How do you like mods to be balanced?
- Thread starter The_Technomancer
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Comparing straight to BC, this is a reasonable interpretation. Comparing to itself, however, it quickly becomes a tedious chore to have 1 dynamo per machine. Power usage in TE is way higher and the crafting a fair bit more involved, so the 1:1 comparison is accurate numerically but sort of misses the mark in terms of gameplay. Mod balance is a tricky beast. The resources added by TF are actually pretty scarce when it comes down to it, and that's one aspect that a lot of people miss. Unfortunately we have to balance in a bit of a vacuum, so the best thing we can do is open up options for people to tweak in their own way.
I'm also not crazy about the idea of millions of RF/t. I in no way support that. TE scales to 640 RF/t generated on Dynamos - with a large efficiency hit - and 8000 RF/t consumed on the currently most expensive machine. That's 12.5 fully upgraded Dynamos to run a single machine. I don't feel like scaling has been lost there.
I can sort of sympathize on the QoL front, although my design goals have been to reduce needless tedium while preserving complexity. It's a hard line to walk, but it's the reason that Thermal Dynamics doesn't have an omni-duct - it goes too far the other way and is boring. Tesseracts fill that role while costing quite a bit, and are less capable in many ways, so there's at least a tradeoff.
I'm not really understanding the Augment thing. It's thematically different from Upgrades in how they stack and alter the operation of the device. Also, you'll be able to Augment yourself in the future.
This is totally fair and I agree with it. It's a sandbox and you should be allowed to play your way, within reason.
We can't accommodate everything, but options such as base RF is fine.For me personally, the wood/stone gear levels just didn't feel right. Thematically, those don't make sense as the base of a stronger gear, and gameplay-wise, the materials are free, so as you've pointed out, the only thing added is tedium.
I definitely like how TE does things. Enderium is a perfect example: to make it, you have to utilize parts of the mod you might not otherwise (pyrotheum dust). And to make a lot of it, you have to utilize other parts of the mod to make pulverized shiny metal less rare. With things like iron, lead, tin, etc., you can get by just on mining; you don't really need to upgrade your machines or add any augments. But to get enough shiny metal to make as much enderium as you want, you need those augments, in multiple machines. First the pulverizer for stockpiling cinnabar, then the induction smelter for the shiny metal itself. I really like when mods make you explore all their parts and have the parts all work together like that.
I just dont like being able to upgrade the Dynamo's themselves, I would be fine with the machines I just don't think power gen should beable to change its tier with a few small changes. I know this is asking much but, if in a later update you could add a config option to allow people to disallow augments on dynamo's I'd really appreciate it (I think it should just be the Augment's tab doesn't exist for the Dynamos).I'm not really understanding the Augment thing. It's thematically different from Upgrades in how they stack and alter the operation of the device. Also, you'll be able to Augment yourself in the future.
I get that it doesn't make sense but I just liked the feeling I got from it, also I wanted to note ;3 Enderium Gears require Signalum Gears which require Diamond Gears (I'm such an arse).
TE started out as a BC addon. And I always felt that the coils would be an excellent assembly table material. So I made an interesting change, I removed the coil recipies and added them to the BC assembly table. Tada, TE dynamo's now make sense being stronger. TE itself is behind BC in the "tech tree". Just feels right to me
I also realy didnt like the gear to gear to gear stuff of BC. Thankfully you can make gears with TiC. So I removed the recipies, use TiC and added all gears to the assembly table aswell with a slight discount. Minetweaker = fun times <3
I also realy didnt like the gear to gear to gear stuff of BC. Thankfully you can make gears with TiC. So I removed the recipies, use TiC and added all gears to the assembly table aswell with a slight discount. Minetweaker = fun times <3
For me personally I don’t like how Buildcraft does the whole gear thing, it’s just boring and seems lazy. They could of made it require a machine to build the higher level gears but to add tedium just to make recipes harder isn’t fun.
I got nothing against tedium, its fine if the item or machine is OP as it's an achievement.
Meh, it isn't too bad of a balancing tactic. But I think a cooler thing would be to have an electroplating machine for the gears, this would bring energy into the equation so you build your base gear, maybe you use iron gears and then plate them with other, so gold, diamond, copper, bronze?, and all the other metals. Just put the gear and 4 ingots and then maybe water or to make it harder use acid in and then power it up
Funny how Buildcraft did it like this since 2011, yet it's only now people complain about it when given an easier alternative.
