GregTech Has Gone Too far

[SonOfABirch]

Dire didn't want it as he thought it would prolong the startup-progression. Though I can't really consider that as valid as he spends a whole lot of time mining offline and has chests full of extra materials just after a few episodes anyway.

Actually I'm fairly certain his reason was that he wanted to play the mods as their makers intended them to be played. He is friends with a large number of mod makers.. it would be a bit awkward if he was talking to them
"Oh Dire, how did you like that X feature"
"oh well I didn't actually use it, Greg nerfed it into obscurity so I used Y modders Z feature instead"


Minecraft, and modded minecraft even moreso, is NOT about progression. It's "heres the tools, now have fun and do what you want" Trying to shoehorn a progression system into that (unless you're damn good at coding/design[Flowerchild]) is NOT going to work. Greg fanboys may love it because progression and tedium is exactly what they want. But Gregs idea of how the game should work does not fit with mine.

 

[KirinDave]

Actually I'm fairly certain his reason was that he wanted to play the mods as their makers intended them to be played. He is friends with a large number of mod makers.. it would be a bit awkward if he was talking to them
"Oh Dire, how did you like that X feature"
"oh well I didn't actually use it, Greg nerfed it into obscurity so I used Y modders Z feature instead"

Indeed. This is where I sort of side with Greg. Short of exploding bees or lame "I lost the debate but I can still torture you, Immibis, because it's important to my fragile ego that I feel like I won" gestures like the Pumpkin of Shame, modders should not really get to feel protective of their work.

Dear modder, are you modding into someone else's game in a way where the user can assemble ad hoc packs? Have you considered the consequences of this for your work? If it still bothers you then go do something else. I'm busy reading every line of RP2's codebase because there is no way anyone can stop me, so we can talk later, I guess.

 

[Hoho]

No. Sengir did some "bad things", but there was no blowing up of worlds and nothing comparable to intentionally crashing the game like Greg has done.

Forestry made the bees literally explode destroying blocks an anything in the path of explosion. Greg did nothing bad to the actual worlds, he just prevented users from playing them (for a few hours).

i`m equating tediousness with length of the progression line. if it takes too long for me to get from point A to point B, i`ll notice that tedium and that`s gonna annoy me. if ride is too fast i`ll consider progression too easy.

if i`m not mistaken, stone tools were nerfed, and iron tool has been increased in price. which means he just made iron tools to look cooler than the were. i see no achievement here.

First of all the stone tools were the same except for ~1/3rd durability and iron pick require one extra ingot (equal if you have plate bender) and a bit of durability on file and hammer. Its durability is the same as in vanilla. It's a bit more expensive but nothing major and you'll need the file and hammer anyway to progress with GT.

Getting an iron pickaxe is now a far bigger deal than it used to be when stone one was pretty much just as good. Yes, this was achieved by making the stone one comparably worse than in vanilla but, as I said before, I consider the vanilla "tech" tree imbalanced. Take look at any other mod out there that dares to change the pickaxe progression and you'll see quite similar changes.

Actually I'm fairly certain his reason was that he wanted to play the mods as their makers intended them to be played. He is friends with a large number of mod makers.. it would be a bit awkward if he was talking to them
"Oh Dire, how did you like that X feature"
"oh well I didn't actually use it, Greg nerfed it into obscurity so I used Y modders Z feature instead"

Literally the only feature that one could have discussed like that was forestry bronze nerf (that wasn't really a nerf considering IC2 used originally the same recipe as GT now). The current ones all have config options.

 

[MoltenX]

Greg Tech is awesome mod, that gives you challenge in the world, with a chance of blowing your world and if you are careful enough it will be fine.

 

[SonOfABirch]

Config options water the game down. As Flowerchild put it "how can I design for the mod if there are untold numbers of different ways that mod can be set up? I can think of an idea and go "Oh that's really cool!" but then I think "oh, but it doesn't work for people not using this config option. How can I design for the game if there are multiple versions of the game being used? And I only have 2 config options!"

^not a direct quote but it's as close as I can remember (it was a youtube vid, I might try find it)
I know Flowerchild isn't the most popular person around here, but you have to admit he has a bloody good point!

Using "there are config options" is a horrible, old, and tired excuse put forth by the lazy.

 

[Symmetryc]

Greg Tech is awesome mod, that gives you challenge in the world, with a chance of blowing your world and if you are careful enough it will be fine.

No...it just makes it more grindy. It's like doing 500 push ups vs 1000000 push ups. The latter is not a challenge, you'll just have to exercise daily for x amount of days longer.

