How to start RotaryCraft?

[Reika]

Or male the magnetostatic USE lubricant.

This will not help, as the torque is fixed for all tiers, and as such lubricant (for gearboxes) is already required.

 

[Staxed]

why not break the extractor up into 4 different machines (of which the grinder is already one of them)...and have 2x, 3x, 4x, 5x processing...then gate that by tier. Each item would need to be made with something from the equivalent tier.

Just an idea though, as I have no clue how much work would be needed for that .

 

[Geometry]

Making them expensive does not solve the problem, as that is a resource gate, not an RC progression one. I want to force "you must have made it to X in RotaryCraft". Additionally, only steel of the "material tiers" conducts electricity, so they are useless.

One idea floated was powered crafting, so that you could only craft things with sufficient power, but it is probably still vulnerable to spammed engines and it also requires major rewrites to the worktable.

The most obvious answer is to use things produced by RC machines, for example make the highest tier require bedrock, make the next lower require something from the compactor, the one below that from the pulse jet, and so on. But I have no idea what.

I'd have to agree with using something produced by RC machines. With diamonds, you could just setup a few quarries and have dozens of stacks of them. Unless you want to add a new ore, you should make the engine upgrades use something produced by medium to end game machines; something like a byproduct.

 

[Reika]

why not break the extractor up into 4 different machines (of which the grinder is already one of them)...and have 2x, 3x, 4x, 5x processing...then gate that by tier. Each item would need to be made with something from the equivalent tier.

Just an idea though, as I have no clue how much work would be needed for that .

I am not looking to gate the Extractor.

 

[gattsuru]

If you have ideas, go ahead and suggest them.

The Blast Furnace, the Work Table, a DC Engine (before the Pump), a Gasoline Engine (between fertilizer and jet fuel), the Grinder (between Making Steel and the Extractor chain), so on. I'll try to draw something up in a Mindmap software when I have more opportunity.

More on topic:
Does anyone have any ideas for how to gate magnetostatic upgrades based on RC progression?

Would it be possible to make the Magnetized Coil a right-click or slotted upgrade for the Magnetostatic Engine? That'd at least represent working through RC to the 120 Kw-tier under normal circumstances (and since RF energy is based on redstone power, fits the internal logic).

 

[Staxed]

I am not looking to gate the Extractor.

ah, guess I misunderstood you when you said:

This thread and others like it show a worrying trend - the first machine people often try to run is either the bedrock breaker, the extractor, or the gas turbine. All three of these are further into the techtree than the combustion engine is into BC or the tesseract is into TE3.

Thought that was one of the reasons you were trying to nerf things

 

[Reika]

Would it be possible to make the Magnetized Coil a right-click or slotted upgrade for the Magnetostatic Engine? That'd at least represent working through RC to the 120 Kw-tier under normal circumstances (and since RF energy is based on redstone power, fits the internal logic).

I like the idea, but why 120kW?

 

[gattsuru]

I like the idea, but why 120kW?

... I didn't have Minecraft booted up, and I thought that was roughly what the AC engine puts out?

EDIT: for clarity, you'd want the Magnetostatic + Magnetized Coil to put out significantly more energy than an AC Engine, or it'd make more sense to just build AC Engines. But it'd be a rough guideline for what sort of performance you'd want, and even the worst-case behavior of using Magnetostatics to run the Magnetizer would still give at least introduce people to the tech chain.

 

[Wagon153]

... I didn't have Minecraft booted up, and I thought that was roughly what the AC engine puts out?

Heh, I wish.

 

[danidas]

Or male the magnetostatic USE lubricant. Damn that would be evil. But encourage other engines.

To be really evil he would need to make them require cryotheum as a coolant and liquid redstone to run. As well as throwing in some resonant ender and blazing pyrotheum for the higher tiers.

 

[abculatter_2]

I like the idea, but why 120kW?

