GregTech Has Gone Too far

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KirinDave

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I don't understand why nobody loves challenges... I guess you love the watering can from extra utils that "isn't" OP in any way ? Or the quarry with just a diamond pick instead of advanced diamond drill?



I like challenges. I just like real, sincere, rewarding challenges. And I tend to make these myself. Some aspects of what greg does are enjoyable to me, but many times I feel like I'm required to do a bunch of things I have no interest in to progress to the parts that I do have interest in. Many other mods are not structured in such a long, linear tech tree and as such give you access to a diverse tree of features without a lot of grinding.

A good example of a fairly strong approach here is Forestry. Forestry has several long and involved grinding mechanics in it (totemic example: bees), but it gives you access to reduced power versions fairly quickly and lets you refine those as required. There are tech trees in Forestry, but for the most part is designed around increasing. And to be honest, just walking a mod's tech tree is boring to me. No mod really holds up long like this. This is why a lot of us want to play mixed mod games in modpacks. I can keep nearly every recipe for GT in my head if I want, but the sheer combinatoric explosion of mod interactions is nearly impossible to ever fully understand, and is always changing.

So I ask you, MoltenX. Why don't you like a challenge?

P.S., why is the watering can OP, anyways? Any time a player has to sit around doing repetitive tasks in a world where the automation options are so good, they'd better get rewarded heavily.
 
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DoctorOr

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Forestry made the bees literally explode destroying blocks an anything in the path of explosion.

So does a creeper. And just like a creeper, the bees only did it while the player was near.

Greg did nothing bad to the actual worlds, he just prevented users from playing them (for a few hours).

Greg intentionally terminated the Minecraft in a crash and then publicly claimed the crash was caused by Tinker's Construct. He and his sycophants are now retconning the events to try and claim it was just a test release anyways so "it's no big thing" and he was "going to change it back anyways", which continues a trail of examples of Greg not taking responsibility for his own bugs and issues.

So no, it's a much deeper problem then "preventing users from playing" - which is itself unacceptable.
 

MoltenX

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Someone crazy might make addon for computer craft, and make a watering can available on a turtle XD
 

KirinDave

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Someone crazy might make addon for computer craft, and make a watering can available on a turtle XD


You can already automate it via a variety of mods, making it a worse Lilypad of Fertility or xysoil stack. So what?

Like wheat wasn't already easy to rapidly farm via forestry farms or MFR farms.
 

MoltenX

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You can already automate it via a variety of mods, making it a worse Lilypad of Fertility or xysoil stack. So what?

Like wheat wasn't already easy to rapidly farm via forestry farms or MFR farms.
Example: it works with oreberry bushes ;d ... If Red Power get updated, one deployer is enough to take the berries from the bushes, or MFR Harvesters... they also take it
 

RedBoss

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Greg did nothing bad to the actual worlds, he just prevented users from playing them (for a few hours).
That fact is the entire issue. Players should not be caught in the crossfire of modder's squabbles. He's violated an inherent trust in his work as a mod dev. We trust that this code will probably be buggy, but never malicious. Crashing a game on purpose is malicious.
 

Hoho

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Config options water the game down. As Flowerchild put it "how can I design for the mod if there are untold numbers of different ways that mod can be set up? I can think of an idea and go "Oh that's really cool!" but then I think "oh, but it doesn't work for people not using this config option. How can I design for the game if there are multiple versions of the game being used? And I only have 2 config options!"
Yes, I've seen the videos where he has discussed his opinions about mods and games in general and have heard him saying this on several occasions.

While I generally do agree with parts of what he told I do not agree with having configs as a bad thing. Greg designs his mod according to defaults and is fairly well balanced (in his and many other people opinion). If there are people that don't like some of his choises he has added the possibility for those players to configure the mod to their liking. It's sort of like having multiple mods in one, with each player finding something in there, really.
additional increase in cost with 0 change to functionality adds nothing to the value.
You clearly don't understand why games have difficulty options and are still missing the point about vanilla game itself being unbalanced.
thats the first thing I changed when I was using GT, if I was chatting to one of my kids or wife while playing then I would not be in danger of blowing up my base if not giving game 100%
I've heard roofs are rather popular now :)
I'm not talking about in one day :p. I'm talking about in an unlimited amount of time. It's a bad analogy, but it gets the point across. GregTech makes things take longer, not make things more challenging.
Your example would have been better had you used jogging a couple of kms vs a marathon instead. First is done by millions of people daily, other is something you actually feel accomplished when you complete it.
Well the FTB crew said they would not include gregtech unless he removed the code that crashes the client. Next release will have it taken out. Perhaps old gregy realizes he went a tad too far?
The code got removed soon after greg woke up today and existed for a whole total of less than a day.
I don't use BC/EUtils. I consider them OP, but that's just me :p.
In similar vein many people consider non-GT adjusted stuff OP. Different people like different scale for balance. Luckily GT allows everyone to choose that level. Most mods don't do that :)
So does a creeper. And just like a creeper, the bees only did it while the player was near.
You can hear a creeper coming and are at fault yourself if you have it destroy your stuff.
So no, it's a much deeper problem then "preventing users from playing" - which is itself unacceptable.
Railcraft also has code that prevents users running MC if it detects certain other mods.
 