 

[Loufmier]

Getting an iron pickaxe is now a far bigger deal than it used to be when stone one was pretty much just as good. Yes, this was achieved by making the stone one comparably worse than in vanilla but, as I said before, I consider the vanilla "tech" tree imbalanced. Take look at any other mod out there that dares to change the pickaxe progression and you'll see quite similar changes.

additional increase in cost with 0 change to functionality adds nothing to the value.

 

[Jakeb]

No...it just makes it more grindy. It's like doing 500 push ups vs 1000000 push ups. The latter is not a challenge, you'll just have to exercise daily for x amount of days longer.

Most people I know would have a problem doing 1 million push ups. Just putting that out there.

 

[egor66]

Greg Tech is awesome mod, that gives you challenge in the world, with a chance of blowing your world and if you are careful enough it will be fine.

thats the first thing I changed when I was using GT, if I was chatting to one of my kids or wife while playing then I would not be in danger of blowing up my base if not giving game 100%

In truth when I did use GT I configed it to suit me if offline or played ad hoc & talked to admin about features if online.

 

[MoltenX]

No...it just makes it more grindy. It's like doing 500 push ups vs 1000000 push ups. The latter is not a challenge, you'll just have to exercise daily for x amount of days longer.

I don't understand why nobody loves challenges... I guess you love the watering can from extra utils that "isn't" OP in any way ? Or the quarry with just a diamond pick instead of advanced diamond drill?

 

[Symmetryc]

Most people I know would have a problem doing 1 million push ups. Just putting that out there.

I'm not talking about in one day . I'm talking about in an unlimited amount of time. It's a bad analogy, but it gets the point across. GregTech makes things take longer, not make things more challenging.

 

[Grydian2]

Well the FTB crew said they would not include gregtech unless he removed the code that crashes the client. Next release will have it taken out. Perhaps old gregy realizes he went a tad too far?

 

[Symmetryc]

I don't understand why nobody loves challenges... I guess you love the watering can from extra utils that "isn't" OP in any way ? Or the quarry with just a diamond pick instead of advanced diamond drill?

I don't use BC/EUtils. I consider them OP, but that's just me .

 

[MoltenX]

I don't use BC/EUtils. I consider them OP, but that's just me .

BC Gives you a way to get more materials and yes, without greg tech it is a bit OP.

 

[SonOfABirch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rUM9106sH8E

skip to 7 minutes.

 

[Loufmier]

I'm not talking about in one day . I'm talking about in an unlimited amount of time. It's a bad analogy, but it gets the point across. GregTech makes things take longer, not make things more challenging.

i have a better one:
imagine you`re a cleaner. your assignment is to clean a toilet. you have a big brush that you use for this task, and everything is fine. then comes greg, takes away your brush a gives you a toothbrush. and you`re doing same task, but it just takes longer to finish.

I don't understand why nobody loves challenges... I guess you love the watering can from extra utils that "isn't" OP in any way ? Or the quarry with just a diamond pick instead of advanced diamond drill?

if you consider gt a challenge i have a bad news for you.

 

[Chocorate]

additional increase in cost with 0 change to functionality adds nothing to the value.

Well it's a lot easier to change and lower numbers. You can't expect too much, man.

 

[KirinDave]

No...it just makes it more grindy. It's like doing 500 push ups vs 1000000 push ups. The latter is not a challenge, you'll just have to exercise daily for x amount of days longer.

I love how the principle argument for gregtech is that detractors either do not understand new features, or are just "bad players" who are "not careful." The idea that the design itself might not be very strong or that there are multiple minecraft playstyles isn't even considered.

 

[Loufmier]

Well it's a lot easier to change and lower numbers. You can't expect too much, man.

yep, you`re right. but it still bugs me...

anyway, here is some food to chew:
i think most of us know, that RC have drastically changed creation of standard MC rails, however it also increased output of those rails.
that`s what i call a change with added value.

 

[egor66]

Well the FTB crew said they would not include gregtech unless he removed the code that crashes the client. Next release will have it taken out. Perhaps old gregy realizes he went a tad too far?

Mdyio removed his code that greg refers to as the hack so it would follow in an ideal world greg would do so too but I have not checked to see if thats the case yet.

PS Hoho props dude for coming to what must be a hostile environment & posing questions & apposing views in an a civil fashion, I may not agree with all but I have gained respect for you efforts & some of your views GG.
Pps the maturity shown by 99% of the forumers is admirable, not all forums could pull this off, there is hope for man kind after all.