Gregtech recipes = ridiculous?

[urmamasllama]

its funny at first i didn't like greg techs rebalancing so i disabled it. then i got pretty far into late game really fast and started to gain some appreciation for what gregtech is was trying to do.

when 1.4.5 comes out im resetting my server going back to the harder recipes and disabling quarrys so if people want to power mine it has to be ic2 miners or frame machines

 

[makeshiftwings]

Don't forget that the quarry no longer uses a diamond Pick, but a diamond drill.

And the basic Solar Panel now needs the industrial blast furnace and centrifuge to make. IT's almost like he keeps moving the goal posts. I'm beginning to think he is doing it for the lulz.

I'm thinking that too. Well, even if not just for the lulz, I think every time he makes one method of automation too unwieldy for anyone to choose, the community will switch to something else, and then he'll make THAT mostly unusable as well.

I think we should just skip all the foreplay and make it so that a crafting table requires 7000 diamond blocks. It's CHALLENGING, you cowards!

 

[WTFFFS]

I'm thinking that too. Well, even if not just for the lulz, I think every time he makes one method of automation too unwieldy for anyone to choose, the community will switch to something else, and then he'll make THAT mostly unusable as well.

I think we should just skip all the foreplay and make it so that a crafting table requires 7000 diamond blocks. It's CHALLENGING, you cowards!

Except that's ridiculous, the gregtech recipe changes make sense in the context of "adding a level of complexity" (which btw is his stated aim right in the heading of his thread on the IC2 forums) and also in the context of materials used. I do also believe he is a troll of epic proportions in specific matters simply for teh lulz that doesn't change my opinion that his changes make sense and increase the playable time of a world both in slowing down how long things take to get and also in giving somewhere a little further TO go. There is also a sense of accomplishment in creating a decent processing setup which was\is seriously lacking in "throw down 2 macerators\3 furnaces(upgrade when mats allow), power it off a geothermal with solar for standby, MFE for loaded times, done".

 

[makeshiftwings]

Except that's ridiculous, the gregtech recipe changes make sense in the context of "adding a level of complexity" (which btw is his stated aim right in the heading of his thread on the IC2 forums) and also in the context of materials used. I do also believe he is a troll of epic proportions in specific matters simply for teh lulz that doesn't change my opinion that his changes make sense and increase the playable time of a world both in slowing down how long things take to get and also in giving somewhere a little further TO go. There is also a sense of accomplishment in creating a decent processing setup which was\is seriously lacking in "throw down 2 macerators\3 furnaces(upgrade when mats allow), power it off a geothermal with solar for standby, MFE for loaded times, done".

I think that the "throw down 2 macerators...." thing only seems old and boring now because you've done it a bunch of times and it's not new and exciting anymore. When I first started using IC2 I was pretty proud of my first factory! The new "throw down a centrifuge..." route seems shiny and complex now because the mod just came out, but I'd imagine after your 50th centrifuge it too will seem boring and not much of an accomplishment. In the end you're still just putting blocks in blocks to build things out of blocks. I think it's great to add new things to do, but going in and making someone else's mod really hard to use doesn't sit well with me.

 

[makeshiftwings]

Also... I think people need to remember that there will be new players and inexperienced players using the mod pack who don't have all of IC memorized already. To them, there already is a "level of complexity" in that they have to go read the IC wiki and figure everything out and plug their batbox in the wrong way and forget to set their wrench to lossless mode. There's plenty of complexity there already. IC only seems simple to people who've already played it to death. I think that GT adding yet another layer on top of that to invalidate the existing wiki and all the IC help out there is just going to make it overly confusing to new players.

GT in the context of FTB also turns a lot of IC's content into "traps"; the recipes are purposefully so expensive that smart players will never build them until they have so many resources that they can throw diamonds around like candy and don't really need the machines for anything anymore. No one will build IC machines at the beginning when TE is so much cheaper. You'll only bother with IC when you decide you want to make a Fusion Reactor just for kicks.

 

[WTFFFS]

Also... I think people need to remember that there will be new players and inexperienced players using the mod pack who don't have all of IC memorized already. To them, there already is a "level of complexity" in that they have to go read the IC wiki and figure everything out and plug their batbox in the wrong way and forget to set their wrench to lossless mode. There's plenty of complexity there already. IC only seems simple to people who've already played it to death. I think that GT adding yet another layer on top of that to invalidate the existing wiki and all the IC help out there is just going to make it overly confusing to new players.