How about adding two or more tiers, which would work like this:
Lower-tier magnetostatic acts kind of like a highly efficient AC engine, using RF to de-magnetize a magnetized coil with much greater efficiency. This coil could also maintain the current on-demand redstone on/off switch. Obviously, using higher amounts of power should de-magnetize the coil more quickly, perhaps with an exponential growth function to determine how quickly, so spending very large amounts of energy from one of these magnetostatics could actually be less efficient then simply putting the coil in an AC engine.
The higher-to-mid tier would work similarly to how the current one works, and/or requires you to use an external engine to begin the spinning process. Once you've gotten it spinning, though, it will automatically spin up or down to shift its power output to what you set in the GUI, with lower powers being less responsive then higher ones. This magnetostatic would also maintain redstone on/off states, but turning it off obviously means you have to spin it back up to the power you set.

This would mean that the lower-tier one would be useful for machines that you don't run all the time, as you can quickly and easily turn the power on/off without any energy loss. It would, however, suffer from large inefficiencies at high power outputs, to the point of no longer being practical.

The higher one, on the other hand, would be best for those machines you run constantly, or if you need a large amount of power that the lower-tier one can't provide. It does, however, loose the convenience of a loss-less on/off switch, as it takes time and energy for it to spin up and down.

(Sorry if I'm over-explaining, by the way. I'm tired, and want to make sure my ideas are expressed properly.)

 

[Optibane]

More on topic:
Does anyone have any ideas for how to gate magnetostatic upgrades based on RC progression?

What do you think of using higher power levels to produce increasingly fine ore dusts? Finer dusts could be combined at more specific ratios to create stronger alloys or something. I'm thinking of the various grades of steel depending on the carbon content and other additives. It's realistic, but would have to be made simple enough that it's not just a bunch of busy work.


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I didn't see any comments from @Reika on this idea, but I think it would fit well and help resolve the issue with people jumping to the endgame.

Imagine grinding a steel ingot into two steel dust halves. These could be combined with coal dust halves to make a slightly stronger steel alloy for the next tier of machines. Once you have power gen for that tier you feed that into the same grinder machine and the extra power allows you to get four steel dust quarters (ie. it allows you to grind the material into a finer dust). If you combine with coal dust quarters in a 3:1 ratio you get another alloy that is stronger and opens up the third tier of machines.

This process continues as you advance up the tech tree and eventually you are using maybe 64th dusts and can combine steel, coal, bedrock, diamond etc in fractions that add up to one full ingot. Depending on the ratios that you're using you can change the properties of the ingot produced... Maybe you want hardness, malleability, electromagnetic properties, etc.

This would require a new or repurposed grinder to create the dusts as well as a new machine where you input your dusts and outputs your ingots.

Any thoughts?


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[Pyure]

{ideas}

Optibane, can you clarify how the RC-specific systems are influencing each level of your tech tree? I see resource-tiering, but we're considering ways of using the RC systems themselves to manage tiering (or gating, as Reika calls it)

 

[Optibane]

Optibane, can you clarify how the RC-specific systems are influencing each level of your tech tree? I see resource-tiering, but we're considering ways of using the RC systems themselves to manage tiering (or gating, as Reika calls it)

My idea is an attempt to push players through the tech tree as originally intended. They would need to build progressively more powerful engines (or spam a ton of lower tier engines) to open up the next level.

A specific example might be the magnetostatic, which also happens to be the main short-circuit in progression. It could have a single inventory slot where you insert a magnetized coil. Initially this could be a simple copper coil and would have a very low efficiency (low output). As you move up the tech tree you are able to grind copper into a finer dust and create an alloy with copper and, say magnetite for example. This would have better magnetic properties and allow a higher efficiency coil to be made for the magnetostatic. After a few steps up the ladder with better and better coils, the magnetostatic would be powerful enough to run the bedrock breaker.

I understand that this would be a very big change and a lot of work for reika. The problem with gating based on machine outputs is that it only adds one or two stumbling blocks to progression as opposed to funnelling progression into a more directed path. I can see players just building machine x because it makes material y for a powerful magnetostatic, and then ever touching that machine again.