KirinDave

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Example: it works with oreberry bushes ;d ...

Are you saying by standing around repeatedly clicking I can get metals and occasionally the tool breaks and I need to do something slightly different before resuming clicking? As opposed to... say... branch mining?

Honestly. Most of the objections you and Greg raise are thematic. Like, Greg has transmutation blocks, but because they have a pseudoscience theme and use his pseudoscience power rules, they're somehow "challenging and realistic." Mechanically they are not very different.

MFR Harvesters... they also take it

They do. It's sort of like centrifuging lava. Oh yeah, remember that? How you can take an infinite resource and convert it into huge sums of metals using Gregtech and the entire mod balances around the fact that you can have effectively infinite copper, tin, silver and gold by consuming copious sums of lava? The difference is the MFR build can't be as compact because it requires in-world entities to maximize efficiency.

I'd ask you how it's different but that'd be rhetorical. It is not different. Lots of resources-from-nothing, resources-from-dirt, and resources-from-power methods exist. GT is in/famous for making many of these quite accessible and even required.
 

Grydian2

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The code got removed soon after greg woke up today and existed for a whole total of less than a day.

He still did it and only removed it after Wyld told him he would not be included in anymore updates. I've read the forum posts. You have a funny way of justifying crashing the game because he doesnt like what a mod author does. Its so childish its unbelievable.
 

DoctorOr

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Railcraft also has code that prevents users running MC if it detects certain other mods.

Actually, no. It has code to detect if a signed java jar file is modified. Given the context of "Minecraft, a game", such a feature exceeds necessity and CovertJaguar is at fault for adding it.

It's also AFAIK only functional in 1.4, because it only works with one mod, which hasn't updated past 1.4. So not terribly relevant.
 

Hydra

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The code got removed soon after greg woke up today and existed for a whole total of less than a day.


It just shows the kind of 'programmer' he is. It doesn't matter that he reverted the change. By putting it in in the first place he shows he has no respect whatsoever for his users.


He still did it and only removed it after Wyld told him he would not be included in anymore updates. I've read the forum posts. You have a funny way of justifying crashing the game because he doesnt like what a mod author does. Its so childish its unbelievable.

I'm a professional programmer (or well, used to before I moved to sales) and doing something like that in a professional environment gets you fired on the spot AND you would be liable for any damages. Aside from this it's simply incredible unethical. There's no difference at all between stealing someone's money and wasting their time on purpose.
 

Grydian2

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Actually according to twitter not only was the code not removed wyld told you this as well... Why are you repeating incorrect information Hoho?[DOUBLEPOST=1374085048][/DOUBLEPOST]
It just shows the kind of 'programmer' he is. It doesn't matter that he reverted the change. By putting it in in the first place he shows he has no respect whatsoever for his users.
Actually hono is lying. Greg did not remove the code and has been told so on twitter.
 

Hoho

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They do. It's sort of like centrifuging lava. Oh yeah, remember that? How you can take an infinite resource and convert it into huge sums of metals using Gregtech and the entire mod balances around the fact that you can have effectively infinite copper, tin, silver and gold by consuming copious sums of lava?
GT requires lots of tin and copper? That's news even though I've played it extensively for a bit over a year now.
He still did it and only removed it after Wyld told him he would not be included in anymore updates. I've read the forum posts. You have a funny way of justifying crashing the game because he doesnt like what a mod author does. Its so childish its unbelievable.
If you noticed I've never said crashing was in any way a good solution.
It's also AFAIK only functional in 1.4, because it only works with one mod, which hasn't updated past 1.4. So not terribly relevant.
It checks for other mods too besides just RP2 and I'm quite certain it is ported to 1.5.
 

KirinDave

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I'm a professional programmer (or well, used to before I moved to sales) and doing something like that in a professional environment gets you fired on the spot AND you would be liable for any damages. Aside from this it's simply incredible unethical. There's no difference at all between stealing someone's money and wasting their time on purpose.


It's actually a felony to do this in the US, btw. The law is sorta absurd, but the way it's worded then deliberately sabotaging a product or crashing someone else's product can get you thrown in jail. Quite literally, people have killed themselves rather than face the penalty for doing less damaging things than this.
 

Hydra

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Actually hono is lying. Greg did not remove the code and has been told so on twitter.


Then it's even worse. He's not just disrespectful, he's a liar to boot. Yeah, that's someone I want to have software from on my machine. Not.
 

Hoho

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Actually according to twitter not only was the code not removed wyld told you this as well... Why are you repeating incorrect information Hoho?[DOUBLEPOST=1374085048][/DOUBLEPOST]
Actually hono is lying. Greg did not remove the code and has been told so on twitter.
Funny, we both have the same sources and came to different conclusions.
 

KirinDave

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GT requires lots of tin and copper? That's news even though I've played it extensively for a bit over a year now.
If you noticed I've never said crashing was in any way a good solution.

Derp on you for not building reactors, I guess.[DOUBLEPOST=1374085279][/DOUBLEPOST]
Funny, we both have the same sources and came to different conclusions.


It is almost like someone has an agenda which involves interpreting the situation in a wildly different way.
 
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