It's a tradition. BuildCraft has had gears like that for four years now, changing it would be like removing the quarry.
And we're not GregTech. We don't need machines to craft all the things. Most base stuff should be achievable with just a crafting table, also keep in mind that the quarry must not be end-game.
RF is whatever you want it to be.
This is something I've really loved about Buildcraft: the simplicity. It's a different kind of simplicity than, say, MFR; it's a very scalable kind of simplicity. The recipes for things are incredibly easy (want pipes? Glass and cobble. Want autocrafting? Crafting table and gears), and it really makes it seem close to vanilla. Within the first night, you can set up an automatic sorting system (input chest, clay pipes, and a row of barrels or storage drawers). But it can go so far beyond that. Individually, all the pieces are simple, but with lots of pieces all working together you can do some really complex stuff. That is the absolute best approach to automation in modded Minecraft to me. It's as easy and basic as you need it to be, or as capable and complex.
Maybe for you. We balance BuildCraft thinking of BuildCraft alone, modpacks are the ones responsible for balancing it within packs.
Well I think pairing it with the Induction Smelter from TE or the Alloy Smelter from EnderIO(Using the XML File) and ModTweaker will be my balancing in packs from now on. I don't like things to be too simple. ;P
For me it's about having alternative recipes. One version that is quite manual and resource inefficient, and then other versions that are more efficient when using other machines/machine products, combined with resource management. Every block built should have an ongoing use and feel like an achievement to craft (without the grind).
In my modpack, I'm on minecraft day 70ish and have just built a sag mill (finally! Grindstone begone!) and induction smelter, before that was a redstone furnace, and before that a Rolling Machine and Mekanism Infuser. I now have the ability to create plastics (for more advanced things) using a highly inefficient recipe while I try and find the resources needed for a PnumaticCraft refinery.
Then I might start thinking about automation, if I have the resources (Iron, where for art though Iron?) and/or building a TiC Smeltery.
At the same time I'm trying to get a Botania/Magical crop area setup (mana repairing tools would be a great saving in resources, and growable resources a big help (heavily tweaked though)), dealing with pitch black nights, and the occasional Blood Moon, oh, and also keeping myself fed and watered. So far I have a manasteel pickaxe, poor mana generation, one obsidian seed, and one dye seed. Can't wait to get my first Iron Seed.
Because of my changes, I feel I'm having to actually use the other mods to achieve my goals hunting around in NEI for alternatives. I'm problem solving instead of having things just handed to me (which since 1.4 is the way the modded scene seems to be heading)
With regards to the OP, I guess I'm in the "Easy once you have the infrastructure" along with a bit of "Lots of resources". Don't go for long crafting chains or insane recipes (like Steve's Carts, I tweaked that to break a lot of long crafting chains, and made many key component recipes more straightforward).
With regards to what has been mentioned last few posts:
Gears - I disabled the TiC option, along with using many mods resources in the smeltery. That's just way too much "power" and "ease" for a simple to craft ore doubling and powerful weapon/tool system (Pretty much many of the recent updates in TiC I've been disabling). Instead for Gears I tweaked the recipes to be similar to BC Wood>Stone>Iron or Invar or Ferrous Gears, and then from those 3 to Gold, Silver, Diamond (for example). I also use Gears instead of ingots in recipes.
RF Generation - I see no need for insane amounts of RF generation, and is one the things I lower in many mods (and/or up usage of RF). I want a powerplant that takes up space, something to actually build beyond a single block. The "Ooooh, look at these big numbers being produced by this one block" doesn't impress me, a large powerplant does.
TE Augments - by default, no TE machine has any Augments. They are basically the "early" tier of machine, so basically "dumb blocks" that can be upgraded. As a result, their recipes are a lot more simpler. Other mods that have inbuilt "augments" have more complex recipes which once you've built the supporting infrastructure will be easy to craft. Also tweaked the Augment recipes to be a bit more expensive.
Thermal Dynamics - likewise, all the different servo's, retrivers, etc have also had a big increase in recipe cost to reflect their functionality. I just felt they were too cheap.