Sorry, I'm very wordy today :s


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[Wagon153]

My idea is an attempt to push players through the tech tree as originally intended. They would need to build progressively more powerful engines (or spam a ton of lower tier engines) to open up the next level.

A specific example might be the magnetostatic, which also happens to be the main short-circuit in progression. It could have a single inventory slot where you insert a magnetized coil. Initially this could be a simple copper coil and would have a very low efficiency (low output). As you move up the tech tree you are able to grind copper into a finer dust and create an alloy with copper and, say magnetite for example. This would have better magnetic properties and allow a higher efficiency coil to be made for the magnetostatic. After a few steps up the ladder with better and better coils, the magnetostatic would be powerful enough to run the bedrock breaker.

I understand that this would be a very big change and a lot of work for reika. The problem with gating based on machine outputs is that it only adds one or two stumbling blocks to progression as opposed to funnelling progression into a more directed path. I can see players just building machine x because it makes material y for a powerful magnetostatic, and then ever touching that machine again.

Sorry, I'm very wordy today :s


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This poses the same problem as using a powered worktable. As you said yourself, players would spam lower tier engines.

 

[Optibane]

This poses the same problem as using a powered worktable. As you said yourself, players would spam lower tier engines.

I can see a couple of ways around this:

1) Make the energy requirements for the tiers far enough apart that it becomes impractical to chain that many engines. If you need to chain 16 steam engines to get to the next tier I think many players would rather make gas engines (or course many would still make the 16 engines, which brings me to option 2)

2) limit the number of power sources that can be chained together somehow. If I can only have 15 engines connected to an output and need 16 engines combined to produce enough power to get to the next tier, I have no choice but to make the proper engine.


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[Kotaro]

Could you not require the use of permanent magnets in the making of a magnetostatic engine? It'd make it so that you're required to have a compressor which requires bedrock.

Actually, I think that lodestone is ReactorCraft, so that may not be an option. Maybe you could use compressed redstone of some sort? It'd keep your mod engines similar to where they have a bit of "flavor" for the mod that they're working off of.

 

[Pyure]

Reika's looking for a tiering mechanism.

Maybe you creative folks can run with something like this. Its a really basic tiering system based on RC. It places a bit more emphasis on steel and doesn't require new coding (just new items and recipes). Note that the "unlocks" are RC-specific rather than resource- or grind-specific.

Using: Grinder Provides: Coal Dust Which Unlocks: Blast furnace
Using: Blast Furnace Provides: Low-Carbon (LC) Steel Which Unlocks: Heater, Tier 2 Coil (LC Steel, 40% magneto-loss)
Using: Heater Provides: More Heat to Blast Furnace Which Unlocks: Nickel-Chromium (NC) Steel, Tier 3 Coil (20% magneto loss)
Using: NC Steel (ingredient) Provides: Steel Purifier Which Unlocks: HSLA Steel, Tier 4 Coil (5% Magneto Loss)
Using: HSLA Steel (ingredient) Provides: Bedrock Breaker Which Unlocks: Bedrock Dust, Tier 5 Coil (Bedrock steel alloy, 0% Magneto loss)

Edit: I lied; adding a slot to a magnetostatic engine to hold a tiered coil and basing its efficiency off that will require some minor coding.

 

[Geometry]

Reika's looking for a tiering mechanism.

Maybe you creative folks can run with something like this. Its a really basic tiering system based on RC. It places a bit more emphasis on steel and doesn't require new coding (just new items and recipes). Note that the "unlocks" are RC-specific rather than resource- or grind-specific.

Using: Grinder Provides: Coal Dust Which Unlocks: Blast furnace
Using: Blast Furnace Provides: Low-Carbon (LC) Steel Which Unlocks: Heater, Tier 2 Coil (LC Steel, 40% magneto-loss)
Using: Heater Provides: More Heat to Blast Furnace Which Unlocks: Nickel-Chromium (NC) Steel, Tier 3 Coil (20% magneto loss)
Using: NC Steel (ingredient) Provides: Steel Purifier Which Unlocks: HSLA Steel, Tier 4 Coil (5% Magneto Loss)
Using: HSLA Steel (ingredient) Provides: Bedrock Breaker Which Unlocks: Bedrock Dust, Tier 5 Coil (Bedrock steel alloy, 0% Magneto loss)

I actually like this idea, it wouldn't require much work to implement and the power loss based on the coil used sounds balanced.