GT in the context of FTB also turns a lot of IC's content into "traps"; the recipes are purposefully so expensive that smart players will never build them until they have so many resources that they can throw diamonds around like candy and don't really need the machines for anything anymore. No one will build IC machines at the beginning when TE is so much cheaper. You'll only bother with IC when you decide you want to make a Fusion Reactor just for kicks.

Throw diamonds around like candy? I can do that as soon as I get a fortune pick I have 2 stacks and I just made a linkbook modifier (stack of diamonds required). Iron on the other hand is used by everything and in job lots. Yeah you really don't need any of the IC machines, until in later revisions of Gregtech you want a diamond drill and Titanium is required to craft it which requires you to have an industrial blast furnace which requires IC2 processing to craft some components. TE machines aren't so much cheaper to me anyway I enabled the expensive recipes for them, meh it's only some extra diamonds which have bugger all value really, let me put it this way I've never looked at my chests and said "better go mining I'm out of diamonds", yet I'm constantly saying that about Iron (and have transmuted more than a few diamonds into iron via ee3).
I still think new and inexperienced players are in the best place to learn with Gregtech enabled they don't have the easymode experience to fall back on an industrial electrolyser is as mystifying to craft and use as a macerator to a person who is not used to techmods and just as easily understood in the same way, use NEI. As far as wiki's go FTB's own is apparently a wip at this current time which should alleviate some of the problem since it will be written with the idea that Gregtech is enabled.

 

[stickmansam1]

gregtech to me made the solar pannels and mining drill useless because it took way to long to find a nether fortress (crappy nether spawn) it took more time to get a mining drill i used for like 2 seconds before getting an mfe for my minign laser and needing an industrial centrifuge for solar panels? why not just dig straight down until you die in lava then throw a pump and geothermal generator at it. i literally skipped part of the IC tree because gregtech made it "more complex."

 

[Pinkishu]

gregtech to me made the solar pannels and mining drill useless because it took way to long to find a nether fortress (crappy nether spawn) it took more time to get a mining drill i used for like 2 seconds before getting an mfe for my minign laser and needing an industrial centrifuge for solar panels? why not just dig straight down until you die in lava then throw a pump and geothermal generator at it. i literally skipped part of the IC tree because gregtech made it "more complex."

Lava doesn't last forever See thats the big diff, solar you set and never care about _ever_ lava you actually have to care about at some point~

Laser? Well if you like them, personally i prefer drills, more exact, doesn't destroy ores, etc. I haven't seen too many people using Mining lasers instead of drills actually.

 

[stickmansam1]

L

Lava doesn't last forever See thats the big diff, solar you set and never care about _ever_ lava you actually have to care about at some point~

Laser? Well if you like them, personally i prefer drills, more exact, doesn't destroy ores, etc. I haven't seen too many people using Mining lasers instead of drills actually.

lava pillar from sea level to sky limit and the machine is still pumping lava is not infinite but it last for a long time and solar does not put out much and the laser is epic i dont like waiting for the blast furnace and centrifuge and gregtech to me changes the IC tree making easy stuff harder than later levels when i got my drill all i wanted was all ther iron i used searching the nether for hours at this point i would have settled for an expendable iron pick over a realy expensive electric iron pick.

 

[Pinkishu]

Well I didn't really understand half of what you said there Sure it lasts a while, that why you decide between a bit more expensive solar but infinite and a cheaper lava but having to get it and eventually replace pump and such.~

And well matterfabs can use up lava quite quickly

 

[Oodain]

some features will definetaly be disabled when i play, storage blocks is one of them, we have people that barely touch a machine, they still need to build in a way familiar to them.

 

[diggerjohn99]

I have given it a few days to figure out Greg tech, and i have to honestly admit i was quite wrong to trash them. Their machines are actually quite good, I just wish they were a bit more intuitive. But my rage was that of a noob, and was clearly unfounded. I sincerely apologize to the modders and the FTB community as a whole. If you are still having trouble with Greg tech, give it a chance. They have some really awesome machines, you just need to be patient.

 

[Bluehorazon]

Another point is, that FTB only uses 1.4.2 Gregs, which has some issues (Mining-Laser is too cheap and it lacks a good blastfurnace with more easy access).

In 1.4.5 you can mine Iridium in the End (well it is not that abundant, but it will be enough for the Matter-Fabricator), you can create a BlastFurnace without Magma-Cream, the Jackhammer is a replacement for the early drill (although it can only destroy stone, it is good at this), Grinder, BlastFurnace and Centrifuge work quite well with each other.