In my modpack, I'm on minecraft day 70ish and have just built a sag mill (finally! Grindstone begone!) and induction smelter, before that was a redstone furnace, and before that a Rolling Machine and Mekanism Infuser. I now have the ability to create plastics (for more advanced things) using a highly inefficient recipe while I try and find the resources needed for a PnumaticCraft refinery.
Then I might start thinking about automation, if I have the resources (Iron, where for art though Iron?) and/or building a TiC Smeltery.
At the same time I'm trying to get a Botania/Magical crop area setup (mana repairing tools would be a great saving in resources, and growable resources a big help (heavily tweaked though)), dealing with pitch black nights, and the occasional Blood Moon, oh, and also keeping myself fed and watered. So far I have a manasteel pickaxe, poor mana generation, one obsidian seed, and one dye seed. Can't wait to get my first Iron Seed.
Because of my changes, I feel I'm having to actually use the other mods to achieve my goals hunting around in NEI for alternatives. I'm problem solving instead of having things just handed to me (which since 1.4 is the way the modded scene seems to be heading)
With regards to the OP, I guess I'm in the "Easy once you have the infrastructure" along with a bit of "Lots of resources". Don't go for long crafting chains or insane recipes (like Steve's Carts, I tweaked that to break a lot of long crafting chains, and made many key component recipes more straightforward).
With regards to what has been mentioned last few posts:
Gears - I disabled the TiC option, along with using many mods resources in the smeltery. That's just way too much "power" and "ease" for a simple to craft ore doubling and powerful weapon/tool system (Pretty much many of the recent updates in TiC I've been disabling). Instead for Gears I tweaked the recipes to be similar to BC Wood>Stone>Iron or Invar or Ferrous Gears, and then from those 3 to Gold, Silver, Diamond (for example). I also use Gears instead of ingots in recipes.
RF Generation - I see no need for insane amounts of RF generation, and is one the things I lower in many mods (and/or up usage of RF). I want a powerplant that takes up space, something to actually build beyond a single block. The "Ooooh, look at these big numbers being produced by this one block" doesn't impress me, a large powerplant does.
TE Augments - by default, no TE machine has any Augments. They are basically the "early" tier of machine, so basically "dumb blocks" that can be upgraded. As a result, their recipes are a lot more simpler. Other mods that have inbuilt "augments" have more complex recipes which once you've built the supporting infrastructure will be easy to craft. Also tweaked the Augment recipes to be a bit more expensive.
Thermal Dynamics - likewise, all the different servo's, retrivers, etc have also had a big increase in recipe cost to reflect their functionality. I just felt they were too cheap.
Well, I like having long term worlds and a reason to build new areas for infastructure but at the same time it can be annoying early game. Until I get a decent mining tool, flight, and a way to return home quickly and drop off my stuff without having to manually sort, the game is frustrating as heck.
I'm not a fan of flight (except for when I'm filling out a map, then I just go to creative mode), since I do think it discourages infrastructure a bit. In an Extreme Hills biome near a giant cliff between you and a village? Better tunnel through it and build a road or a rail line too, if you don't want to go through half of your food every trip. Or, make a jetpack.
What I find helps me is carrying a satchel/knapsack/backpack (depending on what mod) full of cobblestone and a crafting table. This way I have materials to mark out a path as I go and to make stairs or slabs when I need. Then later on I can actually make the road out of whatever I want and replace the cobble.
I had an idea for a pack that removed the ability to fly easily. (I codenamed it "Grounded") But making a pack without flying is difficult as so many major mods add flying items.
Only thing I could think of is ModTweaking them out or increasing the cost of their fuel by 10.
Also some builder types find that for elaborate builds hovver flight is essential. So the pack might not be that great of an idea.
Unless someone was to make a dedicated scaffold mod. One that adds just IC2 style scaffolds an other builder utilities. I use Artifice for that purpose but i made the mistake of not turning the extra world gen adding multicolored cobble off. Now I need like 12 dev nulls. Maybe OpenBlocks should add an item that can hold multiple dev/nulls inside and still function.
That's another thing I hate, not really a mechanic but mods that insist on adding a bajillion new types of cobble. It makes early game mining a PITA without some form of backpack.
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