 

[Reika]

... I didn't have Minecraft booted up, and I thought that was roughly what the AC engine puts out?

EDIT: for clarity, you'd want the Magnetostatic + Magnetized Coil to put out significantly more energy than an AC Engine, or it'd make more sense to just build AC Engines. But it'd be a rough guideline for what sort of performance you'd want, and even the worst-case behavior of using Magnetostatics to run the Magnetizer would still give at least introduce people to the tech chain.

...The magnetizer only requires 16kW.

To be really evil he would need to make them require cryotheum as a coolant and liquid redstone to run. As well as throwing in some resonant ender and blazing pyrotheum for the higher tiers.

That would be gating with progression through TE3.

2) limit the number of power sources that can be chained together somehow. If I can only have 15 engines connected to an output and need 16 engines combined to produce enough power to get to the next tier, I have no choice but to make the proper engine.

This is absolutely out of the question.

Could you not require the use of permanent magnets in the making of a magnetostatic engine? It'd make it so that you're required to have a compressor which requires bedrock.

Actually, I think that lodestone is ReactorCraft, so that may not be an option. Maybe you could use compressed redstone of some sort? It'd keep your mod engines similar to where they have a bit of "flavor" for the mod that they're working off of.

No, magnetite and lodestone are in ReactorCraft only.

I didn't see any comments from @Reika on this idea, but I think it would fit well and help resolve the issue with people jumping to the endgame.

Imagine grinding a steel ingot into two steel dust halves. These could be combined with coal dust halves to make a slightly stronger steel alloy for the next tier of machines. Once you have power gen for that tier you feed that into the same grinder machine and the extra power allows you to get four steel dust quarters (ie. it allows you to grind the material into a finer dust). If you combine with coal dust quarters in a 3:1 ratio you get another alloy that is stronger and opens up the third tier of machines.

This process continues as you advance up the tech tree and eventually you are using maybe 64th dusts and can combine steel, coal, bedrock, diamond etc in fractions that add up to one full ingot. Depending on the ratios that you're using you can change the properties of the ingot produced... Maybe you want hardness, malleability, electromagnetic properties, etc.

This would require a new or repurposed grinder to create the dusts as well as a new machine where you input your dusts and outputs your ingots.

Any thoughts?

This would be extremely tedious, and the my machines are not designed for power-dependent recipes.

Reika's looking for a tiering mechanism.

Maybe you creative folks can run with something like this. Its a really basic tiering system based on RC. It places a bit more emphasis on steel and doesn't require new coding (just new items and recipes). Note that the "unlocks" are RC-specific rather than resource- or grind-specific.

Using: Grinder Provides: Coal Dust Which Unlocks: Blast furnace
Using: Blast Furnace Provides: Low-Carbon (LC) Steel Which Unlocks: Heater, Tier 2 Coil (LC Steel, 40% magneto-loss)
Using: Heater Provides: More Heat to Blast Furnace Which Unlocks: Nickel-Chromium (NC) Steel, Tier 3 Coil (20% magneto loss)
Using: NC Steel (ingredient) Provides: Steel Purifier Which Unlocks: HSLA Steel, Tier 4 Coil (5% Magneto Loss)
Using: HSLA Steel (ingredient) Provides: Bedrock Breaker Which Unlocks: Bedrock Dust, Tier 5 Coil (Bedrock steel alloy, 0% Magneto loss)

Edit: I lied; adding a slot to a magnetostatic engine to hold a tiered coil and basing its efficiency off that will require some minor coding.

Half of these make little sense, and they do not follow the RC progression at all.