Nerfing the "Fire&Forget"-EU-Generators is a good motivation to build auto-feeding Generators or Geothermals or even a nuclear power-plant.

 

[Oodain]

there are definately some areas where gregtech improves upon the original, solar generator recipe is one of them, the nerf to nano and quantum armor is also very nice.
matter fabrication was also a bit easy on resources before and all with a ton of other brilliant content,
my only real beef is that with the armor nerf, why was gravisuite still included, granted flying will drain it fairly fast but actually taking dammage in it follows the tendency of the previously invincible armors.

something like storage blocks are simply used far too much by people that dont want to deal with machinery.
that said a config file is all that is needed.

 

[makeshiftwings]

Why do people who think the intro drill is "OMG OP" think the Jackhammer is ok? Mining through stone quickly was the whole point of the iron drill, since stone blocks are mostly what is in your way. Ore blocks are comparitively rare and I don't think anyone minds mining those 0.1 seconds slower; it's the 0.1 seconds per stone block that actually add up to meaningful slowdown. The Jackhammer doesn't seem like a "balanced" iron drill; it's just a slightly more annoying iron drill since you swap to your pick for a second when you hit ore and then swap back. How is that "challenging" enough that it validates messing with someone else's mod?

 

[BanzaiBlitz]

Without having yet tried the jackhammer myself, I would note that the OP part of the mining drill earning it's increased requirements is due to it being unbreakable and infinite uses as long as you have it charged.

Also, take a step back and consider how much advancement any of these mods provide to vanilla minecraft. It is all OP in a sense and a substantial portion of the machines have you going through at least a few hoops for the time savings later or special uses it provides.

And above all, you are not forced to play with Gregtech. The launcher makes it a breeze to select and then remove it from the modpack one time and it won't bother you further. Consider if you are trying to present a sound logical argument or simply trying to argue and be contrarian.

 

[WTFFFS]

Why do people who think the intro drill is "OMG OP" think the Jackhammer is ok? Mining through stone quickly was the whole point of the iron drill, since stone blocks are mostly what is in your way. Ore blocks are comparitively rare and I don't think anyone minds mining those 0.1 seconds slower; it's the 0.1 seconds per stone block that actually add up to meaningful slowdown. The Jackhammer doesn't seem like a "balanced" iron drill; it's just a slightly more annoying iron drill since you swap to your pick for a second when you hit ore and then swap back. How is that "challenging" enough that it validates messing with someone else's mod?

An annoyance you can fix later with more work is called advancement, advancing your abilities is called challenge.

 

[makeshiftwings]

Without having yet tried the jackhammer myself, I would note that the OP part of the mining drill earning it's increased requirements is due to it being unbreakable and infinite uses as long as you have it charged.

Also, take a step back and consider how much advancement any of these mods provide to vanilla minecraft. It is all OP in a sense and a substantial portion of the machines have you going through at least a few hoops for the time savings later or special uses it provides.

And above all, you are not forced to play with Gregtech. The launcher makes it a breeze to select and then remove it from the modpack one time and it won't bother you further. Consider if you are trying to present a sound logical argument or simply trying to argue and be contrarian.

I'm pretty sure the jackhammer is also unbreakable and infinite, so that can't be it.[DOUBLEPOST=1355013783][/DOUBLEPOST]

An annoyance you can fix later with more work is called advancement, advancing your abilities is called challenge.

You should google "ProgressQuest". It fits your definition of challenge exactly; I think you'll enjoy it.

 

[BanzaiBlitz]

I'm pretty sure the jackhammer is also unbreakable and infinite, so that can't be it.

You missed the point. As a tool, it will be rechargeable and infinite, however as it will be pretty much stone only (based on what people have said), that is why it is placed as such rather than the iron drill being so early. Even in that sense, a jackhammer is relative to how easy just smashing rocks is while ores and valuable things need more care and effort to properly acquire.

 

[makeshiftwings]

You missed the point. As a tool, it will be rechargeable and infinite, however as it will be pretty much stone only (based on what people have said), that is why it is placed as such rather than the iron drill being so early. Even in that sense, a jackhammer is relative to how easy just smashing rocks is while ores and valuable things need more care and effort to properly acquire.

But stone and dirt are the main things that you drill through. That was what was good about the intro drill. For every one block of ore that you click on, you click on like 20+ stone or dirt, so that's where the extra speed is useful. I definitely don't see enough difference between the two that anyone would say the jackhammer is fine but the drill is OP.