like Rotarycraft. It is a huge mod that is virtually unexplored. I am actually having fun figuring new things out myself instead of running for youtube or a wiki. There will always be another mod that does things better at some point, but what mods people play are up to them. I could add a mod that replaced some of RC's machines, but why. My world and infrastructure are completely different than anything I built before and I like it. If you don't, then don't use it. All your posts come across like you have something against the mod.

 

[YX33A]

I have played several of the different packs as they have been released. I was tired of MFR easy mode stuff. I was done with going for a Railcraft boiler. I had been doing mostly the same stuff for several versions of MC. When I started playing Monster, I decided to use the new mods instead for something different. After reading a comment from one of the devs that Horizons was a fairly balanced pack while Monster was not, I moved to Horizons. It runs a whole lot smoother and I wasn't using a lot of the stuff in Monster. I have added a few things and updated a few of the mods to current versions, but CHOOSE to play this pack and I like Rotarycraft. It is a huge mod that is virtually unexplored. I am actually having fun figuring new things out myself instead of running for youtube or a wiki. There will always be another mod that does things better at some point, but what mods people play are up to them. I could add a mod that replaced some of RC's machines, but why. My world and infrastructure are completely different than anything I built before and I like it. If you don't, then don't use it. All your posts come across like you have something against the mod.

All fair points, but I made bold what I felt might be a bit unneeded. Like, almost an attack at me level unneeded.
I enjoy RoC. It's just that early game is not that different then any other tech mod I've used(except Mek but that's another story). It adds some automated farming and a bit of defense/utility to early game. Yawn. Lets get into the fun and useful stuff. Do I use machines in RoC? Yes. Do I use early tier machines? Yes. Do I use the automated farming bits? No. I go straight for mid-tier(where I place the minimum power level for the extractor stages 2/3), and enjoy the later stuff.

 

[SaintLucifer]

Talking of extractors, have anyone found what is the necessary speed to instantly process the stages 3 and 4? Tested with like around 32k and 64k speed settings, and it seem to never really go that faster.

 

[Reika]

Talking of extractors, have anyone found what is the necessary speed to instantly process the stages 3 and 4? Tested with like around 32k and 64k speed settings, and it seem to never really go that faster.

2M rad/s will do it.

 

[SaintLucifer]

That would be a bit hard, guess i will need a reactor if i want that much speed.

 

[Pyure]

{jabber}

K good luck.